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Struggling

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Re: Struggling

Postby justonemoreperson » Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:28 pm

solemnlysworn wrote:I like hypotheticals

-- Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:02 am --

Isolating somebody so that they are totally dependent on you for their needs is probably more common than you might think


When it's put in those terms it appears to be hostile and manipulative, but it happens in all relationships.

Our friends are people who we relate to and demonstrate behaviour that we find rewarding in some way. We reward them for things that we agree with and punish them for things that we don't.

Rewards and punishments can be small; sometimes as simple as acknowledgement or criticism, but effectively we're controlling them through conditioning.

Very few people genuinely care more for someone else than they do for themselves, and so they will always try to create behaviours in others that benefit themselves.

It's coercive control, accepted by the other, providing that the social contract is mutual.
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Re: Struggling

Postby easiersaidthandone » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:57 pm

justonemoreperson wrote:effectively we're controlling them through conditioning.


I'd like to get better at this. Any advice?
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Re: Struggling

Postby xdude » Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:47 pm

I can only write from the point of view of many others trying to tell me, if you go through life only thinking about what is logical, and miss the emotional side, you will miss out.

It then just came down to I put my control aside, or listen to them.

Nobody can be changed by arguments, but taking a risk can pay off too.
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Re: Struggling

Postby solemnlysworn » Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:04 pm

xdude, after a cursory view of your comments on the previous page, I'm confused about to whom they are directed. It seems as though half of the conversation is missing
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Re: Struggling

Postby solemnlysworn » Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:19 pm

justonemoreperson wrote:
solemnlysworn wrote:Isolating somebody so that they are totally dependent on you for their needs is probably more common than you might think


When it's put in those terms it appears to be hostile and manipulative, but it happens in all relationships.


Sure. The scope here is of course in severity of pathology and behaviour. I write on a mental health forum about those who have NPD talking about it in a way that fits the condition. We all smile to get along and frown when we disapprove.

easiersaidthandone wrote:
justonemoreperson wrote:effectively we're controlling them through conditioning.


I'd like to get better at this. Any advice?


With a BDSM slant, The Control Book has some ritualised and conditioning aspects to slave-training that you might find insightful, if not a bit overdone. Mostly it's intuitive stuff but I suppose making it systematic is what you're asking since I think most people will realise that when you, for instance, only give somebody approval for certain favours, they will resort to them more often and enthusiastically for your approval.

xdude wrote:Nobody can be changed by arguments

I thoroughly disagree with this statement as it stands. You may want to extrapolate on it but it seems clear to me that I've changed lots based on arguments presented that challenge my worldview and people too are able to be swayed by argument. You mention the logical vs the emotional but I think this just implies argument is purely logic which surely isn't the case.
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Re: Struggling

Postby xdude » Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:42 pm

solemnlysworn wrote:xdude, after a cursory view of your comments on the previous page, I'm confused about to whom they are directed. It seems as though half of the conversation is missing


True, some bleeding over from some other convos I was engaged at the moment, one of which I was very pissy about. Good call.

Hey just another human.

Enjoying the topic and where it may go.
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Re: Struggling

Postby easiersaidthandone » Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:21 pm

Thanks ss
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Re: Struggling

Postby DaturaInnoxia » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:06 pm

solemnlysworn wrote:to whom they are directed


me
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Re: Struggling

Postby justonemoreperson » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:57 am

easiersaidthandone wrote:
justonemoreperson wrote:effectively we're controlling them through conditioning.


I'd like to get better at this. Any advice?


There's no one answer to this; it depends on the person and what you're hoping to achieve. Bearing in mind this is a long game. Subtlety is the key and it always carries the risk that if it's too intense you'll be found out.

People aren't as stupid as PD's tend to lead people to believe. People's intuition points them at inconsistencies in your behaviour and raises red flags if anything seems out of place or seems coercive.

Better to associate with people who don't need it.

Something to consider: if you spend a lot of your time trying to manipulate and coerce someone to do what you want, then they have your full attention. They're already controlling your behaviour.
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Re: Struggling

Postby DaturaInnoxia » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:46 am

solemnlysworn wrote:Do you both see much change in yourselves?


I'm wondering if you had anything to add about yourself in regards to this, or if you were just exploring your curiosity?
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