Really Really Struggling (hocd)

Hi,

You may remember me I posted a few months back on the forums.obsessive-compulsive/topic221385.html

I'm struggling immensely right now. Me and my boyfriend have been dating since October. I really do love him (or do I?), and I've never had better sex with someone in my whole life. He makes me laugh, the sex is amazing, He has given me my first orgasms from just penetration (sorry, TMI), I feel a spark and butterflies 90% of the time we kiss. But here's the thing I find it a little suspicious that the best relationship I have ever been in is during this god-awful HOCD phase. Like does this mean I'm actually lying and forcing these reactions? Also, I've seen people say that their OCD has disappeared when they are in relationships, but mine has just gotten stronger and stronger the more I've fallen in love. I'm terrified to lose him, but I also wonder if my anxiety would lessen without him. I feel tremendous guilt being with him while searching for hours a day, whether I'm gay or not. I miss my old self so much, where I was boy-crazy and super comfortable with all things sexuality. Without HOCD, I feel like I would be thriving right now. I mourn the loss of my early twenties due to this illness and wish I could go back to my old self so badly, but that girl almost feels like a stranger to me. I don't know what I felt like, but I knew I felt natural.

Why won't OCD just accept I'm not gay? Bisexual, I could deal with it, but I don't feel inclined to be with women at all. Also, with reassurance, it use to work for me for almost a whole day. I would find some really good insight and relax for hours on end. Now I swear it only works for maybe 30 minutes on a good day. I've gone so deep into the rabbit whole that I've found posts of people with HOCD turning out to be gay. How common do you think this is?

I truly can't accept my worst fears are possible and don't want to live my life with that. That's not me! Instead of working today, I spent much of my time on forums and balled my eyes out in my pillow after work. I'm also avoiding my boyfriend right now. At the beginning of our relationship, when I was with him, my HOCD thoughts practically disappeared when we were together, but when spending longer weekends with him, they now creep in around him. I almost had a panic attack during sex once with him because I was struggling with the thoughts so badly that day. The awful thing, too, is I basically lost all attraction to men and feel groinals in front of women. I never had an issue with finding women sexy before and would drool practically over men and constantly want to have sex with them. I was the boy crazy friend!!! I will admit I've had bicurious moments, but it's nothing too crazy. The thing that really triggers me is my friend from HS breaking up with her boyfriend of 2 years in college and is now a lesbian. Like, what the actual ###$. And to make matters worse, she seemed so in love with him!!!

I WANT MY LIFE BACK NOW! I've become a bad friend, lost my passion for pretty much everything, lock myself in my room all day, and only care about this.

How likely do you think it is that my worst-case scenario - being a lesbian? Is going to come true, or is true? Aren't there lots of lesbians who aren't happy about it and wish it went away as well? How am I different than them? Can society hetronormativity be so strong that it convinced you you liked boys. Also I don't have many lgbtq friends but do you think people discover they're gay in their early 20's or is this incredibly rare. Like wouldn't I know the first time i kissed men, had sex many times with them, and dated a lot that i didn't like it?

So sorry for the long rant I'm crying while typing this but if anyone has any insights into these questions i would greatly appreciate it. I have never experience such guilt, anxiety, depression, and most of all grief in my whole life.

Me and my boyfriend have been dating since October. I really do love him (or do I?), and I've never had better sex with someone in my whole life. He makes me laugh, the sex is amazing, He has given me my first orgasms from just penetration (sorry, TMI), I feel a spark and butterflies 90% of the time we kiss.

I have plenty of friends who are lesbians. Some of them had male partners into their teens. I have heard their stories about this time in their lives. NOT ONE would EVER describe being with a man the way you do above, especially the bolded part.

Why won't OCD just accept I'm not gay?

OCD is not a separate being. You shouldn't try to convince it because there isn't an IT to convince. It is the by-product/symptom of anxiety. It is a disorder.

Like wouldn't I know the first time i kissed men, had sex many times with them, and dated a lot that i didn't like it?

One of my friends kissed a boy for the first time and immediately knew it wasn't for her. Another friend knew when she was 10 and hadn't kissed anyone.

Here is the reality. If you have been diagnosed, you have to get with your therapist/Psych and find a better solution. If you are not seeing anyone, consider it.

If you want to keep trying to "figure it out" you can do that too but I would hate to see you suffer any longer than you need to.

Good luck.

What Otter said. You're not a lesbian and having the best sex of your life with this guy both at the same time, one of them's gotta go, and you're having the good sex, so that leaves being a lesbian is the loser in this contest.

