Our partner

Questions about projection and gaslighting.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder message board, open discussion, and online support group.

Moderators: mark1958, Echinacea, realityhere

Questions about projection and gaslighting.

Postby The Devil You Don't » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:48 pm

Any thoughts on how it works in the N's head when he starts making projection and just blaming you and accusing you of everything *he* did to you?

Is he aware that what he is saying makes no sense? And that it's all backward? And that *he* is actually the one who did this?

This is insane... I just stopped arguying and backed off cause it was making no sense.

He does something and when I point it out to him, then he says I'm the one who did it.

Is this what we call gaslighting?

Any more informations on gaslighting would be very welcome.

I'm aware of what he is trying to do, but what I would like to know is if *he* is aware that I can see it, and that it makes no sense?

Is he ever lucid about what he is doing and that it's actually the contrary that happened?

What's the purpose of telling someone that they did something when it's clear that it's the contrary?

Thanks!
The Devil You Don't
Consumer 2
Consumer 2
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:21 am
Local time: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:39 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)


ADVERTISEMENT

Re: Questions about projection and gaslighting.

Postby Lunar5 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:19 pm

Gaslighting is all about the narc trying to get you to doubt your own perceptions and undermine your confidence. With that in mind its irrelevant to the narcissist whether what he says or does is rational as long as he gets the desired effect which includes side stepping any responsibility for his behaviour. I expect different narcs have diffirent levels of awareness over what they are doing.

Narcs often project their negative behaviours on to a person and then relate to them in such a way that superficially that person behaves the way projected eg. The narcissist calls the person hostile and then disrespects them in a deniable (eg.subtle and implicit) way until they become angry and start behaving with hostility-projective identification. Its another way to confuse the victim and make them doubt themselves
There is nothing noble about being superior to some other person.  The true nobility is in being superior to your previous self. 
Lunar5
Consumer 2
Consumer 2
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:00 pm
Local time: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:39 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Questions about projection and gaslighting.

Postby katana » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:50 pm

Agree with Lunar5 -

Gaslighting, I imagine a person would know they are doing.

Projection, i imagine would be subconscious. I don't know if anyone can help clarify ?
katana
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 9013
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:05 pm
Local time: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:39 am
Blog: View Blog (2)

Re: Questions about projection and gaslighting.

Postby Chic Geek » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:25 am

Lunar5 wrote:Gaslighting is all about the narc trying to get you to doubt your own perceptions and undermine your confidence. With that in mind its irrelevant to the narcissist whether what he says or does is rational as long as he gets the desired effect which includes side stepping any responsibility for his behaviour. I expect different narcs have diffirent levels of awareness over what they are doing.


This is fascinating. I never knew it had a name. I have Asperger's and I am an extremely rational thinker and my ex was a Narc. He used to do this all the time. I would have actual physical evidence of something that happened and he would flat out deny it. I know he did it because it infuriated me.


Narcs often project their negative behaviours on to a person and then relate to them in such a way that superficially that person behaves the way projected eg. The narcissist calls the person hostile and then disrespects them in a deniable (eg.subtle and implicit) way until they become angry and start behaving with hostility-projective identification. Its another way to confuse the victim and make them doubt themselves


My ex used to "bait" me by egging me on, not leaving me alone, follow me around, start calling his mommy to make me try to grab the phone and then fake an injury, call the cops and have me arrested. This happened on three or four occasions.
Chic Geek
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 642
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:16 am
Local time: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:39 pm
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Questions about projection and gaslighting.

Postby The Devil You Don't » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:24 am

Lunar5 wrote:Gaslighting is all about the narc trying to get you to doubt your own perceptions and undermine your confidence. With that in mind its irrelevant to the narcissist whether what he says or does is rational as long as he gets the desired effect which includes side stepping any responsibility for his behaviour. I expect different narcs have diffirent levels of awareness over what they are doing.

Narcs often project their negative behaviours on to a person and then relate to them in such a way that superficially that person behaves the way projected eg. The narcissist calls the person hostile and then disrespects them in a deniable (eg.subtle and implicit) way until they become angry and start behaving with hostility-projective identification. Its another way to confuse the victim and make them doubt themselves


Wow... I am fascinated by this. What mastermind games they play.

Thank you for your answer, I will save it.

I still wonder how lucid and aware they are about actually doing this to people.
The Devil You Don't
Consumer 2
Consumer 2
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:21 am
Local time: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:39 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Questions about projection and gaslighting.

Postby The Devil You Don't » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:36 am

imnotnuts wrote:I would have actual physical evidence of something that happened and he would flat out deny it. I know he did it because it infuriated me.


How can they deny something that's right in their face for instance?
I mean, I know they do it! But how do they *feel* about doing it and while doing it?
Don't they feel stupid for trying to prove something is blue when it's clear to everybody that it's not?

