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Outing A BPD or not?

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Outing A BPD or not?

Postby mister37 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:05 pm

Hi,
Short story.

I fell for a BPD girl. (diagnosed) And I am the only one that knows.
Not her family, nobody. She never had feelings for me. Only friends.
I ended up helping her for 6 months in her new house. Totally in love with her.

She fell in "love" with a guy that she was friends with in school.
She knew his marriage was at a slow paste. So she started texting more, calling. he would stop by.
I was hurting a lot from that. I was helping, did all the good stuff. I knew her, I told her I liked her a lot, even without her "mask" on. She never wanted me.

I kinda understand. She never wanted to talk.
Never about BPD. Or any deep things about herself. All she wanted was the house fixed. So i kept going. We did everything together. I did all she asked. Hoping for any affection. (in the end i found out I am codependent) So my self- esteem dropped hard. She only saw a weak dude. A jealous dude, nothing like A man. I understand that this is not something a girl wants.

So this dude shows up, confident, very nice to her, funny, she was having fun. (mask on)
So I understand why she falls for him.

I understand the story, I understand why I stayed for all that time. I understand I need help with the codependency. (in therapy now, 1st session)

It feels like I lost her, It feels like someone died. I miss her. A lot! I also know that it is like an addiction. I miss doing stuff for her. I feel jealous about that dude.
I know she love bombed him. He does not know about her BPD.
When I asked her what was going on, she told me she does not have feelings for me. She said that she did not have to explain herself to me. I understand that. I respect her, and know the BPD is hard on her. I know she does not want to hurt me. I know she used me. And i let her. I know she needed help. I was in love... hoping and hoping.

Halfway the 6 months after a bad moment with the girl, I talked to her sister. She knew something was up. She knew her sister took pills. But not enough to know what was really going on.
So I gave some hints. The sister never looked further. She did mention it to the family, and they all became very gentile on the girl. (the girl told me that) But to this day no one knows what is really going on but me.

I know what will happin next. This dude is in a ride he will not believe! He left his wife, his kids. his ex is broken. The kids are broken. And I am going kinda nuts...

The BPD girl told me she is not really in to the kids. But she will give it a go!
She told me, I don't fall in love that easy. It never works out.
She told me very cold, you knew I did not have feelings, she does not understand what she meant to me. (or she does and was very afraid to tell me) I don't know...

Should I tell her sister? Her family? Knowing what I know?

I know the logic thing to do is just let go... but this is hard. I am the only one that knows.
Her sister probably things I am nuts. I chatted to her, told me my feelings, told about the dude. but again... Not about the BPD. I really hope the sister would talk to her sister about her condition..but she seems not interested. It could very well be that the sister is manipulated by her, telling it was me that was the crazy one... the one that would not let go... The entire family is in with her little illusion... who knows what she told them.

No one is interested in the guy that helped her out for all that time. Non of the family ever contacted me. I have no contact with her, her boyfriend, family. Just the sister that does not care.

What would you guys do? Keep it to myself, and my close friends? I am stuck.

should I gently confront her on what i now know about BPD? That i know what is going on. Does she actually know what she is doing?

this is only a small part of the story. I did my best to tell the biggest parts.
It is very very complicated... Just saw a picture of the family on a trip together... this is hard to see. It's like a fairytale.. no one is seeing it.

I know I am obsessing. As far as I know it is kinda normal in my situation. I am trying to forget all this. Hope the therapy will help me get past this.



best regards.
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Re: Outing A BPD or not?

Postby Hebi » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:45 am

Hi Mister,

So first, I have BPD and I'm the queen of codependent relationships, on both the giving and the receiving end! I think it's great that you've sought therapy, because after starting therapy about a year and a half ago myself, this is the first time in my 26 year old life that I feel I have a little control over my different issues, it definitely gets better, so keep at it!

To me, the most important thing is, following your own values and building a good, solid set of your own personal boundaries. I can tell you are hurting, and that's perfectly normal, it's devastating to give someone everything you have to offer and receive only betrayal and pain in return. I've been in a LOT of situations where I have, out of hurt and anger, violated someone's privacy, or sought to defame them, or out them for "who they really are". This left me only feeling ashamed of myself and really embarrassed about my behavior later down the road, most times it painted ME as the crazy one (I might be a little I guess, by society standards lol).

