Our partner

Need male and female imput in this one

Open Discussions about Relationship Issues.

Re: Need male and female imput in this one

Postby perejil » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:53 pm

Aj86 wrote:I like to help people too much. I am finding out from resent trips to my therapist (doing therapy for other non-related things) that my process and habits stem from earlier in life.


I think people can come to believe they have to keep doing things in order to earn others love. That the affection/esteem/value others have for them depends solely on their own output, service, or productivity: how they perform, what they produce, how well they please, what they bring to the table. As opposed to the idea that they, simply by themselves, have an obvious and intrinsic value. That they are worthy of love and esteem for their own sake. That they don't have to "sweeten the deal" to make themselves more palatable to others.

"Performance" seems to be the male equivalent of the girl who wears racy clothes and lots of makeup. Puts out a little too easily. She's trying to sell herself to win male approval, but doing it in the wrong way. And attracting precisely the wrong kind of attention, the wrong kind of people.

When you act like that, the message you're sending (to yourself and to others) is that you believe yourself to have little value, on your own. And if that's what you demonstrate you believe about yourself, then of course others will come to believe it of you, and to treat you accordingly.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes.

—Walt Whitman
User avatar
perejil
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 738
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 2:43 am
Local time: Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:54 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)


ADVERTISEMENT

Re: Need male and female imput in this one

Postby xdude » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:12 pm

perejil wrote:
I think people can come to believe they have to keep doing things in order to earn others love. That the affection/esteem/value others have for them depends solely on their own output, service, or productivity: how they perform, what they produce, how well they please, what they bring to the table. As opposed to the idea that they, simply by themselves, have an obvious and intrinsic value. That they are worthy of love and esteem for their own sake. That they don't have to "sweeten the deal" to make themselves more palatable to others.

"Performance" seems to be the male equivalent of the girl who wears racy clothes and lots of makeup. Puts out a little too easily. She's trying to sell herself to win male approval, but doing it in the wrong way. And attracting precisely the wrong kind of attention, the wrong kind of people.

When you act like that, the message you're sending (to yourself and to others) is that you believe yourself to have little value, on your own. And if that's what you demonstrate you believe about yourself, then of course others will come to believe it of you, and to treat you accordingly.


^^^ I heart this post.
We do NOT delete posts

Read the forum rules before posting here. If you are having any doubts about what you are posting, if you are thinking in the back of your mind, "I am going to want to delete this, or these details, later", remove those details, or step back and don't post until you are sure.
xdude
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 8662
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:41 pm
Local time: Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:54 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Need male and female imput in this one

Postby shock_the_monkey » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:17 am

i actually think that it's when we haven't felt loved and don't know how to recognise love that we try too hard to find it. those that know what love feels and looks like are less desperate and more discerning too.

as such, i'm sticking to my 'it isn't her, it's you'. we all use each other to some extent. i get the impression that you're as good as asking to be used. there aren't too many people that won't take advantage of such an offer.

what you really need to do is to stop over-thinking all of this, relax, and just be yourself rather than the person that you think other people want you to be.
something knocked me out' the trees
now i'm on my knees
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

there is one thing you must be sure of
i can't take any more
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

don't like it but i guess i'm learning

... shock the monkey to life
shock_the_monkey
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 4974
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:36 pm
Local time: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:54 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Need male and female imput in this one

Postby xdude » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:34 pm

I personally enjoyed this post, because it covers the dynamics so well.

To break it down -

perejil wrote:
Aj86 wrote:I like to help people too much. I am finding out from resent trips to my therapist (doing therapy for other non-related things) that my process and habits stem from earlier in life.


I think people can come to believe they have to keep doing things in order to earn others love. That the affection/esteem/value others have for them depends solely on their own output, service, or productivity: how they perform, what they produce, how well they please, what they bring to the table. As opposed to the idea that they, simply by themselves, have an obvious and intrinsic value. That they are worthy of love and esteem for their own sake. That they don't have to "sweeten the deal" to make themselves more palatable to others.


Many of us believe/learned, for whatever reasons, that to be socially valuable, or to be loved by someone, we must earn it by doing x, y, z. I am not saying just be a self centered monster either, but to ask the question, am I 'buying' love, and at what cost to myself?

perejil wrote:"Performance" seems to be the male equivalent of the girl who wears racy clothes and lots of makeup. Puts out a little too easily. She's trying to sell herself to win male approval, but doing it in the wrong way. And attracting precisely the wrong kind of attention, the wrong kind of people.


Agree. This comes down to what 'works', what is expected of us socially to 'buy' social approval, or love from another.

perejil wrote:When you act like that, the message you're sending (to yourself and to others) is that you believe yourself to have little value, on your own. And if that's what you demonstrate you believe about yourself, then of course others will come to believe it of you, and to treat you accordingly.


Again agree. This the quandary. Now that we have bought love/approval, at some cost, we may find that the person we sold ourselves too expects whatever it was we were doing to continue indefinitely. We may also find they didn't really care about us so much as what we did to fulfill their want.