Which, if you were, you'd have an itch that wasn't being scratched. I'm bisexual. I have an itch that doesn't get scratched, and I know it. 'Cause it bloody well itches!

hocdgirl1313 wrote:I find it a little suspicious that the best relationship I have ever been in is during this god-awful HOCD phase.

Oh I don't. The better something's going, I'd think the more your anxiety is going to freak out over it. That seems to be par for the course, a lot of times, here. When you've got it bad enough, the mere fact of not being anxious, seems to be enough to make visitors here anxious. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying this is something we do on purpose, but it has occurred to me more than once that sometimes anxiety disorders sure do seem to act much like a physical addiction: our brains often seem to seek out something anything to be anxious about.

hocdgirl1313 wrote:Why won't OCD just accept I'm not gay?

Otter wrote:OCD is not a separate being. You shouldn't try to convince it because there isn't an IT to convince. It is the by-product/symptom of anxiety. It is a disorder.

Otter is right. You can't reason with your disorder. I'm going to depart from Otter, however, in a way. With some of my intrusive thoughts (harm thoughts), I have found it helpful to treat my OCD as if it were a separate being. It's this thing that lives in my head- it has squatter's rights, I can't evict it. But it lives on fear. So I made it my business to deny it my fear. Which makes it weaker... That's just a fancy way of saying that without accepting the premise of my intrusive harm thoughts, I did cop the attitude that I would refuse to care about them when they entered my mind. I rather suspect it was a roundabout backdoor way of applying Exposure and Response Prevention therapy to myself. But the point I'm making is that you can't reason with your OCD, but for my Harm OCD, it was helpful for me, to treat it as if it was an unwelcome being. It gave me something to combat. And in a roundabout way, for my Harm thoughts, it could be argued since that intrusive thoughts are ego-dystonic (the opposite of what you intend to do or be), yeah they're kinda not the real 'me', even if they are something completely created by my brain.

You can't reason with OCD- to me, you can only out-stubborn it. My unreasonable anxieties are going to be irrational and inconsolable, and as far as I can tell, the only way I can set mine aside is to take the attitude that I just don't give a rat's ass about them coming true. Otherwise I can (and do) drive myself insane with worry.

Hello,

I really appreciate both of your responses a ton. It means a lot to me that you take so long to reply to people and give such great insights.

I tried to stay away from the website as I know this is a compulsion, but something not great happened last night. To preface, I just moved to NYC, which has been my dream since I was about 11. I live with two girls, and one of them is a long-time friend of mine. I recently have developed the fear that If I apply to a new job or make new friends, I'm finally going to meet a woman I like and fall in love with her. Right now, even typing this, I feel like my stomach is starting to turn. I think this whole thing has come with a side of depression because I'm way less interested in fashion, going out with friends, and just all my previously enjoyed activities.

Last night I saw my boyfriend, who I can honestly say I feel like a little girl around. I really do love him (once again, my brain has asked, or do I?) Biggest TMI ever, but sex with him has been so amazing because of my ability to get very wet during sex. It has never been as intense as this before. So last night, I was feeling a bit more anxious than normal but nothing out of the usual, and I just could not get wet. He was doing what he has always done, and it just wasn't there. I know I shouldn't spiral about this, but my main worry is he will never be able to make me wet again. Also, when I'm in a calm state of mind, the sex is amazing, but sometimes I become distressed during sex due to the constant intrusive thoughts and analyzing if I'm enjoying it enough.

I just want my old life back so so badly. I either had my lesbian realization at 21 or I'm suffering from severe HOCD. My attraction to men doesn't even feel remotely similar to what is was before, and my biggest fear is it will never return, but I just don't have the drive to be with women. Women as friends are amazing, but I just thought of the idea of a woman holding me in her arms and tensed up. Before HOCD too I had no issue what as ever finding women sexy. I could even get a little aroused and thought nothing of it. Now I see a woman in a bra and feel my groin clench up and instantly get flustered. It's so odd, and I don't think a true lesbian would react like that because it's almost to every woman in a sexual position. I miss my boy crazy life so bad. I also am so scared of hurting my boyfriend. Do you think it's irresponsible to be in a relationship while going through this or would I just be punishing myself for not letting myself have any enjoyment? Also do you think its likely I'm going to fall in love with a woman? This isn't me but maybe it is.

Thank you so much once again!

First of all, your inability to get aroused is not an indication that you are a lesbian or that you don't enjoy your boyfriend. When the body is suffering a heavy dose of anxiety and, probably, depression, the physical effects can be profound, like not getting aroused and other things.

