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Questions About Relationships From Nons

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Re: Questions About Relationships From Nons

Postby BlankSpace » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:01 pm

Question: can a narcissist suffer from trauma bonding after mutually abusive relationship?

Background: BPD here, freshly out of 5-year whirlwind romance with a Narc. Our was kind of a texbook example of a match made in hell: speedy start, crazy infatuation, fantastic sex, me pushing, him pulling, million break-ups and make-ups.

After the first time he left me, I did my homework - started with yoga, meditation, weight loss - all with the intention to get him back. And I did. Second idealisation cycle lasted until I started being clingy and needy again... I always knew that was something wrong with me, but it worked in my advantage, so I didn't care much. At that time, I did my research, self-diagnosed as a BPD and started a therapy.
Although he had a history of failed marriages, jobs, projects, relationships... it never occurred to me that there's something off about him, off enough that it could be named.

After we reunited, I stopped everything and went back to my main activity: to prevent him from leaving ever again.. and of course, not being able to regulate own emotions, I did everything I wasn't supposed to do. He started withdrawing, and finally left for good, started NC, but made sure I was informed he fell in love with somebody else less than a month after our breakup.

Although I feel desperate, angry and betrayed, this time I did enough research on narcissism that I'd be reluctant to take him back, although I still want him more than anything.
I'm also pissed off because I am normally in control, nobody ever left me, and some of my exes from 10-20 years ago are sill trying to get him back. Did I just taste my own medicine? Can a Narc really turn his back on his Borderline without second thought, because it seems nobody else can?
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Re: Questions About Relationships From Nons

Postby Akuma » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:42 am

Question: can a narcissist suffer from trauma bonding after mutually abusive relationship?


What I have found after several years of witnessing pwBPD/pwHPD issues on the forum is what Lachkar also describes in her book on the NPD/BPD couples: namely that its practically exclusively the pwBPD who is focusing on bonding/attachment issues and often then also projecting parts of that onto their partner. Its simply such an essential aspect of their illness that togetehr with thei proneness to splitting and projection they often can't even fathom that other people don't have this issues or that for them its not that relevant, while in truth its quite the opposite. Its their focus on that stuff which is the exception. Its part of the "traumatic bonding" or I would prefer calling it repetition-compulsion in Borderliners to try over and over again relationship patterns that dont work and then to be unable to realize that due to the splitting and projection cutting up the reality in such small pieces that they cant see the whole image.
Now repetition-compulsion of course exists in pwNPD, too. I for example always had a compulsion to start idealizign people I cant have, it seems some magical, masochistic thing in the absence of a loved person, like my caregivers who were always absent and very rarely there for me. But this might also be a good example why I dont think this type of "trauma bonding" is the same as in pwBPD, because I "bond" purely to internal images. pwBPD bond to split external ones. I think from the perspective of the pwBPD it would be accurate to say that the pwNPD does nto bond with you types at all, ever. It might seem like it, even stronger because your illness makes it hard to see how it really is, but there rarely is any bonding at all, its purely internal images and you either fit or you dont.

Can a Narc really turn his back on his Borderline without second thought, because it seems nobody else can?


Borderliners illnes is very destructive to their relationships with others and to their significant others, so the illness creates exactly the abandonment they are afraid of. So its not about NPD or not, everyone will turn his back on Borderliners at some point, thats why its so important for you people to realize how you influence the outside world and to work on getting better.
dx: dissociative disorder + npd
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Re: Questions About Relationships From Nons

Postby BlankSpace » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:29 am

Akuma wrote:
What I have found after several years of witnessing pwBPD/pwHPD issues on the forum is what Lachkar also describes in her book on the NPD/BPD couples: namely that its practically exclusively the pwBPD who is focusing on bonding/attachment issues and often then also projecting parts of that onto their partner. Its simply such an essential aspect of their illness that togetehr with thei proneness to splitting and projection they often can't even fathom that other people don't have this issues or that for them its not that relevant, while in truth its quite the opposite. Its their focus on that stuff which is the exception. Its part of the "traumatic bonding" or I would prefer calling it repetition-compulsion in Borderliners to try over and over again relationship patterns that dont work and then to be unable to realize that due to the splitting and projection cutting up the reality in such small pieces that they cant see the whole image.
Now repetition-compulsion of course exists in pwNPD, too. I for example always had a compulsion to start idealizign people I cant have, it seems some magical, masochistic thing in the absence of a loved person, like my caregivers who were always absent and very rarely there for me. But this might also be a good example why I dont think this type of "trauma bonding" is the same as in pwBPD, because I "bond" purely to internal images. pwBPD bond to split external ones. I think from the perspective of the pwBPD it would be accurate to say that the pwNPD does nto bond with you types at all, ever. It might seem like it, even stronger because your illness makes it hard to see how it really is, but there rarely is any bonding at all, its purely internal images and you either fit or you dont.


What you wrote resonates very well with me, although I find it heartbreaking, as it makes me question if that bond - the only thing I ever wanted, was ever there.
Most of the time, his reality seemed impenetrable to me, and I did everything to get under his skin. So, if it wasn’t a bond, why did it always seemed I had an immense power over him - the power to change his thoughts and perception of reality? I was often accused of being overwhelming, he was telling me that, once I show up, being so intense, all the other aspects of his life crumble down, he looses the ability to follow his own thought process and he adopts mine instead. Short-term, it was making me feeling safe, because I was aware that, by having the ability to impact his internal narrative was giving me power to manipulate / keep him, while, long-term it was scary because I knew he hated it more than anything and that, sooner or later, he was going to find the strength to break free and escape into his mental cave.

