Tell kids their 'dad' lied?

[Tempest88]

I'm not one to generally ask for this type of input. I usually do what is the most self serving option available to me

My kids 'dad' lied to them, again. It's an ongoing thing with him, he has a serious image issue and always needs to look like the good guy, great father etc... He's a very deluded narcissist. An example: In my home you are asked to cough into the crook of your arm, especially when sick. He knows this rule, I remind him every.single.time he's here as he's always sick (clubs a lot even at 37 years old). He's here visiting them now, today he keeps repeatedly coughing into the air. I say to him "Please cough into your arm, I'm getting tired of reminding you. The children have better manners than you do" his reponse "I did cough into my arm" Either a VERY poor attempt at gaslighting or/and he's so deluded/arrogant he thinks I'm THAT stupid and will believe what he says over my own two eyes That's an example of what this narc is like.

Now to the question.

He had told my kids he'd come for christmas, then his visit about a month before christmas my 7 year old was talking about it and he says "I have to spend xmas at my moms now, she's old and her health isn't great" my youngest begged otherwise but in the end she understood and was as okay as she could be with the situation.

The problem. He did not spend christmas with his mom. He spent it with a woman he's seeing and her daughter. He doesn't realize his friends were my first first and I'm told everything he does without asking. I don't give a crap what he does, and personally rather he not be here over christmas as I can't stand him, but I put up with it as best I can for my kids.

I have spent YEARS covering up his lies and keeping his good guy image up for him in my kids eyes, as to not hurt them, while giving him a chance to get his priorities straight... all the while I would and still do tell him exactly what I think about him etc... I'm never bit my tongue when dealing with him.

I've slowly started letting go of the noose and leaving it up to him as to whether he will hang himself with it or not. I still cover up with things he does that would be extremely hurtful to my kids. I'm tired of it and I don't want to do it anymore, I never did want to do it and I certainly do NOT do it for him. He could get hit by a ######6 bus tomorrow and I wouldn't give a $#%^.

I talked to my mom about this and 1 'friend' who knows about my AsPD diagnosis and they both asked me if I'm wanting to let my kids know all the truth for my own self serving reasons... which got me thinking. I know I would like it very much for my kids to see him as the piece of $#%^ he is, so they'd not want anything to do with him hopefully and then I'd not have to deal with him.

On the other side though, would it not be good for them to start seeing him as he is? Should I be covering up his lies? Supporting them in front of them when I know the truth? I want to throw the rope at him and let him hang himself with it.

Which is more detrimental to my kids (9 and 7 year old girls), letting them see him as someone he is not and support his lies, or tell them the truth and let him ###$ himself over? Somewhere inbetween?

I want to do what's best for me, but I need to do what's best for them. I have no clue what the 'right' thing is in this situation and my self serving wants cloud my judgement.

[Greatexpectations]

Which is more detrimental to my kids (9 and 7 year old girls), letting them see him as someone he is not and support his lies, or tell them the truth and let him ###$ himself over? Somewhere inbetween?

Difficult. Somewhere inbetween I think, you don't want to hurt your girls unnecessarily. I would not tell them the full extent of his lies, they are too young.

My friend has two boys, she is divorced from their father who is probably NPD. He lies, he has a favorite (golden child) that he would offer to take on holiday while leaving the other son at home, so hurtful. How do you explain to a child that dad is only interested in his brother and he is unimportant??

At about 14 years old and hitting those difficult teen years the least favored son decided that mum was a pain. He wanted to live with his father, mum said NO.
She said no because she knew his 'father' would not be good to him that he would end up even more disillusioned and hurt, she wanted to save him from that.
He became more and more difficult, angry, resentful mum "Was ruining his life, spoiling his fun stopping him from living with dad". After a particularly nasty row, she couldn't cope with it any more and decided to do the very thing she least wanted, to let him go to live with his father (and girlfriend) if that's what he wanted.

He went, after a month with his father, he wanted to come back to mum which was fine.
He was hurt, for the first time he had seen what a total s##t his father was without mother as a buffer to his worse and most selfish behaviors .
He said they had not wanted him, he could do nothing right and all they did was moan.
So, one day as they get older you will not be able to protect your girls, they will sadly realized what a useless dud their father is.
At this time you could explain that you love them, and have tried to protect them. Maybe inform them that dad can't help it as he has a personality disorder. Give them information on NPD?
Till then it might be kinder not to tell them the total truth, its too soon.

[Tempest88]

At about 14 years old and hitting those difficult teen years

He was hurt, for the first time he had seen what a total s##t his father was without mother as a buffer to his worse and most selfish behaviors .

I was hoping my children could be aware of his selfish horrible behaviors before they get into those difficult teens years. To me, it would seem that it's one more 'let down' for them to go through during those years... if that were to be in and around the time they were to become aware of those behaviors/feelings.

Funny you mentioned a favorite. Their 'dad' does favor the 7 year old as my 9 year old has Aspergers and doesn't hug him or give much notice to him etc... What he fails to realize is that she's waiting for an invitation. With her, you have to make the first move and she will then smile and interact. She's well aware that he likes her sister more. She's even said to me after one of his visits "I know _____ doesn't like me as much as he likes _____" They both call him by his first name. My youngest will sometimes say 'daddy' to him, but it's very rare and only when she feels she needs to make him happy.

