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Schizoid or Avoidant?

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Schizoid or Avoidant?

Postby CityMouse » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:23 pm

I was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder. I believe I have maladaptive daydreams, but my shrink said it's hearing voices, that voices can be like waking dreams. I'm not bipolar, I'm never depressed, so I don't know why I got this diagnosis.

Schizoid:

1. Vengeful fantasies (but I always lose the imaginary fights big time)
2. Like myself, don't feel inadequate
3. Usually don't feel the need to socialize
4. Completely unable to express anger

Avoidant:

1. Sometimes think of socializing but get scared
2. Very easily hurt or flattered
3. Maladaptive daydreams involving being criticized, left feeling emotionally wounded

What do you think?
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Re: Schizoid or Avoidant?

Postby Holodeck » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:31 pm

From what I understand schizoaffective disorder is schizophrenia + a mood disorder.

Schizoid was coined to describe people with unusual but distinctive personality characteristics that resemble and have a high percentage of turning schizotypal as well as schizophrenic. This was back in 1980.

CityMouse wrote:I believe I have maladaptive daydreams, but my shrink said it's hearing voices, that voices can be like waking dreams.


Many many many people who aren't schizoid do this. It isn't solely a schizoid thing. Do you in fact hear voices? When I use this coping mechnism I don't, but rather do it sorta like an extreme version of imaginary friends/worlds. I can separate reality from the fiction. I don't see or hear anything that isn't there, but when I do it I often feel as if I feel the presence of whatever it is I'm imagining. Call it focused meditation I guess.

CityMouse wrote:I'm not bipolar, I'm never depressed, so I don't know why I got this diagnosis.


Not feeling anything is a symptom of depression. Anhedonia (not getting much/any pleasure out of anything) is a major sign.

CityMouse wrote:Schizoid:

2. Like myself, don't feel inadequate


I thought schizoids typically felt inadequate. Can someone fill me in here?

Other than emotional inadequacy (in the sense of I wish I could properly display/feel emotion around others), I have a good amount of confidence in myself. Also keep in mind you don't have to fit every single symptom.

CityMouse wrote:4. Completely unable to express anger


I can express it, but I don't feel it. I can get a adrenaline rush with a good rant, so sometimes I'll act more pissed off than I am. I don't pick fights, but I'm pretty good at verbally getting my point across. Not in a "I need to speak to the manager" way, but more of a calmly talking to the person as they self destruct. That's when I tell them how they can do self improvement. If they critique me, I get all "I know right?! I totally do that $#!^! Haha aren't I incorrigible?!"

Admittedly it helps that I'm an attractive, racially ambiguous, woman in 2018.

CityMouse wrote:3. Maladaptive daydreams involving being criticized, left feeling emotionally wounded


I read elsewhere where someone said their MDing went like this. I don't know where the post is, but they were another zoid. I MD, and sometimes with this theme. It's more like how some say they are needing to watch a sad movie to have a good cry I think. More than 75% of the time though it's related to good feelz.

CityMouse wrote:What do you think?


I personally think a good chunk of zoids start off as AvPD. I did. Over time it calloused tremendously to have me become an android.
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Re: Schizoid or Avoidant?

Postby naps » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:31 pm

Holodeck wrote:I thought schizoids typically felt inadequate. Can someone fill me in here?


As far as the posters here go, I don't see too much of a pattern of perceived inadequacy. It's avoidants who feel inadequate. If anything, I've seen more people here with the "I'm OK with my PD" mindset than in any of the other PD forums.

This may be somewhat delusional, since schizoids are certainly socially inadequate, but I don't think 'inadequate' is the right word. Defined as lacking the quality or quantity required; insufficient for a purpose, feeling inadequate would imply that we require social activity, when the opposite is true.

Admittedly it helps that I'm an attractive, racially ambiguous, woman in 2018.


Does this mean you can change color at will?

I personally think a good chunk of zoids start off as AvPD. I did. Over time it calloused tremendously to have me become an android.


