Our partner

Sub-types of NPD.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder message board, open discussion, and online support group.

Moderators: mark1958, Echinacea, realityhere

Postby deadratt » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:35 am

I just found this intriguing dissertation. It appears to provide a good overview of the evolution of thought regarding narcissism.

He mostly discusses two subtypes classed as overt and covert.
deadratt
Consumer 1
Consumer 1
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:09 am
Local time: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)


ADVERTISEMENT

Postby deadratt » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:26 am

Speaking of Millon, here's the working link to his diagram of the narcissistic personality:

Functional and Structural Domains of the Confident/Narcissistic Personality
deadratt
Consumer 1
Consumer 1
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:09 am
Local time: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Sub-types of NPD.

Postby Bloom » Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:21 am

.
Last edited by Bloom on Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bloom
Consumer 3
Consumer 3
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:09 pm
Local time: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Sub-types of NPD.

Postby Paul Mansour » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:41 pm

Deadratt - thanks for the link to Michael Holdren's paper; I have just read the first thirty pages of it. It brought to mind a recent session I had with a psychotherapist employed by the university at which I am currently a part time student. We talked about personality disorders, and I expressed scepticism about the validity of the classification in DSM IV, because I could see quite plainly, elements of all three 'clusters' in my own disordered personality. She readily agreed, saying her view was that personality disorders are deeply embedded maladaptive 'scripts' that people develop, hold on to, and live by. Each person will forge their own unique 'script', formulated as a result of painful early life experiences, in the context of their individual neurological makeup. Hence it doesn't really make sense to try to erect a taxonomy of mutually exclusive, separate personality disorders (and this comes through in places in Holdren's thesis). Instead, we should say there are a number of recognisable elements which are commonly incorporated into people's scripts, but each person will have their own unique blend in their personal script. Have you come across this viewpoint, and what is your own view?

cheers
Paul
Paul Mansour
Consumer 0
Consumer 0
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:48 pm
Local time: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Sub-types of NPD.

Postby Normal? » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:36 pm

Hey Paul

That's a really interesting viewpoint and I'm sure it must have some validity - human beings are so complex aren't they and of course everyone's defences and motivations are different. Username feels there is also a genetic predisposition towards PD's and that must have some influence too?

Perhaps it is like an individual who has a problem with food:- they may become anorexic, bulimic, binge eat or go through a variety of all three positions during their life. They may even exercise manically. At the root of the problem though is the food? That being the case - what do you think is at the root of the cluster B disorders? Any ideas?
Last edited by Normal? on Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This should have been a noble creature:
A goodly frame of glorious elements,
Had they been wisely mingled; as it is,
It is an awful chaos—light and darkness,
And mind and dust, and passions and pure thoughts,
Mix’d, and contending without end or order,
All dormant or destructive.
Normal?
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 1218
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:59 pm
Local time: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Sub-types of NPD.

Postby deadratt » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:34 pm

Normal? wrote:Perhaps it is like an individual who has a problem with food:- they may become anorexic, bulimic, binge eat or go through a variety of all three positions during their life. They may even exercise manically. At the root of the problem though is the food? That being the case - what do you think is at the root of the cluster B disorders? Any ideas?


They are probably too complex to be boiled down to one thing, but my vote goes to attachment. Human bonding. Love. Whatever you'd like to call it. My understanding is that most of the personality disorders are chiefly evidenced in interpersonal relationships.

Similarly, you can't boil down an eating disorder to a problem with food (no pun). An addiction to the pleasure induced by food might be a component of bulimia, but anorexia is much more about self-image which has become predicated upon physical appearance. It's been argued that it can be a form of self-injury and -punishment. The anorexic is typically an obsessive perfectionist. Food is involved only as it relates to metabolism, esp. lipid production, thus relating to appearance. There might be an OCD-type anxiety component.
deadratt
Consumer 1
Consumer 1
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:09 am
Local time: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Sub-types of NPD.

Postby sfguy » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:37 am

deadratt wrote:They are probably too complex to be boiled down to one thing, but my vote goes to attachment. Human bonding. Love. Whatever you'd like to call it. My understanding is that most of the personality disorders are chiefly evidenced in interpersonal relationships.