The question I would ask you is, did she tell you her diagnosis in obvious confidence? I don't think it's right to ever violate someone's trust in you, and if it was a secret she felt she could trust you, and only you with, maybe refelect on that a little. Would you even want to violate that? It might give some instant gratification but would you feel ok about it later, once it was out? I don't believe in telling anyone else what choices they should make, but since you are asking in a straightforward manner, then no, I do not believe you should talk about her diagnosis with anyone except her. Depending on her age, I'm sure she already has an idea of how her cycle of relationships goes, and if she's diagnosed then she must know a little thing or two about her diagnosis, you can't fix her, no mater how badly you might want to.

Both this girl, and the man who left his family for her, made their own decisions and choices and they are the ones to live with them. If they screwed up, then they did that, and they will be the ones to deal with it, you don't need to feel that you have to take responsibility for it. If the girl is still your friend, and you cherish her as a friend and can respect the boundaries she has set for you, then all I think you can do is be supportive, but while making sure to care for yourself first.

You're doing great with the decision of therapy, it changed my life, and make sure to take the time to focus on yourself and care for and love yourself! Do what's right for you!
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Re: Outing A BPD or not?

Postby mister37 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:32 pm

Hi!

thx for replying.

Yes she indeed told me, she also knew that I told her story to my close friends.
She knew I was venting about it. She had no problems with that.

The only time she was getting angry was when she found out I talked to her sister.
But within 2 days she was OK with that. She saw her family was very soft on her.
She in fact blocked her sister for over a week before I talked to the sister. She unblocked her and all is fine now.

Then the story started to unfold with the guy.
While I was doing all I could to make sure she could move in her new house, she started to text and phone him. As soon she heard that his marriage was not that good anymore, she started to go in overdrive. Calling, texting, let him come over after work. All in front of me. So when I asked what was going on, she told me she had feelings. She told me they had always had a bond. She said it is not cruel of her, she said I knew she had no feelings for me. My heart took a beating on that one.

Never ever would she talk to me about her BPD. She could listen to me and my story about my past.
But never about her. To no one. She is doing the same with him. She told me she could talk to him about his problems, and she could talk about hers. (not all of it) So I asked are you telling him?
She became mad again. I can not talk to him! Not to anyone! Not to the sister..NO ONE!!

I am willing to take a chance... the question is..Is he? I asked if she is really doing this? Knowing what will happin? Knowing she does not like the idea of kids involved. She is keeping him in the dark. I told her she should talk about this in her therapy, she started to get mad again. I should mind my own business. (i understand that) But I don't like the idea she will be keeping him in the dark.

She created a perfect story for herself with him. She did not stand still for a moment about I would react. I told her, I cant help in her house anymore. I can not look at a couple. I would go insane. She did not understand that. She was thinking I would just be her friend. Even I when I told her I really was in to her. I wanted to be with her all the time. Do things together. I told her, we did all these things together in the house. Why cant we just hang out? I cant. It is not possible. I can only do this with a future boyfriend. OK... so here I stand. 6 months I did all i could. 7/7 from morning to night. Always in contact with her, texting. Making plans for the house. It all stopped in 5min. To nothing. I stand alone. No more contact. I asked to block me. She did not want to. I told her she has to, I told her that I know myself and would start to text her and I would not want to become a stalker. She is so deep in my heart. I care so much. She finally did block me.

After about a week, We had a shift together. She was so happy.. she started talking to co workers about the new dude. While I was sitting behind her. Dying on the inside. She does not get it. I took her aside. Told her please be a bit more discreet. I am hurting. I made her promise that she would not give up on her therapy. she promised. I kissed her head.. and left. Now i see her week on week of. We do not talk. I cant. I am still hurting. I know she sees me.. but no reaction from her side. She is all over her new dude. Together in the house I fixed. Over 200 pictures, my name carved in the staircase.

In the end. I am glad I now my problem now. I am getting help.
But very very confused about it all. Knowing what she is doing... It is all an illusion...
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Re: Outing A BPD or not?

Postby Hebi » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:56 am

It sounds like she's been really unfair to you, it also sounds like no matter what you do, you don't feel appreciated by her. If it was me, I would set up really strict boundaries with her. Codependent relationships can only remain if both parties allow it. Codependent relationships are a bond created by the helper who is essentially an enabler and the receiver is usually ill or with a substance abuse issue, etc. I think it would be important to set some ground rules of what type of help is ok to give and be able to recognize when you are overly exerting yourself for someone. Even though she may need "help" you're actually enabling her behaviors by continuing to help her beyond a certain degree.

