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Getting a narcissist "in the mood"

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Getting a narcissist "in the mood"

Postby lovemynarc » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:27 pm

My wife (of almost 20 years) has a large number of narcissistic traits, and I've come to accept them. In fact our relationship is better than ever now that I have a clearer understanding of what motivates her (partly through reading many, many old posts on this forum over the last few weeks). I no longer resent a lot of the things I used to because of the knowledge I have gained.

The main problem for me at this point is that I have a lot of interest in sex, and she has an extremely low sex drive. She enjoys sex when it's happening, and she always orgasms, but I swear if it were entirely up to her we'd have sex a couple of times a year. She's very sexy, but just not sexual. It just sort of doesn't occur to her to have sex very often.

Some of this is the usual N relationship asymmetry. Even if I tell her specific fantasies she mostly ignores them...whereas if she ever told me a fantasy I'd work like a fiend to accommodate it. (Sadly she claims to have to no sexual fantasies, and, after all this time, I believe her.)

Is this just how it's going to be? Or are there ways readers of this forum have found to get narcissists to think about marital sex (as opposed to new conquests) as something that gives them supply and therefore have them come to desire it?

One of the myths she holds about herself is that we have plenty of sex, when in fact we can go weeks without. I suppose I could try to approach it from that angle, implying that other, "hotter" wives are more sexual.

I'm not interested in hearing a bunch of hate directed at Ns or dire predictions about my marriage please.

I'm asking for practical suggestions about improving the sex life of the not-very-sexual type of N.
Last edited by lovemynarc on Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting a narc "in the mood"

Postby JayEmCee » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:14 pm

I don’t think that problem is anything to do with the fact your wife has N.P.D, although it may exacerbate the problem . Sorry I don’t like the term “N”, as I feel it is almost trying to be an excuse and a label. It’s a disorder that can be dealt with, not an abbreviation that has to be wrapped in cotton wool and treated like a china tea pot. But that’s just my personal opinion. But of course as I have N.P.D, it’s the only opinion that is right (I am joking of course it’s not the only opinion).

Before you start determining the problem as N.P.D related is there a simple answer?

Women do have different sexual needs than men, and as they get older can often view sex as a chore, rather than a shared pleasure.

You have been married 20 years. So how old is your wife? Is she or has she gone through the menopause? Could the problem be hormonal?

The problem with N.P.D from a male perspective is that your never totally satisfied. Because of that (from my male perspective) you get bored very quickly if things become routine. If it’s me doing all the chasing then I get quickly bored and move on. That usually means a new partner and hopefully one with more idea and adventure. But, from an N.P.D perspective I find sexual initiation by the women as something that feeds my N.P.D supply. If they are giving me the attention and initiating sex then they must really want it from me. So I must be doing something that they like? That’s feeds the ego and feeds the N.P.D perfectly. So if you are giving your wife the attention, then if she has N.P.D, you would expect her to respond with great satisfaction.

You say you’re the one doing all the initiating, but how are you doing it? Women need to feel secure and loved in a deep and meaningful sexual relationship. I should imagine that’s even more the case with one who has N.P.D. Are you spending time telling her how nice she is, or are you actually showing her. By that I mean, less talk more action. If you know the buttons and places that make her tick, and your touching them the right way, then animal instinct should take over……………..

If she has N.P.D then the chances are that she doesn’t like routine, when you actually get her going are you prepared to throw some spice into the mix with different positions etc. Are you doing it for her benefit, or your own? You have to make her feel that it’s for her gratification and not just yours. More than that it needs to be fun, an adventure. Do you have sex away from the bedroom? What’s wrong with the shower, the kitchen floor, the car, the sofa in the middle of the afternoon? She has to feel centre of the attention and above all else it needs to be fun, an adventure. Not routine and certainly not a chore.