Last night around 1am I got into it good with him. New Years, so the kids were up late, after the New Year rang in, they put on a movie with him. Next thing I know my 7 year old is running upstairs crying (not surprising for her really ) so I asked what was wrong. Their 'dad' had apparently got pissy because my oldest asked for a drink so he got one but it wasn't what she wanted (a juice box), she wanted water as that's what she's used to drinking at night. She didn't melt down etc... to the wrong drink... which is a GOOD thing for her and something to be rewarded, it's taken work to get her to that place.

Their father on the other hand, threw the juice box and explained "Bloody Hell!". This startled both of my children as they're not accustomed to things being thrown etc... they sucked it up. My youngest then told him she was scared, he laughed at her and explained "Bloody hell!" again (a phrase I know he says when pissy). That's the point my youngest came running upstairs to me. Shortly followed by my 9 years old. Both kids were in my bed like a bat out of hell and fell asleep there.

Naturally, I was starting to cross the line into anger which is not a good thing for me I went downstairs and got into it with him. He tried to deny everything and said the kids were lying my kids have no reason to randomly make that up. Plus, all I had to do was check my video cameras, so I asked him if I should go look at the video recording. He naturally said no and tried to back peddle and half admit the truth but not the full truth, he tried to give me enough of the truth so I'd not watch the recording. I know the game and I play it better then him.

I did watch it and what my 7 year old told me what happened, is exactly what happened.

Confronting him about it again. He claims he was just frustrated, I told him no excuse and it was day 1 of his visit, he should not have been frustrated over a drink, nor should he have laughed at my youngest when she stated she was scared.

He leaves in a few hours. I'm going to be sitting my kids down to talk to them about his behaviors at that point. I'm going to tell my kids, before I tell him that I'm limiting his visits now and exactly why and what conditions he needs to meet before he can visit them again.

Last nights incident changes the playing field in my eyes. I see my kids as an extension of me, he essentially attacked them, which is the same as attacking me. The words 'It's on' popped into my head.

I'm going to start tearing him down. I will put his arrogance in check and he will see he's not as invincible as he thinks he is. I've started with his father, as I'm quite 'close' to him and he knows his son quite well and is not blind to his antics, but was under the impressions he'd been different with the kids. I'm e-mailing him a snippet of the video of his temper outburst with the kids. I'm also e-mailing it to all his friends on his facebook. He has the real good buy image going on. His image is very important to him.

He's going to be quite broken without his social circle and people to keep boosting his ego for him. He will scramble to rebuild.

Narcs are easier to take down then normals.

[ninas]

I never told my kids that their dad lied but I did tell them what I believed about situations as honestly as a child can handle it at their level. e.g. Dad slapped my 2 year old son across the face when he was asked to play with him. After the situation settled a bit my son asked why dad didn't want to play with him. I responded "dad has some things that he needs to work at for himself, it's not your fault. You didn't do anything wrong." Son said, ok and went to play. (The marriage didn't last long)
When we separated/divorced (they were 1 and 3 years old) there were times when their dad told my sons that I was fighting him and my own family. I simply said, "we both love you and that sometimes adults do fight but its not ok to make you part of the fight. It isn't about you. Its not your job to fix problems that are happening between adults. It isn't your fault. Sometimes parents stop loving each other but we still love you very much. And sometimes when people aren't happy living together, its better if they don't live together." I had a lot of stress and broke out in zits. He told the kids to ask me why I had sores on my face. I just told them if he wants to know he can ask me himself. I told them "he shouldn't be asking you to ask me questions. It's not right or fair to you." They were about 8 and 10 then. He never asked and I think it stopped a lot of other questions and speculation.

When my older son was active in drama at school, their dad accused me of turning son against him, because son chose to stay with me so he could go to practice and be part of the performance on the weekend. This meant he would stay with me 3 weekends in a row and he wanted down time before going back to school. Dad lives in a different town. There was no assurance from dad that he would bring him to practice if he went to his dads. Dad believed others should cater to him and him alone. Dad wasn't willing to work a compromise. Son became frustrated and ended up refusing to go to his dad's ever again. Dad called me and timid me told him with my son listening that " you are being very selfish and self-centered by not being more supportive to the kids when they were doing other things than attending visits with you. Not everything in life is about you" (that is his motto -"I am #1 in my life and nobody tells me what to do.") That weekend dad and his family members showed up to be supportive to him at the drama.
I always told their dad that I would not make or break their relationship with him but that he had to do that himself. I was being blamed for things that didn't work between them and I refused to take it. This is a dad who wanted to "own" one child while I "owned" the other. Very despicable and cruel narcissistic bastard." Today he is still who he was then, not healthy and expecting our sons to dote on him, leave their jobs to take him to appointments, cut his grass, do whatever. He gets "meals on wheels" from his mother across the street because he refuses to do for himself. They would do it willingly but he takes them for granted.
As the guys grew older they've come to see him for what he really is and don't cow tow to him. They say he's their dad and they still love him and visit him, help when they can but also make alternative arrangements for him so they don't have to do it all. It makes him so mad that he can't control them. lol. My youngest son used to visit him reg every week and has discontinued because his dad is incredibly difficult and argumentative. Now they both visit when it works for them. Their own families come first.
I think its inevitable that the kids will get hurt by a parent like this. Its best to help them know how to deal with it from the start without pointing fingers. Clarity, truth and teaching them to be assertive make healthier children.