I have a friend and we used to be very codependent with each other. He's the helper type and it makes him feel good whenever he inserts himself into my life and gives me help, a lot of times when I don't even ask for it. I used to always think to myself, oh if this goes wrong, I can just ask my friend for help, I know he'll bail me out. I never actually had to do much for myself because I knew my friend was there, when I was really depressed he would always clean for me and bring me food, I never asked for this, but he offered, and because I was depressed it was easy to accept. I didn't even notice how unfair our dynamic was to him until I got into a relationship with an addict, and I took on the role of enabler. I learned about codependency and realized my friend and I weren't in the best of dynamics either. Our situation only stopped because I set down boundaries and rules. I told him he could not help me so much anymore, that it was unfair to him and also kept me from being independent and solving my own problems. It's equally detrimental to both people as long as the codependent behavior continues.

It might be hard right now but maybe consider going no contact? It sounds like you have a good idea of what you're doing but I can also tell the anxiety and frequent thoughts of her must really be getting to you. You can't force her into changing her mind about the decision she's made, regardless of all of the wonderful things you've done for her, and it really hurts you what she's doing right now, so maybe just protect yourself and your feelings and stay away from her for now, it will make you feel better in the long run. Nothing I say is going to actually make you feel better. It will take time. Just know it gets better and much easier. Take all of that energy you were putting into her and put it into treating yourself that well instead!
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Re: Outing A BPD or not?

Postby mister37 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:12 pm

Hi,

I have zero contact with her. For 2 months now.
I only see her at work. I don't talk to her, I avoid eye contact.

The thing is, she is doing some weird stuff. Like one time we had a shift together.
She sat next to me in the shuttle bus. She just copied my way of sitting. I would put my legs up, so did she. She saw I had a new tattoo. (semicolon project) She came in the bus after the break, she drew a little drawing on her hand. Then a week later, I was smoking outside, the same place I always sit. She sat down of 10 feet of me, facing me. She did that a couple of times.

I think she is kinda missing me, Or at least the attention of me.
(Well at least this is what I think is going on.)
I was the one doing all I could, motivating her, texting when she was feeling bad... you know.. all the good stuff. Now she has no one to do that. She has her mask on while working and when she is home with him.

Not no mention, her house has my soul in it. All she sees is work I did. The floor, the paint, plaster on the walls. The very last piece of floor has a text of me and her on the bottom. So I really think she is not forgetting me. This thought kinda feels good to me.

I understand that I actually was not doing a good job by "pleasing" her when she was not so friendly with me. I let her do that stuff and then I would be even more soft on her. Instead of saying she was wrong and be more firm to her. What an eye opener now. I now see all the "bad" things she did to me. She did say that I was free to do what I wanted. If I would stay home for a day or longer it was ok for her. But when I actually did stay home to fix the insurance papers for my new car (With the dude from the insurance in person) she told me "can't you do that kinda stuff on the phone?" I told her no. It is a lot to talk about on the phone. So that made me feel bad, and I did some more sweet stuff then... never ending circle if you ask me!

She told me often that she was appreciating my help. She told me, I can never repay you for the things you are doing for me. So that's nice of her.

The first week of NC was damn hard! I was used to going to her house after work. I had a goal.
I was feeling ALIVE. Now I drive home to nothing. I had minor panic attacks.
Very very weird to feel that for the first time! I had no trouble going to bed. Sleeping was fine.
Couple of times I did dream about her..the house. But than I would wake up.. and BAM there it was again. Just a split second and all the pain was back! A lot of emotions in my head. Non stop.

This is now fading. I still think of her and all the things that happened. All the time! But less pain.
It comes in waves. Anger, hate, feeling down, depressed, then the "reality" kicks in and I think clear. I understand that the things I feel and think, are kinda normal in my situation. So I can calm myself down and deal with it a little better. I also made sure all pictures of her and the house are tucked deep down in my PC. Not in sight!

It helps a lot to read about BPD, codependency.. I always feel better. It helps me understand that A LOT of things she did and is doing are not her fault. Some are some are not. I'll be clear about that. I really understand, I try to.. that BPD is damn hard! The things I feel must be nothing compared to the stuff BPD peeps feel.

I also catch myself thinking of that dude, comparing myself..BIG no no!
He kinda looks like me, same posture. But all the other stuff is better..more money, nice car, better job, confidence, A real man. But I know that is just BS. I have nice things to, I know I am a good guy. I am not a loser that got rejected. I helped a person in need. Sure she was not good to me all the time. But I sure had fun! I learned a lot of new things. I can build my own house now! In a manner of speaking :lol: She made me look deep inside of myself, I've got some work to do..but hey! I can do this!