They are evidenced most obviously in interpersonal relationships because that is the most directly observable aspect of a personality. But the fundamental disorder is lack of a stable sense of self. Attachment and interpersonal issues are just one part of the problem, the bigger problem is that a PD personal struggles with self-identity and can't know himself very well. It's impossible because he doesn't have a single stable personality, his instability makes him act like different people depending on state of mind. You could almost say it's a little bit like a mild form of multiple personality disorder, where different parts of your personality come and go (although unlike true MPD the personal still has a single continuous consciousness)
I think that's one of the fundamental causes of attachment issues that PDs have. Being in familiar, comfortable place surrounded by people and family and things you are comfortable with can eliminate a lot of the stresses that fling the unstable personality around. Having enough control of his surroundings to keep things stable makes it easier to deny the unstable personality, because external stability causes somewhat improved inner stability for as long as it lasts. Workoholism and serious hobbies can help too, I think of all these things as "anchors" that help me remember who I am without drifting too far into insanity.
Image
sfguy
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 1055
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:57 pm
Local time: Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:26 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Sub-types of NPD.

Postby Normal? » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:25 am

deadratt wrote:Similarly, you can't boil down an eating disorder to a problem with food (no pun).


Hey Deadratt

I was thinking more that the psychological problems are expressed through a relationship with food - and wondering which 'vehicle' NPD might use to do the same? I think Sfguy is right - it is in interpersonal relationships that NPD is most obviously manifested isn't it? They may be the 'conduit' through which NPD expresses itself.

sfguy75x wrote:It's impossible because he doesn't have a single stable personality, his instability makes him act like different people depending on state of mind. You could almost say it's a little bit like a mild form of multiple personality disorder, where different parts of your personality come and go (although unlike true MPD the personal still has a single continuous consciousness)


This is largely the 'root' of the problem I think. The lack of a 'stable' personality - and the awareness of this lack possibly - is at the core of NPD. I wonder if it is only the most self-aware Narcissists that realise the lack of correlation between what they say/think and their behaviour - or if they are all conscious of it to some degree. If so I expect that it is extremely frustrating and disorientating. I also wonder if the gap between the true and false self becomes more obvious as a Narcissist ages and recognises the 'flip-flopping' between one kind of behaviour and another.
Last edited by Normal? on Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This should have been a noble creature:
A goodly frame of glorious elements,
Had they been wisely mingled; as it is,
It is an awful chaos—light and darkness,
And mind and dust, and passions and pure thoughts,
Mix’d, and contending without end or order,
All dormant or destructive.
Normal?
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 1218
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:59 pm
Local time: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Sub-types of NPD.

Postby VTheChaosTheoryV » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:45 pm

I think this is based on Sam Vaknin's website. He points out there can be two distinct personality types in narcissists.
:arrow: -Somatic type: Obsessed based around beauty, ideal looks and so forth.
:arrow: -Cerebral type: Values their knowledge to an extreme.

:idea: Both characteristics can be present within the narcissist, but one may be more dominant than the other.
Trust all the things I tell you are true, dress up in your best so I can be proud of you, and never believe I won't turn on you, and never believe I do this for you. You're leading me on again and I find it, yeah I like it, and I'm reeling in awe for sure, now I know it was given to me.
VTheChaosTheoryV
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 1245
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:52 pm
Local time: Thu Oct 18, 2018 7:26 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Sub-types of NPD.

Postby digital.noface » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:13 am

VTheChaosTheoryV wrote:I think this is based on Sam Vaknin's website. He points out there can be two distinct personality types in narcissists.
:arrow: -Somatic type: Obsessed based around beauty, ideal looks and so forth.
:arrow: -Cerebral type: Values their knowledge to an extreme.

:idea: Both characteristics can be present within the narcissist, but one may be more dominant than the other.

Sam Vankin is a quack and a fool.
...
digital.noface
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 1578
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:58 am
Local time: Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Next

Return to Narcissistic Personality Disorder Forum




  • Related articles
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 55 guests