I don't think it's this simple. I had avoidant traits but I don't think they hardened into schizoid traits; the schizoid traits were there all along. The avoidant traits ebbed as I came to terms with the events of my childhood and reclaimed my self-esteem, which had been wrestled away from me.

Schizoid:

1. Vengeful fantasies (but I always lose the imaginary fights big time)
2. Like myself, don't feel inadequate
3. Usually don't feel the need to socialize
4. Completely unable to express anger


Some of these are not quite right. Schizoid fantasies are not always vengeful, if at all. It's not uncommon for schizoids, but it's not uncommon for anybody. And it's not an inability to express anger, or other emotions, it's a lack of affect.
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Re: Schizoid or Avoidant?

Postby Holodeck » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:43 pm

naps wrote:
Holodeck wrote:I thought schizoids typically felt inadequate. Can someone fill me in here?


As far as the posters here go, I don't see too much of a pattern of perceived inadequacy. It's avoidants who feel inadequate. If anything, I've seen more people here with the "I'm OK with my PD" mindset than in any of the other PD forums.

This may be somewhat delusional, since schizoids are certainly socially inadequate, but I don't think 'inadequate' is the right word. Defined as lacking the quality or quantity required; insufficient for a purpose, feeling inadequate would imply that we require social activity, when the opposite is true.


I'm going to have to assume this theory I'm about to say, because it doesn't apply to me much.

My thought is it may be/seem like there isn't inadequacy due to people feeling more in control when posting online due to anonymity.

For me I'm socially adequate, but due to not being able to mirror people well and not feeling emotions when I'm near folks...I often forget to react ways I later realize I should have. I've had people get upset with me before, and go off on sermonettes about how one shouldn't "react like that" and how I should at least look like I pretend to care.

When it comes to emotions I definitely feel inadequate. For whatever reason my brain builds a emotion proof walls when around people, so that I can feel bad how I act around them later. If I apologize, they usually act as if they don't believe me.

Admittedly it helps that I'm an attractive, racially ambiguous, woman in 2018.


Does this mean you can change color at will?


Pretty much. My skin tone works like the fur of an arctic fox. I'm white as paste in the winter, but if I'm out in the sun for 20 minutes after starting like that I go from porcelain straight to medium tan. I have dark, naturally curly hair that I typically keep straightened so I won't break brushes. If I get it wet, it automatically curls. My eyes are dark. Facial bone structure is French according to lots who feel the need to guess what my nationality is. This was especially fun around 9/11 right after summer all nice and tan. I'm Irish with a bit of German somehow. I've been told I look like I'm *insert any European nationality here*, Middle Eastern, Native American, Mexican...pretty much anything or a mix of. Except black, though I did get asked if I was half-black growing up due to moronic bullies who thought it was funny.

When people ask I tell them I'm racially agnostic. We believe there's a race, but we have no proof of it.

the schizoid traits were there all along. The avoidant traits ebbed as I came to terms with the events of my childhood and reclaimed my self-esteem, which had been wrestled away from me.


Could you elaborate on what your schizoid traits were there from the beginning? I don't think I had any schizoid traits, though I did have avoidant ones like crazy. Could easily be simply a different lives thing though. I do agree with the rest you wrote though.
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Re: Schizoid or Avoidant?

Postby naps » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:05 pm

Don't get me wrong, I consider myself socially inadequate. It's just that I don't see it as a problem. Avoidants want social interaction, but any attempts to achieve this are impeded by feelings of inadequacy, and that understandably frustrates them. It's all about how inadequacy is self-perceived.

My thought is it may be/seem like there isn't inadequacy due to people feeling more in control when posting online due to anonymity.


Well there's the rub: you have to take into account when reading posts here that some people may not be honest, with themselves or otherwise. There's no way to circumvent that unless you've been posting here a while and have gotten to know some of the other posters well. I do think this goes on less here than in most of the PD forums. Look at AsPD. Everyone there's a psychopath.