Plus, I did not leave my family and kids. I can only get better out of all this mess.
I wonder what will happen when she tells him, or when he finds out. If he will be on these forums doing and feeling the same as I am today. My dark side hopes he will... but I am not an A hole. I hope he is a strong mofo and is willing to do all he can, therapy with her... I hope she will be better in time. I hope she is not wasting time on just being with him and hoping she stays in her happy part of the cycle. NEVER GIVE UP GIRL... and that goes out to all you peeps!

Should I put :!: :!: 'trigger' warnings in this post? Or am I doing fine?
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Re: Outing A BPD or not?

Postby mark1958 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:39 pm

mister37 wrote:Should I put 'trigger' warnings in this post? Or am I doing fine?


No worries mister37,

While there is sensitive material here, you are being respectful in your description. I also think Hebi is fine with this.

Regards,

M
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Re: Outing A BPD or not?

Postby Hebi » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:36 pm

mark1958 wrote:
While there is sensitive material here, you are being respectful in your description. I also think Hebi is fine with this.

M


I agree ^^

Not gonna lie, it can be hard to hear stories about others with disorders like my own, and about how they affect other people and make them feel, the anger, confusion, and sadness. I know that I've done my fair share of regrettable things in relationships with other people (that's being modest lol) I was lucky enough to stumble across my treatment team who helped me come to a realization that, very bad things and very unfair things have happened to me, and like you said, that's not my fault. Those things played a major part in me coming to process things the way I do. But they also helped me realize that while becoming aware of this, I must take steps in taking accountability for my own actions, protecting myself when necessary, but also understanding how my actions affect those close to me and owning up when I hurt someone. I don't think anyone could have suggested I come to this realization though, I had to come to it on my own, in group therapy.

Just like me, I'm sure this woman has her own set of wrongs that were committed against her, she learned a dysfunctional way of coping and that unfortunately affects you and others around her. I can speculate that if times get tough for her, it might be really easy for her to reach out to you and draw you back in. Have you thought about what you would do in that situation? It might be satisfying to be the winner of her attention again, but without you both being in a stable place, I imagine it would cause a lot of pain for you in the long run.

You said how alive it made you feel, to have a goal, well we did this thing in therapy where we meditated (I know sounds so cheesy but it's cool I swear!) and we imagined meeting ourselves in the future, and what that would look like for us. It helped me form goals, trying to figure out what path I would take to become this person I admired, my future self. Pretty sure you could google "future self meditation" for a video guide, if that sounds interesting.

You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and like you are a genuine, understanding, and compassionate person. You have no need to compare yourself to others and even if this particular woman is not the one for you, I'm sure you will find someone who treats you fairly and meets your needs and loves you, especially if you continue doing what you're doing and becoming the best you that you can be.

Thanks for the post, it's kind of refreshed a few of my own things I'm supposed to be focusing on somehow lol Sorry I kind of took over the reply section.
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Re: Outing A BPD or not?

Postby mister37 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:10 am

Hi,
Thx guys! It is helping a lot! And now I actually can talk to a person with BPD. Kinda feels good! I know not all BPD peeps are the same. But still. It is nice to hear you out. thx!

Next session with the shrink, he wanted me to bring A picture of my mom and dad, and her!
I feel very excited to go! I want to meet the real me, or a better version of me.
So far she pushed me in a good way, I lost a lot of weight. Getting in shape. I look sharper then her new dude! That is not important..and kinda being an ass.. but still..gives me a drive 8)
She made me trigger my own feelings and problems. So that's good.

Well, the question will indeed be what will I do when she wants contact...
I've been thinking about that a lot!
It would not be a good idea to talk now. I really want to share my vision with her. But I think she would not listen. She is way to busy with the new guy. And I am the one that went NC. So far as I know..I am still not "blackened" so that is kinda good? will see..

I am nr1 now. I need to think about me. I need time to recover and rebuild my inner core.
This will take a while. So I have a lot to think about, and can not say if I would ever be a part of her life, or even have contact. As far as I have seen from other posts.. this can be a very risky move and just slip right back in my old people pleasing luovey dovey modus. :lol: If I can not handle myself.. there is no point of even thinking I could involve myself in something romantic.
For all I know she could still be with him, It could work out. I could become a friend. Maybe even help him and share what I know. This path is still unwritten. I know I'll be thinking about all that stuff in the future. For sure! Time will tell I guess. It is now! step by step. My mind is on a good path. But my heart.... OH LORD!! :roll: If the heart can settle down, I sure would want her back in my life! If there is no Love on my side. Then there is no lust from me. I could think clear and act firm on her. We could be friends. She needs a friend. AND her family! I would like that even more.