Before you crack on with the good stuff how are you getting her in a romantic frame of mind away? “Hi honey, I’m home” won’t be enough. Take her out for meal, spoil her, go out for drink, spoil her. Take her to an hotel, spoil her. Women love FOREPLAY more than penetrative sex. Kisses, cuddles, massages, oral pleasure (on her not you!!), touching, caressing, feeling. You have to show her that it’s not about you, it’s about pleasure for her. She has to believe that your pleasure is a bi-product of what you are doing to her. Not the other way round. Even with N.P.D, if it’s really good for her, she will make it really good for you. It cannot be one sided but you may find that you have to put in initially more effort to get her going.

Make her feel sexy and sensual, and she will respond in kind. But take her out of the normality of routine and make it an adventure for her. Don’t ask her if that what she wants. Play to her N.P.D traits and show her know that you know how to give her what she wants. N.P.D’s need to feel a spark to get the best out of us. If were centre of your world, then you will be greatly rewarded. If were not centre, then you’re in for a rough ride.

I think from my own (male) perspective I am rarely sexually very satisfied. Few women are able to reciprocate my sexual efforts and give me back half the attention they get. As an N.P.D I can put a lot of effort into sex when I really want to, but this is always because I am wanting to receive a lot back. It’s the totally selfish side of N.P.D. We give, so that we may receive. But it rarely happens to the level I expect, need and want. I can probably only think of 1 girl in my entire life with whom I can say I have enjoyed a really good sexual relationship. The rest have all seemed somewhat lacking. Good, but no cigar!

I don’t know if what I have written helps or hinders you. But you have at least another perspective to consider.
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Re: Getting a narc "in the mood"

Postby lovemynarc » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:53 pm

Thanks for your input. A lot of good stuff in there.

I apologize, I don't mean to denigrate by abbreviating "narcissist", it's just a burden to spell every time, a bit like Mississippi. If I were planning to write a long post about a syzygy I'd probably refer to it as an "s". But out of respect I'll try to avoid it.

We are in our mid forties, no menopause yet. The sexual problems have been going on for a long time, punctuated by some really intense fun episodes usually after a large number of drinks.

Now that I am analyzing our relationship as one of narcissist (her) and codependent (me) I have been able to improve a lot of things, and am hoping to use the same approach to improving our sex life.

One interesting thing is that she has an unusual relationship to physical pleasure. I can rub her neck and gently play with her hair for several hours while we watch a movie without her even acknowledging it. Other women I have known would give gratitude or at least purr to signal their pleasure. I've asked her if she likes it, and she claims she does, but it's a bit off-putting. We have a massage table, and she knows I'll give her full body massage any time she likes, yet she almost never asks for one and often refuses when I suggest it. She tells me she enjoys them when they happen.

The same sort of thing occurs with foreplay. I'm not the best lover in the world, but I had a fair amount of experience with women before we married and they generally enjoyed my foreplay techniques. I am very, very interested in the woman's pleasure. But she remains eerily silent when we are engaging in foreplay. Her body responds, but she's sort of closed off. Nevertheless she has no problem understanding that it's mostly about her.

As far as your point about routine, to the contrary, it's pretty clear to me after all this time that if it were up to her we would have sex once or sometimes twice a month at around 2pm on Sunday and it would last about 10-15 minutes. She tends to be a very controlled, scheduled person.

As far as showing her she's the center of my world, of that there is no doubt. It's quite clear (too clear?). I often tell her how beautiful and sexy she is (which she is and she knows it well). I also do pretty much all the chores around the house because she has the "alpha" career and is more stressed out. It's nice for her not to have to think about that kind of drudgery when she's home.

I think your most helpful point is that I need to be a more energetic initiator.

Thanks again.
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Re: Getting a narcissist "in the mood"

Postby npdcentral » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:39 pm

lovemynarc, good grief! Reading some of your wife's traits make me wonder if we're married to the same woman!

My situation is very different from yours. While I understand what NPD is and now know why my wife behaves the way she does, I am not willing to stay in the relationship. I am purposely cutting off supply and making it difficult for my wife to want to stay with me. We have not had sex for the past 3 months or so. I foolishly declared, in one of our arguments where I had still not learned to control my emotions, that I had had enough and was no longer going to bother having sex with her.