I would like to know how they feel while they are doing it.
No embarrassment? No shame for lying blatantly, but mostly stupidly (when we can see clearly that they are full of sh.it) in front of someone?

imnotnuts wrote:My ex used to "bait" me by egging me on, not leaving me alone, follow me around, start calling his mommy to make me try to grab the phone and then fake an injury, call the cops and have me arrested. This happened on three or four occasions.


He did the same to me. I refuses to answer his calls, so he waited for me before work, followed me in stores while I had to do errands and kept whispering nasty things like I was a slut, etc... no one else could hear him but me and all I wanted to do is punch him right in the face and tell him to f.uck off.

If I would have done that, he would have stepped back and act all freaked out like I was an abuser and he didn't know who I was. Ass.hole.

He followed me inside my work building once, and had the nerve to try to get in the elevator with me, I told him to get lost and he continues until I got so mad I actually yelled at the security guards to come and tell him to leave, then he laughed lightly, all smile and told the security guard that we were just newlyweds and having a little argument! ha hahah ha so funny! *pukes* We weren't even a couple. I wanted to kill him.
Some co-workers saw this. Good thing they knew what a jerk he was.

They can be very dangerous.

-- Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:40 pm --

Thanks for your reply too, Katana.
The Devil You Don't
Consumer 2
Consumer 2
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:21 am
Local time: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:39 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Questions about projection and gaslighting.

Postby SailorChik » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:28 am

My N would contradict himself constantly, even in the same sentence. I never knew what to expect out of the guy. Our final, final exchange involved of all things, Facebook. He wrote on his page: "How do I unfriend somebody on Facebook?" This was aimed at me. I had finally told him what I thought about his outrageous behaviors. Look at some of my other posts for examples. So he was ticked off and sulking and attention whoring.

So I helped him out...I unfriended him! And I wrote him an email- told him ok you poor fool, you got what you asked for. Now leave me alone, no more hang-up calls and no more emails."

He wrote back: "I see you don't even want to be friends any more!"

A Narc will drive you to the brink of insanity if you allow them to.
SailorChik
Consumer 0
Consumer 0
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:20 am
Local time: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:39 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Questions about projection and gaslighting.

Postby The Devil You Don't » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:14 am

SailorChik wrote:My N would contradict himself constantly, even in the same sentence. I never knew what to expect out of the guy. Our final, final exchange involved of all things, Facebook. He wrote on his page: "How do I unfriend somebody on Facebook?" This was aimed at me. I had finally told him what I thought about his outrageous behaviors. Look at some of my other posts for examples. So he was ticked off and sulking and attention whoring.

So I helped him out...I unfriended him! And I wrote him an email- told him ok you poor fool, you got what you asked for. Now leave me alone, no more hang-up calls and no more emails."

He wrote back: "I see you don't even want to be friends any more!"

A Narc will drive you to the brink of insanity if you allow them to.


LMAO@what he wrote back hahahahaha It's priceless!

I must admit, it makes good stories to tell people :mrgreen:
The Devil You Don't
Consumer 2
Consumer 2
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:21 am
Local time: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:39 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Questions about projection and gaslighting.

Postby SailorChik » Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:47 am

The Devil You Don't wrote:
LMAO@what he wrote back hahahahaha It's priceless!

I must admit, it makes good stories to tell people :mrgreen:


Oh, yes, his behaviors are laughable once one realizes that none of it was personal- that he uses everyone in his life as a prop in his grand play.

Yes, the heartbreak was very real- he has a magnetic pull of some kind but when you step back and look at the behavior- it's sheer insanity.

He has a string of disastrous relationships in his wake, including a very messy divorce. He married late in life after years of carousing and doing his own thing- he is a merchant mariner- and he found married life and fatherhood constraining, so he accused his x wife of everything from jealousy to viciousness. His hostility culminated in domestic violence. He hit his step-daughter and then in a N rage ran out to the car where his wife was taking their son out of danger and he smashed the windshield with a chunk of wood. Of course this was all her fault as well. He is a victim, always.

He did say something revealing once: "All of the women I was involved with in my life told me I was mean." That was the only true thing I think he said in our five months together.

Of course, he attributed this to those evil women...it was never his fault.
SailorChik
Consumer 0
Consumer 0
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:20 am
Local time: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:39 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Questions about projection and gaslighting.

Postby Lunar5 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:18 pm

Any narcs out their to give us an analysis of whats going on in your head when you do this ?
There is nothing noble about being superior to some other person.  The true nobility is in being superior to your previous self. 
Lunar5
Consumer 2
Consumer 2
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:00 pm
Local time: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:39 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Next

Return to Narcissistic Personality Disorder Forum




  • Related articles
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 52 guests