I told the sister I am doing sessions. Trying to get my thoughts in control. I said I would ask the shrink If it would be a good thing to actually say what is going on, or just let them see what is going to happen. This could maybe shake the sister a little and make her more interested in the condition of her sister. I still do not get it why the family does not dig any deeper on what she has. Who would not want to know information of a loved one when I almost had to feed it tho them with a spoon. Still no hints taken. (manipulation on my side..isn't it?) I know I know... Still doing backflip/screwdriver/salto batcrap crazy shizzlydaizers.. :mrgreen:

The best would be to even stop talking to the sister. This would break all communication and this kinda makes me nervous. On the other hand, sounding desperate is even worse and does nothing good for me. I'll lay of for a while i guess. See what the sister will do.

I've done so many things for her.
I shared my story with my crew chief. She is a very good lady. She has a husband with mental problems, and he almost did the deed. 2 times. :cry: so she can be trusted, she also knows my past. she can keep quiet. So what does that mean for the girl? She has a hand above her head. BPD is hard and she is good at her job. I asked if she can do more jobs that involve thinking, to keep her mind busy. The girl knows about this. I rocked the boat a little on that one. But she is fine with it now. I feel sorry for talking about her to someone she works with. I was totally broken. 8 hours on the job and not be able to talk to someone made me go nuts. And I am sure, she is talking to her new dude about my problems 2! as long as she does not have to talk about her own. But screw that. I stand firm. I have nothing to hide. I know what I know. He will 2... but when... will see. Heck! for all i know some director will pick up this story and i'll become a rich dude! haha :lol: then I would pay for the best treatment there is for her! After me...of course :P


I'm also doing sessions of Kinesiology. A couple of friends recommended this. So I'll give that A go.

I hope I can tell all of you my progress in the future. Don't be shy... comment on the post and say hi!

High five
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Re: Outing A BPD or not?

Postby xdude » Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:09 am

Hey mister37,

Something that may help you to adjust, and go easier on yourself -

An imperfect analogy, but think of someone who grew up in a wealthy family, who has a problem with over-spending, but so long as the the family is bailing them out, providing funds, what is their motivation to change? It's working. They get what they want and perhaps never strongly considered the 'what-if' scenarios, like what if I'm cut off? Besides even if they do, still what is the motivation to stop now?

The point of the analogy though is to help you adjust your own thinking. That drive to bail her out, and the what-if scenarios you are playing out on her behalf (e.g., what if ... her life turns into a downhill mess ... whatever scenarios you think are going to happen, but haven't really happened yet). The thinking and feelings these thoughts arouse can feel very intense, for you, but here is the most important what-if to ask -

What if, she simply does not (yet) feel any strong want to change because her life is effectively working for her as-is now?

The irony is that though we strongly believe we have good intentions, more support can just end up being more of the very reason a person does not want to change. Still, when that is what the relationship is based on, imbalanced give & take, it is hard to stop. For the excessive giver/supporter/fixer, it's the only role they know, and often there is another fear at play, 'if I don't then someone else will'. That can true too, but hopefully you see that for what it is. Imbalanced give/take is unhealthy from day one, and again, often just ends up back-firing. The one being excessively supported ends up coming to expect more and more, and less and less appreciative.

It's definitely time for you to focus on what you need and want going forward in life. It's good for you, and actually it is better for her too.
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Re: Outing A BPD or not?

Postby mark1958 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:31 pm

Hebi wrote:Not gonna lie, it can be hard to hear stories about others with disorders like my own, and about how they affect other people and make them feel, the anger, confusion, and sadness. I know that I've done my fair share of regrettable things in relationships with other people (that's being modest lol) I was lucky enough to stumble across my treatment team who helped me come to a realization that, very bad things and very unfair things have happened to me, and like you said, that's not my fault. Those things played a major part in me coming to process things the way I do. But they also helped me realize that while becoming aware of this, I must take steps in taking accountability for my own actions, protecting myself when necessary, but also understanding how my actions affect those close to me and owning up when I hurt someone. I don't think anyone could have suggested I come to this realization though, I had to come to it on my own, in group therapy.


I am going to apologize to mister37 for the slight thread diversion. But this is such a powerful paragraph Hebi. And if I could ever encapsulate what many people have desired in relationship with someone who struggles with a PD, in terms of understanding and insight, it would look something like what you wrote here.

I wish you well!
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