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Omnipotence and Lying

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Omnipotence and Lying

Postby ThisEndUp » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:58 am

I have a question for those with NPD. I imagine most people would consider someone who was omnipotent or better then others as having a higher MORAL fiber or character. Yet Narcissists lie. They lie to others, lie to themselves, their false self is a lie. So how can an N consider themselves better then anyone if they lie so much? Lying is certainly a flaw. And I would think that to be omnipotent one would have to be be perfect, and to be perfect why would one have to or chose to lie? Logically it just makes no sense. My ex is an N. Liar is the very best word in the english language that I could use to describe him. How can an N feel good about themself being a liar? Even if they dont see the harm in lying to others what about the harm in lying to themselves? My understanding is Ns know right from wrong, but do they really with respect to lying and if so do they care? I am very curous how Ns view lying and how it shapes their lives and if they see how it impacts them negatively.
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Re: Omnipotence and Lying

Postby undenied » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:36 am

You are confusing a mental illness with a character flaw.

There's a few other answers, more specifically. One, many of the "lies" Narcs tell, they aren't even aware they're doing it. They believe it 100%...at the time. They are not wired to be able to see the contradiction, even a few moments later.

Two, for similar reasons, if an N lies intentionally, they already feel justified for it. BECAUSE they're better, it's okay for them to lie, you see. "Better" is something physically inherent in them, not a cause-and-effect from good behavior or morals or such.
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Re: Omnipotence and Lying

Postby ThisEndUp » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:20 am

Interesting...... so are you saying that if an N lies intentionally its not a moral thing in the same way I would see it , because basically he's god and he decides what is good and what is bad in his world?

And are you saying Ns have no understanding of truth in any realistic sense? I am trying to understand because to me the truth is something that is very structured or solid in a way because its based in fact moreso then opinion.

I get that fact that someone can lie so much they don't know fact from fiction. But didn't think Ns were that far gone really.

Thanks


undenied wrote:You are confusing a mental illness with a character flaw.

There's a few other answers, more specifically. One, many of the "lies" Narcs tell, they aren't even aware they're doing it. They believe it 100%...at the time. They are not wired to be able to see the contradiction, even a few moments later.

Two, for similar reasons, if an N lies intentionally, they already feel justified for it. BECAUSE they're better, it's okay for them to lie, you see. "Better" is something physically inherent in them, not a cause-and-effect from good behavior or morals or such.
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Re: Omnipotence and Lying

Postby NotMyUsualUserName » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:31 am

undenied wrote:There's a few other answers, more specifically. One, many of the "lies" Narcs tell, they aren't even aware they're doing it. They believe it 100%...at the time. They are not wired to be able to see the contradiction, even a few moments later.

Two, for similar reasons, if an N lies intentionally, they already feel justified for it. BECAUSE they're better, it's okay for them to lie, you see. "Better" is something physically inherent in them, not a cause-and-effect from good behavior or morals or such.


You said what I was going to. So I second your post.
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Re: Omnipotence and Lying

Postby Twistedmister » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:38 am

This has little to do with Narcs.......but:


because basically he's god and he decides what is good and what is bad in his world?

And are you saying Ns have no understanding of truth in any realistic sense?





Truth in a realistic sense? That's like beauty in a realistic sense..........you get to decide that. Whether you do it actively.........or passively...........


Everyone is "god" and decides what is good or bad in their world.........they just again, do it actively....or passively.
Passively........is using the opinions of your friends/neighbours/the news/the bible/the qu'ran or whatever....to substitute or augment your own judgement..........to what level, is the level you get to see yourself as an independent thinker......



So...........as a non-Narc. but a fairly closely related, BPD/HPD..........which may be more relevant to you, cause i feel what you would call guilt occasionally............

Often i lie.......and don't consider it a lie. "it could be true"............If i say, i make 100,000 a year.....but only make 50,000.......it's not a lie, cause i could of spent that extra 2 years at school and gotten a better degree.
If i lie........and say "i love you" well it's not a lie, cause i love your breasts......and your breasts are a part of you? Aren't they?


And often in those times........i really am not aware that they are lies..........because those things are true.........
The conscious part of me..........thinks they are true.

So i imagine, an N.......is just a deeper sense of that.


And again.......to get back to the better part, yes........I'm allowed to lie........it's me afterall. If you lie, i can never trust you.........but if i lie, well i can still trust me???? Can't I????
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Re: Omnipotence and Lying

Postby Run » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:46 am

ThisEndUp wrote:I have a question for those with NPD. I imagine most people would consider someone who was omnipotent or better then others as having a higher MORAL fiber or character. Yet Narcissists lie. They lie to others, lie to themselves, their false self is a lie. So how can an N consider themselves better then anyone if they lie so much? Lying is certainly a flaw. And I would think that to be omnipotent one would have to be be perfect, and to be perfect why would one have to or chose to lie? Logically it just makes no sense. My ex is an N. Liar is the very best word in the english language that I could use to describe him. How can an N feel good about themself being a liar? Even if they dont see the harm in lying to others what about the harm in lying to themselves? My understanding is Ns know right from wrong, but do they really with respect to lying and if so do they care? I am very curous how Ns view lying and how it shapes their lives and if they see how it impacts them negatively.