Borderliners illnes is very destructive to their relationships with others and to their significant others, so the illness creates exactly the abandonment they are afraid of. So its not about NPD or not, everyone will turn his back on Borderliners at some point, thats why its so important for you people to realize how you influence the outside world and to work on getting better.


Nobody ever turned their back on me, probably because I never allowed myself to be vulnerable and was the first one to do it.
This time, I chose someone who was emotionally unavailable, knowing he “the abandoner”. Maybe it was me, but I suppose that the idea that two sick people could form a healthy relationship was doomed from the very beginning.
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Re: Questions About Relationships From Nons

Postby shanzeek » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:54 am

Akuma wrote: everyone will turn his back on Borderliners at some point


This sounds rather cruel. :? I guess it is true without working on getting better.

I for example always had a compulsion to start idealizing people I cant have, it seems some magical, masochistic thing in the absence of a loved person, like my caregivers who were always absent and very rarely there for me.

This is very familiar. Once the illusion becomes reality, I chicken out and run away. I seem to prefer illusions. Btw, to what extent do you think is idealization a normal process? I've opened a thread about this once, but never heard your opinion on it. How does one work on not indulging these fantasies? The more I rely on rationality, the less problems I've been having in life/relationships, but I do miss the old spontaneous me who simply followed her feelings and enjoyed life more (and was later picking up shattered pieces of herself lol, yes).
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Re: Questions About Relationships From Nons

Postby Akuma » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:27 pm

shanzeek wrote:
Akuma wrote: everyone will turn his back on Borderliners at some point


This sounds rather cruel. :? I guess it is true without working on getting better.


"Stop Walking On Eggshells" comes to mind.

This is very familiar. Once the illusion becomes reality, I chicken out and run away. I seem to prefer illusions. Btw, to what extent do you think is idealization a normal process? I've opened a thread about this once, but never heard your opinion on it. How does one work on not indulging these fantasies? The more I rely on rationality, the less problems I've been having in life/relationships, but I do miss the old spontaneous me who simply followed her feelings and enjoyed life more (and was later picking up shattered pieces of herself lol, yes).


Idealization is normal in toddlers and when people have just fallen in love. Outside of that I think its per se pathological. Including Beliebers and $#%^ lol. It would be interesting though if there is validatable differences in the idealization of being in love with pathological ones.
As to the aliveness, well it sounds like you are blocking your emotional side, that certainly will create a bblockage of drives also and lead to less aliveness. If you are in therapy that might be a useful tool on the road thoough as long as it doesnt become as extreme as with me where you feel nothing at all anymore >_>. I kinda think its not the feeligns themselves that are the problem but the inner ideas they are based on that are so baby-like and not fitting for adult life. Those are hard to grasp and change tho.
This is actualyl also a problematic paradox, if your way of dealing with certain drives is fantassy based on infantile - err - fantasy... then what else can you do except for either indulging, creating a load of problems, or blocking it. I'm having the problem right now as I'm trying to get someone out of my head and it really both feels wrong. Or well the indulging feels right, but they are both crap nonetheless. Also the blocking of course, you are not just blockign a person, or a thought, you are blocking a whoel package, and the blocking itself might carry some unconscious baggage in terms of "being at fault for being abandoned" which then might create psychosomatic issues and so on.
Ugh people who are normal dont know what they got.
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Re: Questions About Relationships From Nons

Postby whiteeyed » Sun May 20, 2018 1:46 pm

My suggestion to all those inquiring about relationships with a narcissist is to move, cut off ties in whatever way necessary, and begin dating people who seem neither way too into you or way too averse to you. Move into a healthy gray area. Slowly you will remember what regular relationships should be like. No, they are not obsessive or intense, but they do make sense. Perhaps begin taking an antidepressant on top of that, they lend your decisions more staying power.

Thankfully I will be going to college this summer so I can finally escape the lure of my covert narc's attraction. He is a stalker, believes he is a prophet, a teacher at my high school, and has preyed on me from the age of 15 onward. I fell in love with how he seemed to "love" me and his apparent ability to be quite emotional and intense. I wrote him love letters, which he punished me for, and then was stalked by him for many months. He still, occasionally, turns up in my backyard. He is aware both that I have been previously abused in the manner that he was as a child and that I have suffered a psychotic break due to him. This does not stop him. I have never hated anyone more.

This may sound like an extreme case, but please be aware that every narc, no matter how reasonable they may seem, is capable of completely losing their $#%^ in ways far more dangerous than BPDers. They are unsafe, particularly when they begin to glorify their own ability to manipulate and cause others pain. Every narc is unpredictable enough to suddenly surprise you with the horrible truth that they have been [mod edit], stealing your money, or manipulating you into believing that love is weakness, cruelty is power. Ironically, this cruelty occurs because they are terrified of love. The further from the relationship you get, the more you will become baffled by human kindness and see the power, not weakness, in it.

Get out now. It is only a matter of time before your own personality becomes infected with narcissistic tendencies. It probably already is. The earlier you leave the better. No person is worth owning you; no matter how dazzling that hit of love.

BTW:
- I am not codependent and I do not have BPD, so I am speaking from a place of privilege. There was a time in the relationship in which I had many BPD-related traits, but as I have extracted myself from it, these traits have fallen away and I have come out stronger and more self-assured than before. I see this as something any codependent or BPDer can do as well with enough will.
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