If someone suffers HOCD they suffer OCD. In many cases (which you will find in abundance on this site) people will drift from one "theme" to another - HOCD to POCD and then on to other obsessions. In each of these cases, they ALWAYS wish they could go back to the previous theme, which didn't seem as bad as the present one. This makes sense because anxiety is the fear behind the mask. The anxiety is constant. The "H" in HOCD is just a flavor, so to speak. Reduce the anxiety (medication, CBT, etc) and you reduce whatever fear the person is suffering from.

Do you think it's irresponsible to be in a relationship while going through this

No. Absolutely not. However, if he cares about you and he is mature enough to understand, then you should be able to talk to him about it. Have him read-up on anxiety disorders.

O.

hocdgirl1313 wrote:Do you think it's irresponsible to be in a relationship while going through this

Otter wrote:No. Absolutely not

If it were irresponsible to be in a relationship during a sexual or relationship themed OCD, then people like us would never be in relationships. At some point, you have to live your life.

hocdgirl1313 wrote:So last night, I was feeling a bit more anxious than normal but nothing out of the usual, and I just could not get wet.

Otter wrote:the physical effects can be profound, like not getting aroused and other things.

Second and third that. Doesn't matter how much 'little Snaga' demonstrates functionality in the early morning, or when we're all alone, just it and me- the moment when others are involved, and I worry about my sexuality, or if I'm attracted to this person, or even just anxiety over if I'll have anxiety, or just anxiety about performing.. well that just kills it. Your inability to get aroused doesn't have to mean anything except that anxiety is a mean, heartless bitch that will mess your mind every chance you let it.

Hello,

I'm back again after trying to stay away (not really though I go on this website almost every day)

I want to say thank you again, Snaga and Otter, for responding to my messages and for your insight. I really appreciate it, and it says a lot about your character that you take the time to write such personalized and thoughtful messages to sufferers. Well, I moved to a new city, and I'm definitely still struggling. I think the change, finding my job stressful, and the winter months aren't helping as well. I was also triggered by a couple of Tik Toks, which have contributed to my extra rumination recently. One was a gay guy saying how upset he feels sometimes that he is gay, and another was a girl who said she pretended to be boy-crazy as a teen to cover up her lesbianism. What I can say is I spiked majorly but still had to work, so I pushed it aside until after work. I'm really realizing my OCD won't accept any answer it is given because if I'm too boy-crazy, I'm a lesbian trying to cover something up, and if I'm not, I don't like men. I can win with it. Anyways I want to keep things short here and will post some questions I have below. I have so many things to say but don't want to bother anyone.

1. The only man I'm attracted to at the moment is my boyfriend. When I see him, I just want to touch him, and when we facetime, I get super giddy at how gorgeous I think he is. It kinda worries me though, that I'm not finding other men attractive. In high school and all through college I was always looking at attractive men - I wasn't very picky either. Now when I see a good looking guy and feel nothing it brings a lot of sadness. Like a huge chunk of who I am (or who i thought i was) was taken away from me

2. Whats the difference between an occasional homosexual thought and an inkling of homosexuality. I wont lie and say all my thoughts have been straight and I was always ok with that. I have never been a big believer in people are 100% this or that but what scares me is people will say "you would have had some sense that you were gay. Like what is some sense - like i think twice I've had a maybe your a lesbian thought before HOCD hit and just ignored it because i knew it was ridiculous as i was already crushing on guys. What is this idea of having and inkling and how does it differ from the occasional thought or short feeling i imagine a lot of heterosexual people have had.

3. What age do you think most people realize they are gay? I feel like 21 would be extremely rare but i guess anything is possible - here again comes the looking into the past for evidence part that tortures me. I would say about 98% of my thoughts, feelings, and experiences have been heterosexual, but that 2% of stuff really drives me over the ledge

4. Do you think it's abnormal that I have been suffering from this form of OCD now for almost three years? As previously mentioned, I have had anxiety issues from a very very young age and I'm currently on medication. I have had small OCD blips that have lasted a couple of weeks like harm ocd and schizoprenia OCD but was always more of a hypochondriac and suffered from panic attacks. I see a lot of people on this board have this theme for a couple of months and then have it move on to something else so I'm surprised I have been stuck on this one fear now for almost three years. It makes me think this is not OCD

5. Here another one and my majorrr spike. Don't a lot of people hope for their gayness to go away. I feel like I'm doing this right now but if I was actually gay and always knew i think i would come around to it. I just want my previous self to come back because I was most happy and I felt like me -I feel natural (is this heteronormativity though or just being straight lol). I also grew up in a liberal city and have never been religious, so there are no moral implications.