Before we stopped having sex, it was such a difficult thing to get her in the mood. No matter what, she was never in the mood. I could watch TV and have my hand on her bare thigh and rub it for hours with her not reacting AT ALL. She literally had no emotion or, from what I saw, no physical reaction either. I was always the one initiating and it came to a point where she asked me to 'tell' her every time I wanted sex. Naturally, this becomes quite demeaning when you have to (what I consider) beg for sex. It makes you somehow feel like a freak or a deviant. Whats worse was that I would also not get sex on all the occasions that I asked. It was frustrating, tiring, and annoying. That's when I said enough was enough and stopped having sex with her.

What I believe worked for me (not like many things did and even this worked very rarely) was for me to give her a day or evening where she gets to be the center of attention. So if we go out, then we go to a posh, upscale mall. I let her go nuts with the credit card, and then we'd go for a expensive meal after that to a popular restaurant. It all used to be about being seen with lots of shopping bags and being the envy of all those strangers around her. If things worked out right, she would be less resistant to my advances later that night, but this was never a consistent thing.

Another thing she loved was to travel. I was quite sure that she was turned on by hotels. I would be more likely to get sex when we traveled. Of course, the travel had to be in luxurious settings, both airplane ride and hotel. Budget hotels and flying coach did not do anything to improve my chances.

So you can imagine how I got myself into severe debt because of the constant chase to have sex. All I can think of is for you to try and hide your need to have sex with her. Probably easier said than done, but if she finds out that you need something so badly, then she is just going to not grant it to you. Good luck in your quest.
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Re: Getting a narcissist "in the mood"

Postby JayEmCee » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:47 pm

h don’t worry about the whole “N” thing. It’s just me being a bit pedantic in my N.P.D way! You haven’t caused me any personal defence. I just don’t see why people need to shy away from the fact that it is a disorder. But that’s just me.

I am trying to look at things from the N.P.D point of view, but it doesn’t help that I am not a female!!!!!

You mention that she is the alpha, in terms of work etc, and that you are doing all the work etc. Which to me seems like a little role reversal.

Have you ever considered that she may feel you are a little submissive in your role and her beta? Your trying all the nice things out, the massages, the foreplay, the rubbing of her hair and neck. And with no response from her. Have you ever considered that she may want you to step up to the plate and play the alpha male. She may feel that you need to take charge, make some demands, take some action. Dominate her and control her for a little while. Make her feel submissive for a change. Don’t ask her want she wants, tell her what you want. Show her some testosterone levels and be a man.

I say this because as a person with N.P.D, I can and often will dominate a situation. Whether it’s a meeting room discussion, or dance floor, or a topic at a party. I can and will dominate it. Although as a negative aspect of N.P.D, I am trying hard to control that urge and give other people a chance to input. You have said she is the Alpha. So I am guessing she wears the trousers and makes the decisions?

As generally an Alpha, I like to lead. But when it comes to sex, I love powerful dominant women, who are not afraid of initiating sex and having things there way. It’s refreshing not have to feel like I am making all the decisions. Like someone else is in control for a change. It’s like a holiday! And it makes me feel like they are interested in me and that satisfies my N.P.D supply.

I am only making a suggestion, but perhaps you could try to show her you can “man up” and show her that she isn’t always “the boss”. Stand up to her and show her your alpha side. You have to have one, she cannot of beaten it all out of you? Give her what she wants, but let her know that you’re expecting something back for change.

Catch her off guard, when she isn’t expecting it. Start with the nicely nicely approach. “I have run you a bath darling, here is a glass of wine” Get her a nice feminine dressing gown to wear after her bath, something silky will do. While she is the bath, get the lights off, some candles lit and some relaxing music playing quietly. Set the mood, set the ambience. So she at least starts to feel like a woman. Whatever you do, don’t ask her questions about how she is feeling, or if she wants anything else. If she asks for a book, your night is ruined! A complete role reversal. Don’t ask her if she is enjoying something. Don’t wait for a response, assume she is enjoying it. If she isn’t saying no, then assume she is liking what is happening. Tickle her hair for no more than a couple of minutes, your trying to arouse her, not put her to sleep. Don’t shave for a day or two and gently rub her neck with your stubble, and then on to her shoulders, then down her back. Stimulate her with manliness.