Holodeck wrote:Pretty much. My skin tone works like the fur of an arctic fox. I'm white as paste in the winter, but if I'm out in the sun for 20 minutes after starting like that I go from porcelain straight to medium tan. I have dark, naturally curly hair that I typically keep straightened so I won't break brushes. If I get it wet, it automatically curls. My eyes are dark. Facial bone structure is French according to lots who feel the need to guess what my nationality is. This was especially fun around 9/11 right after summer all nice and tan. I'm Irish with a bit of German somehow. I've been told I look like I'm *insert any European nationality here*, Middle Eastern, Native American, Mexican...pretty much anything or a mix of. Except black, though I did get asked if I was half-black growing up due to moronic bullies who thought it was funny.

When people ask I tell them I'm racially agnostic. We believe there's a race, but we have no proof of it.


Image

There was a joke on The Daily Show a while back about people being given paint sample strips in order to determine their voting eligibility in the red states.

Could you elaborate on what your schizoid traits were there from the beginning?


As a kid I always preferred solitude. It wasn't until my mid twenties that I began to need it. I'm pretty good about being covert, and I suspect there is an unrelated reason for this, but there were many times as a child when I felt (or was told) my emotional response to things fell short. For example, at my grandmother's funeral my brother was crying and all I could think of was "She was old and sick and made the house smell like poo. Why is everyone so upset?". I was always daydreaming. Much more than the average child.
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Re: Schizoid or Avoidant?

Postby anathegram » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:11 pm

CityMouse wrote:Vengeful fantasies (but I always lose the imaginary fights big time)

You mentioned this before. I don't really get it. How do you lose an imaginary fight?

Holodeck wrote:I thought schizoids typically felt inadequate. Can someone fill me in here?

As far as I know the AvPD-esque "inadequacy" in question here refers to feeling like you aren't good enough for other people. I don't think that is a typical schizoid experience.
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Re: Schizoid or Avoidant?

Postby naps » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:17 pm

SkeletonWarDraftee wrote:As far as I know the AvPD-esque "inadequacy" in question here refers to feeling like you aren't good enough for other people. I don't think that is a typical schizoid experience.


It's the opposite. People aren't good enough for us!
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Re: Schizoid or Avoidant?

Postby EmpathySucks » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:30 pm

Continue with your therapy I guess. There's not much we can do here. People here (who I assume are diagnosed) agreed with my experiences of SPD but at times I'm not sure if it's correct or not.

I've been putting off the therapy part but at times it feels like there's too many cogs to care about, trusting one therapist might be a mistake.

naps wrote:socially inadequete

Me too. But I'm not sure if I'm actually that socially inadequate as a caricature might suggest; I'm more the "forget about them while at home" type. I've tried making friends before but always felt like they're.. alien to me. Today someone at work described a party; I felt like I should belong there but I know that once I'll get there I won't feel part of it. Strange.
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Re: Schizoid or Avoidant?

Postby CityMouse » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:49 pm

SkeletonWarDraftee wrote:
CityMouse wrote:Vengeful fantasies (but I always lose the imaginary fights big time)

You mentioned this before. I don't really get it. How do you lose an imaginary fight?


Happens all the time. My daydreams are not deliberately conjured up. They just pop into my mind automatically, as if they emerged from my subconscious. I get aggressive and then a group of imaginary authority figures like Dr. Phil or Dr. Drew will try to make me look stupid. Or my ex bf who was emotionally abusive and way more aggressive than I could ever hope to be will enter the picture to sabotage my efforts to defend my honor.
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Re: Schizoid or Avoidant?

Postby Holodeck » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:39 pm

By inadequate I mean that schizoids are known for:

Compliance, being non-competitive, lacking assertiveness, feeling inferior and an outsider, inauthentic, the list goes on, but my favorite being the hidden grandiosity. Let's face it. Chances are that happens after thinking oneself is the best and everyone else sucks, while being away from people.