Like this person. It's hot news in the Netherlands:

Meat eaters absolved, professor in the dock - 08-09-2011

Are you a meat eater? Then you can breathe a sigh of relief: you are not a selfish bastard.

When the papers one and all published social psychologist’s Diederik Stapel's findings, vegetarians the world over tucked contentedly into their tofu. They had known all along and now science had confirmed it: you can’t trust a meat eater. They think about a juicy steak and, boom, they turn into selfish bastards.

Their joy didn’t last very long, however. This week, Stapel (45) was shopped by two fellow researchers who thought his methods, although not unheard of in the scientific world, were a little unorthodox: Stapel made up his own data. He also made up a student who collated the non existent data.

The Gelderlander was one of the few papers who questioned the validity of the findings. It asked Stapel’s research partner social psychologist Roos Vonk, who is a vegetarian, if the research could possibly have been biased. At the time Vonk huffily dismissed this possibility as ‘insulting’ and described herself and her fellow researchers as ‘experienced scientists with an excellent track record’.

Vonk has since apologised to the paper. ‘It goes to show that even psychologists can be completely wrong about people’, she said ruefully. She didn’t like to speculate why Stapel, who has agreed to step down from his job at Tilburg University, did what he did.

Meanwhile Stapel’s webpage at the university has been removed. The prestigious professor has become a figure of shame.

It turns out that his fellow scientists had been harbouring suspicions for some time. But jealousy is no stranger to academia and Stapel published ‘very frequently and appeared on television programmes’. Some of his research subjects - a messy room makes people aggressive, beautiful people have better chances in life – must have grated on scientific sensibilities, however.

So why did he do it? Does he hate meat eaters? Or does he suffer from DSK syndrome and think he can get away with anything? Maybe someone should do the research.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/features/2011/09/meat_eaters_absolved_professor.php

I think it has to do with power. They calculate and think: 'everybody believes me, nobody dares to critizise me, and if they do I have a lot of fans who will defend me. I can lie, I will get away with it.'

And in fact I think a lot of these people get away with it, their whole live.
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Re: Omnipotence and Lying

Postby Run » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:59 am

Twistedmister wrote:
And again.......to get back to the better part, yes........I'm allowed to lie........it's me afterall. If you lie, i can never trust you.........but if i lie, well i can still trust me???? Can't I????


Imagine you are on a datingsite, and you have contact with someone who asks you: Are you trustworthy?
What would be your answer?
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Re: Omnipotence and Lying

Postby Wantingtohelp » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:09 am

Ah, lying and the narcissist.

My ex-husband who was bpd and npd has lied repeatedly.

Even after he was caught red-handed, with no way for him to dispute the evidence he would lie.

Some of his favorite sayings were:

were that he "could lie to himself and make himself believe the lie was truth" .... (he was quite proud of this logic) so to him, if had to lie, he just made himself believe it was true. See, he wasn't lying? (in his mind only)

Another famous line "No one is promised they won't be deceived" (to me, during his affair, as I was bringing up evidence) . Somehow, I think he thought this little tidbit of twisted logic justified his lying. And I think it was a sneaky way of "confessing" lol.

Six months after the the divorce that the cheating brought about, and he was begging for me back.....I brought up him lying to me about the affair, it was he "didn't see it was lying, because I had suspected he was cheating !" : \ ( I can't believe he actually had the audacity to ask for me back!)

I can laugh at this now, as he just seemed absurd, but I think it is a good into how their mind justifies lying.
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Postby ThisEndUp » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:54 pm

:D
Last edited by ThisEndUp on Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Omnipotence and Lying

Postby tomster » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:02 pm

Wantingtohelp wrote:Ah, lying and the narcissist.

My ex-husband who was bpd and npd has lied repeatedly.

Even after he was caught red-handed, with no way for him to dispute the evidence he would lie.

Some of his favorite sayings were:

were that he "could lie to himself and make himself believe the lie was truth" .... (he was quite proud of this logic) so to him, if had to lie, he just made himself believe it was true. See, he wasn't lying? (in his mind only)

Another famous line "No one is promised they won't be deceived" (to me, during his affair, as I was bringing up evidence) . Somehow, I think he thought this little tidbit of twisted logic justified his lying. And I think it was a sneaky way of "confessing" lol.

Six months after the the divorce that the cheating brought about, and he was begging for me back.....I brought up him lying to me about the affair, it was he "didn't see it was lying, because I had suspected he was cheating !" : \ ( I can't believe he actually had the audacity to ask for me back!)

I can laugh at this now, as he just seemed absurd, but I think it is a good into how their mind justifies lying.


I do the lying thing, but to myself - i.e (saying I've had paracetamol when trying to get to sleep)

It's not a good thing really.. but meh.
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