In terms of this thread, the risk for you Aj86 is that she does approve of you doing things for her, but is that what you want to be loved for? What you do for her?
We do NOT delete posts

Read the forum rules before posting here. If you are having any doubts about what you are posting, if you are thinking in the back of your mind, "I am going to want to delete this, or these details, later", remove those details, or step back and don't post until you are sure.
xdude
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 8662
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:41 pm
Local time: Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:54 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Need male and female imput in this one

Postby perejil » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:21 pm

I'm wondering if these comments have begun to seem like bullying. These same points have been made, repeatedly. It's really the OPs choice what to do from here.

Aj86, I wish you well, whatever you decide.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes.

—Walt Whitman
User avatar
perejil
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 738
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 2:43 am
Local time: Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:54 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Need male and female imput in this one

Postby perejil » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:08 pm

I (we?) may also be oversimplifying this. Without meaning to sound cynical, aren't all relationships, at their core, a question of self interest or of transaction? If there's compatibility, all that really means is that two people are getting what they need from another person while offering something of value that that person is willing to accept in exchange.

If one or the other decides that what is on offer (physical attractiveness, conversation, sex, companionship, insight, validation, sympathy, attention, character) isn't enough to compensate them for what they're giving... or if the other person's foibles/vices are aggravating enough to sour an otherwise sweet deal, then there will be problems. If those are serious enough or go unresolved for long enough, then the relationship may weaken or even dissolve.

So it may not be entirely accurate to say that people should love you for who you are, and not for what you do for them.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes.

—Walt Whitman
User avatar
perejil
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 738
Joined: Tue May 02, 2017 2:43 am
Local time: Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:54 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Need male and female imput in this one

Postby Aj86 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:19 am

Just out curiosity would any of you be willing to lookat it from a different perspective? I say and think she is mostly being genuine but there are some questions that I won't deny. But if the majority of this is legit what would be some changes to the scenario or views? We agree (even as of Sunday evening) we are close friends. I don't mind "rescuing" people or friends in the time of need however I don't want to be taken advantage of either. After being used and wronged several times in my younger life I have pretty good intuition I believe to spot a fake. Not saying I'm right about this one, I'm just saying if she is being a fake or phony she's very very good! Considering what is known about her that I have stated what other possibilities can you all see/hear from the otherside of the perspective? If anyone has questions I'm happy to answer them. I'm just wanting to look and consider all sides of this so not to make myself look like and idiot, not to ruin a friendship over a misunderstanding or cause any emotional/physiological harm towards her that isn't necessary. Just want to be considerate incase all this she is putting out there is legit. I don't mind her contacting me when she is stressed at work or needs someone to talk to. We all need that as some points. I'm just not sure she has someone like this else where or maybe to the level of understanding her to this level. I truely believe we get one another emotionally and psychologically. I have another female friend I have had since freshman year in highschool and we are on a very simular level as this hence one reason I'm cautious towards this co-worker as well as cautious to not do something stupid or that I'll regret. What if she is being genuine? Just some of my thoughts coming out.
Aj86
Consumer 1
Consumer 1
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 12:14 pm
Local time: Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:54 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Need male and female imput in this one

Postby shock_the_monkey » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:31 am

emm ... just where did i say she was faking anything? it takes two to tango. so far, i only see you on the dance floor.
something knocked me out' the trees
now i'm on my knees
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

there is one thing you must be sure of
i can't take any more
... don't you know you're gonna shock the monkey

don't like it but i guess i'm learning

... shock the monkey to life
shock_the_monkey
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 4974
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:36 pm
Local time: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:54 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Need male and female imput in this one

Postby Aj86 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:18 am

Noted. So IF she isn't faking anything and is being genuine then what's possibly keeping her from "getting on the dance floor with me?" You saying I should back off(like I am already starting to do) and let her come to me? Since I have started that she has called me in distressed from work (which I believe now to be 100% true because I have heard several other sides to what happened over the weekend at work) saying she needed to hear my voice (she has said on several occasions that I can calm her down and "reground" her). The second day was worse than the first, to the point I went to pick her up on break and drove her around and let her vent it all out which I honestly believe helped a lot because she was relaxed and smiling again by the time I took her back to work.

I will add those who did wrong this past weekend have since been written up for their actions and wrong doings.
Aj86
Consumer 1
Consumer 1
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 12:14 pm
Local time: Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:54 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Need male and female imput in this one

Postby xdude » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:39 am

perejil wrote:I (we?) may also be oversimplifying this. Without meaning to sound cynical, aren't all relationships, at their core, a question of self interest or of transaction?


Absolutely, and nothing inherently wrong with this. I think it's fine, just so long as it's clear in our minds what we are giving and expecting in return. As usual the extremes are when situations tend to become problematic, and also... "The I am just doing what I do for others" thinking. It's not self-honest, and often comes with a cost later.

@Aj86 -

I really do hope she is sincere. There is really no way to know except to keep a degree of eyes wide open.
We do NOT delete posts

Read the forum rules before posting here. If you are having any doubts about what you are posting, if you are thinking in the back of your mind, "I am going to want to delete this, or these details, later", remove those details, or step back and don't post until you are sure.
xdude
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 8662
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:41 pm
Local time: Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:54 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to Relationship Forum




  • Related articles
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: LucyMac and 14 guests