^All of that sounds like someone who feels at least somewhat inferior, and definitely down in the dumps.


naps wrote:Don't get me wrong, I consider myself socially inadequate. It's just that I don't see it as a problem. Avoidants want social interaction, but any attempts to achieve this are impeded by feelings of inadequacy, and that understandably frustrates them. It's all about how inadequacy is self-perceived.


Yeah and maybe that's a trait I kept. I dunno. I got rid of a speech impediment brought on by a hearing issue now fixed, moved out of a trope of a backward redneck town, went through a ton of BS that made me realize my threshold of $#!^ I could take. I don't feel inadequate anymore more other than that one major bit of me that's been missing. Mood stabilizer meds do seem to be helping though, so that's good at least.

My thought is it may be/seem like there isn't inadequacy due to people feeling more in control when posting online due to anonymity.


Well there's the rub: you have to take into account when reading posts here that some people may not be honest, with themselves or otherwise. There's no way to circumvent that unless you've been posting here a while and have gotten to know some of the other posters well. I do think this goes on less here than in most of the PD forums. Look at AsPD. Everyone there's a psychopath.


I agree, but...in a lot of ways people posting anonymously are being a bit more truthful. Not saying everyone is telling the truth for a long shot, but I feel most don't hold back as much. There are ways to tell when people aren't as truthful, have identity issues, or are straight up deluded. Whichever way though, it's typically pretty easy over time to figure out who people are based on how they type, and figure out their motives in similar ways. Like you said though, you do have to get to know them.

There was a joke on The Daily Show a while back about people being given paint sample strips in order to determine their voting eligibility in the red states.


Winter over here gets to a chilly 70ish degrees. Gee didn't realize that's why I voted like that. :roll:

Could you elaborate on what your schizoid traits were there from the beginning?


As a kid I always preferred solitude. It wasn't until my mid twenties that I began to need it. I'm pretty good about being covert, and I suspect there is an unrelated reason for this, but there were many times as a child when I felt (or was told) my emotional response to things fell short. For example, at my grandmother's funeral my brother was crying and all I could think of was "She was old and sick and made the house smell like poo. Why is everyone so upset?". I was always daydreaming. Much more than the average child.

[/quote]

I preferred solitude rather than my parents or bullies. My parents would send me off to day camps a bunch. The camps were always out of town, since the only thing to do in my home town as a kid was hang out at Wal-Mart. The out of town kids were easier to hang out with, but I knew we wouldn't stay friends because I lived over an hour away. I had three friends as a kid. Two were gone by kindergarten (They were kids of women my mom worked with), and the other drifted when he went to different school at around 13 years old. When I was in high school I got a bit more social due to being home-schooled. My parents were shocked that I was begging to go back to school. I had been a mute for over three years due to fuked up bullying, and a couple years after I started speaking again I was wanting to be a normal kid.

I don't ever recall getting upset about death, but I pretty much hate/not care much about everyone in my family and most people from my childhood.

I was also always daydreaming. I had a walkman I'd take outside with me when I'd go shoot hoops in my backyard, ride my bike, or be in the garage. In every one of those areas I'd walk in a circle and talk/mutter to myself. When I'd get caught and called on it, I'd tell my parents I was saying lyrics. I doubt they ever believed me, but they didn't make me answer any more questions.

EmpathySucks wrote:Me too. But I'm not sure if I'm actually that socially inadequate as a caricature might suggest; I'm more the "forget about them while at home" type. I've tried making friends before but always felt like they're.. alien to me. Today someone at work described a party; I felt like I should belong there but I know that once I'll get there I won't feel part of it. Strange.


May not be the same for you if you've always felt you had SPD, but if I think on an event after (normally I take on the "forget about them while at home approach), I see it more as how it should have felt based on how I used to feel, and it makes me ridiculously depressed if I focus on it.

Like I said before, for me, my mood stabilizers have helped with this. I seem to feel more now, and not have such severe flat affect. Either way it's a step forward for me.
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