Then move on to other areas. There are lots of interesting ones on a woman’s body. Whatever you don’t ever ask a woman, “if you like it”? that’s the most off putting thing ever. Some women just don’t want to talk about things during sex, they just want the man, to be the man and take the lead. Assume she is enjoying it, make her enjoy it. Dominate her for a change. And when you have finished, don’t roll over and go to sleep. Tell her you’re not done yet and start her going all over again. The skin is the largest erogenous zone of the body, use it to your advantage for a change. Make her feel submissive and make her respect you and make her respect that sexually you’re the man, no matter what job you do at home.

N.P.D’s don’t give out respect. You have to earn it if you want it. Sexually you have to earn this woman’s desire. And if you can do that, then your life with her will be better.

It could be worth a shot.
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Re: Getting a narcissist "in the mood"

Postby deepwater2011 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:02 pm

Hey there,

I am giving this a shot. The post title pulled me in.

I am female, in my 40's, and a fan of sex, so you know. Qualified to have an opinion is what I am saying. Married to someone who also has no problem indulging, or in doing a good job of it from my perspective. I am the Non, he is exhibiting NPD stuff lately, and had N traits before the NPD behavior, if any of that matters to you.

I will get straight to some suggestions, in no particular order.

First, considerations to, well, consider:

She could be premenopausal, and this could have been affecting her for years. it can last up to ten years or so, and affect hormone levels dramatically, whether there are signs of menopause or not. Some people hit that pretty early. Don't discount it. Read up on it instead.

She could be low in testosterone levels, or some other hormone, whether considered a "male" or "female" or neutral one...we all have some of each. I had a hard spell with an exhusband, emotional dry spell, didn't want sex, told my doctor, got tested, was found to be low on testosterone, got a prescription...damn this is just Viagra without the name, and works for women too. Really works, fast and intense. Long term use has bad side effects, like growing facial hair as a risk, so I only used it a few times, and it jump started me again.

It doesn't necessarily have to do with any N stuff, but that is just a hunch. I have nothing to back that up with.

It could just be who she is physiologically, which I know wouldn't be good news.

It could all be psychological, but I doubt that. I think we are sexual animals, and something is amiss in the physiology.

OK, suggestions:

Can you discuss it with her? I agree it is a very touchy subject and it may be a bad idea. But do you have anything to lose at this point? A lot depends on the approach as well. I would rather hear "hey, what makes you feel loved, sexy, etc. What turns you on? Hit me with it, I want to turn you on" than "Can you tell me why you don't seem to want sex?", no matter how nice your tone is.

How about you identifying what she does get excited about, sexual component or not, and work with that, like the comment on being turned on by traveling and hotels? Get her heart rate and emotions up some other way and use that excitement and physiology to segway into something physical?

How about exercising together, with the same end result?

I agree that going alpha on her may work, especially if it is a surprise to her in the timing, or based upon your personality, but I suggest you back off immediately if you get the faintest bad vibe in her, and don't see it as a sign she wants to put up fake resistance. That is too risky to assume.

The surprise element could be good in other ways...bring a new transition, place, technique, timing, something into it?

I suggest no mental games, like pretending you are happy without sex, or starting to indulge yourself without her to make her jealous, etc. It may work for some people, but I personally don't like game playing, and especially with sex. That's just me.

I was going to suggest touching her a lot to get her Oxytocin level higher, which is a bonding hormone that promotes safe and pleasurable feelings between not just humans but animals as well. It is a scientifically tested physiological and emotional response, and one of the reasons hospitals have programs for regularly having people hold orphaned babies, and senior care homes get people with dogs and cats to come in so the patients can stroke them. But your description of her response to your attention sounds bleak there. Again, I am left wondering about a physiological blockage that isn't allowing her to get the pleasure messages to her brain. There are tests and drugs for that, if she is willing.

I would consider taking Ecstacy as an option if it were my problem and my partner was willing. It is something I have never tried but heard good things about, for some people, from everyone who has taken it. But that comes with a lot of warnings and some side effects of note, and you get to look those up yourself. I will not suggest it to you now, don't want the responsibility of that. You can infer the suggestion to you, which is out of my control!