6. Heres another spike for me. I do have some societal fears though. I'm really close with all of my female friends who are all straight (straightish I would say because many of them have experimented or watch lesbian porn) If this is true i do worry about my friendships not because i think my friends would judge me but because we always talk about boys and I don't wanna miss out on that with my friends.

7. I use to always talk about men a lot of whenever i found a guy hot would go on about it. Do you think you can be covering up for something without realizing you are doing it? I also found a journal from 6th grade about how to get a guy to like you. (yes i did dig through my old diaries to try and see if i ever wrote about woman as a child - I didn't find anything)

8. I am now also overanalyzing all sensations and feelings. My friend came to visit for my birthday and when we hugged my nipples got hard and i freaked out in my room before we went to the bar. I also use to love giving blow jobs before this obsession started but now whenever i touch my bf penis i worry if I'm liking it enough or I'm attracted enough to male genitalia. However i still love the sex and when we kiss and I feel him against me i feel amazing. Also my roommate got asked out on a date and i literally felt jealous but also think it was my OCD. Like if i was truly a lesbian i don't think i would question having a crush on every female friend i have - ones I've had for years especially

9. I don't think i would have an issue being bisexual but the idea of going down on a woman makes me freeze and get stiff and feel uneasy. Even kissing makes me feel a little uneasy but not awful. Does this sound bisexual - i also use to watch girl's kissing on the internet and masturbate around 14 but switched to regular stuff (I would fantasize about men as well and maybe once in a blue moon a woman)

10. I don't have many lesbian friends - I have one but she triggers me a lot because she like a later in life lesbian i guess (i think shes bisexual but that's another story) but i did have a lesbian family friend i never felt uncomfortable around, watched tv shows with lesbian characters, and it would pain me to see people be homophobic. I never understood why people where homophobic if it was something that doesn't concern them but now i avoid everything gay at all costs. I also hate when people will say "there's nothing wrong with being gay" like i absolutely know this but it does feel wrong to me when i believed myself to be straight for 21 years and lived my life so happy that way. If either of you have lesbian friends what was their experience and did they hate it? I wonder when they knew as well?

I'm so sorry for the long post but let me know your thoughts here - do i sound like classic hocd, bi mixed with hocd, or should i start reconsidering my whole life? I don't think i can ever come around to the idea of being gay because i would just reminiscence on my past attractions and my happiness. it would feel like I switched bodies almost. I'm already so happy with my boyfriend but can't imagine how happy and thriving i would be without this - I hope in a year from now i can look back on this and laugh but i guess we can't be sure

I appreciate all of you as well!

Since you took the time to write a long post, I will answer a few of the questions:

2. Eros is not a light switch, it isn't on or off. A heterosexual person having homoerotic thoughts or fantasies is common, and visa-versa. Why? Because being heterosexual/homosexual or anything else is about much more than sex. It's about a commitment to that person in a real relationship and all is complexities. Even if you have sex with a woman but don't want a female partner, means you are NOT Gay or Bi.

Your anxiety is forcing you to fear what is natural in human sexuality - that being, it is fluid. We are all different, you choose what you want to be by acting according to your desires. Not the desires you think might be hiding in a corner of your brain somewhere. The desires that are fully in your being.

3. Almost all of the gay friends I know knew they were gay by no later than 12 years old. Some as young as 9 - although they didn't think of it in terms of being gay back then. It was only in retrospect that they realized how they felt at that young age.

4. Someone who has been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder (AD) can live anxiety free most of their life. But they have to accept and treat their disorder. It doesn't always mean meds.It doesn't always mean therapy. But it does mean living a good life (good sleep, eating, exercise, etc) and being aware that spikes can occur. To answer your question I have seen/read themes for people that have lasted a week or gone on for years. I have had a theme go on for years.

You are not going to find the solution by fear-questioning or "testing".

Let me talk to you from the future you (because I have had my OCD for 35+ year). This can go on the rest of your life. The theme doesn't matter because there are an endless amount of themes. I have had endless amounts of themes. It's all FEAR. Just fear, caused by anxiety. The face of your anxiety wears masks - HOCD, harm ocd, schizophrenia OCD, etc. The mask is not living, it is just a fake face.

You have to learn how to lower your level of anxiety. The lower your anxiety, the less these kinds of themes will occur.

“I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

― Frank Herbert, Dune