Same goes for some old fashioned herb. MOre caveats. Just on my own list, if I was trying anything and everything. With some old trippy music that would mean something to her. I mean for me and my partner.

Use any aphrodesiacs that are easy to come by. Look them up, they come in foods, especially chocolate for most females. Serotonin increases are good for feeling in a loving, peaceful mood. Chocolate, especially dark chocolate increases levels in the blood.

Don't discount anything that could trigger the right physiological response in her. Some people react strongly (tested stuff, really) to certain colors, scents, memories (photos), clothes, fetish triggers, sounds, and so on.

Rack your brain for what gets her emotional, ANY emotion. Because when the body feels strong emotions, certain processes are started in the brain, and elevated heart rates or adrenaline may translate into an opportunity to guide it towards sex. Be creative here. Learn the physiology (that theme of mine again, one of my interests I have read a lot about) of arousal and build on that. Arousal happens in anticipation of sex, but also during a fight, when a bit fearful or anxious, during exercise, in a lot of situations. Use what her body will do naturally in such circumstances and see if you can divert it into an unexpected outcome.

What about any indications she has given about other people she finds attractive or sexy, like her favorite movie star or musician? Rent a movie with them in it, play that music, use whatever that may spark to your own benefit. To generalize (a lot), if most men use porn (as in visuals of other women, not their wives) to sometimes get warmed up (FOR their wives), and don't see anything wrong with that (some wives would, but some wouldn't, and that's a different topic), can you flip that scenario, supply the stimulus (for her) voluntarily yourself, have no ego problems with that, and just enjoy the result if it works?

OK, the other side of this...looking at you now instead of her. To put it gently, perhaps consider not just her "state" but what you can bring to this as well...

Without selling out, changing yourself if it makes you feel uncomfortable to do so, etc., is there anything you can take a look at honestly and consider you can change or freshen up from your end that is in the realm of things we don't normally want to think about?

HA, I need to do this myself, now that I said that out loud...

Things like:
-go get yourself a new outfit she wouldn't expect of you, one that makes you look hot.
-Anything related to physical appearance you may want to play with, for her AND you
-Are you giving off any vibe of neediness, desperation, impatience etc. that (granted, this may overlap with her mindset/issues too) that may be rubbing her the wrong way? Not to say anything like that is bad, or surprising or unjustified given the situation...just saying are you willing to look at such things? Are they a factor perhaps? Hard to mask things, but if you want bottom line results, are willing to look at everything you can, are OK putting natural ego responses aside, you may come up with something you will gladly experiment with changing up. Hope that didn't sound crass.

Hard subject to discuss, and that took guts to post, so even though as I wrote I felt uncomfortable myself, I thought I would give it a shot and suggest some things. Hope you find what to do...
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Re: Getting a narcissist "in the mood"

Postby lovemynarc » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:29 pm

@deepwater

Thank you so much for your input. A lot of really interesting and useful suggestions for me to think about!
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Re: Getting a narcissist "in the mood"

Postby Giantmidget » Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:31 am

I would like to say that my GF is the same way in a sense. She feels as if she doesn't need to do anything to get in the mood. I have done all the arrangemwnts and all of the work. I just wish there was more me in her life. I try so hard to show her the things that break us apart but there like grains of salt to her and she dilutes my entire life. I'm tired of crying over it.
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Re: Getting a narcissist "in the mood"

Postby PamHelf » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:33 am

I agree with whoever said that the worst thing you can do is let an N know you need or like anything - not least sex - as it becomes a tool for them to with hold to manipulate you.

Amongst other things you could try, you could go for a bit of reverse psychology.

Tell her that for some reason (it has to be unrelated to her and cannot import any criticism or any suggestion you don't want sex) that you cannot have sex with her for a reasonable period of time eg. two weeks or a month. For example, say you are training for 10k run in a months time and you have been told it's important to abstain from sex to improve your performance and apologise a lot but say you can't have sex with her.

Bet you she'll rise to the challenge.
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