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Re: Struggling

Postby easiersaidthandone » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:49 am

justonemoreperson wrote:
easiersaidthandone wrote:I can't fathom how a person can seem to understand themselves yet still manage to be at war with their choices


I would think that a person would only be at war with their choices if they understand themselves.


The ignorant can't find the source of their negative emotions and goes through life like a rollercoaster ride. The introspective person can at least make peace with themselves through understanding, especially coming to accept one's flaws.
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Re: Struggling

Postby solemnlysworn » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:17 am

I'm not sure that understanding means accepting
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Re: Struggling

Postby justonemoreperson » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:52 am

Ignorant people blame outside influences for their behaviour. Yeah, they might be miserable but it's "not their fault," no matter how tenuous the connection. Self-indulgent naivety.

Understanding yourself is predominantly understanding what you can and can't do and how your weaknesses have caused you problems. How else could people attempt to learn and grow?

Only people who know themselves will be at war with their choices, because they recognise that they are in control of their lives.
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Re: Struggling

Postby cinnamoncookie » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:00 am

justonemoreperson wrote:Ignorant people blame outside influences for their behaviour. Yeah, they might be miserable but it's "not their fault," no matter how tenuous the connection. Self-indulgent naivety.

How ignorant can a normally functioning person be though? There must be some moments of clarity where they think or maybe feel at least they could be doing x or y differently in a situation but because they have a deeply ingrained habit of ignoring or reasoning themselves out of these kinds of thoughts, nothing happens. Because I think this by association I also believe almost every person has the ability to change as long as the right buttons are pushed. Do you think that's naive?

justonemoreperson wrote:Understanding yourself is predominantly understanding what you can and can't do and how your weaknesses have caused you problems. How else could people attempt to learn and grow?

IME that's not what most people mean when they say they understand themselves. They're rather talking about predictability of their own actions to themselves. Whether some of these predictions are self-fulfilling prophecies is up to the person, but as long as they don't recognize them as such, someone can seem like they understand themselves and be unhappy with the choices they make at the same time, also probably because of what I mentioned earlier.

justonemoreperson wrote:Only people who know themselves will be at war with their choices, because they recognise that they are in control of their lives.

You can understand yourself and not understand what you're in control of. So I don't agree with this.
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Re: Struggling

Postby easiersaidthandone » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:55 am

solemnlysworn wrote:I'm not sure that understanding means accepting


Then change. If you want something you do it. If it's hard then you don't really want change do you

No sense in bitching about it.

-- Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:01 pm --

justonemoreperson wrote:Only people who know themselves will be at war with their choices, because they recognise that they are in control of their lives.


Yeah that makes some sense but I can't relate to being ego dystonic

Actually I do have my own occasional struggles nothing big enough to post about though. I really look down on those who are out there about their issues because I've always kept mine close.
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Re: Struggling

Postby solemnlysworn » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:38 pm

“Just change” is a rational approach but you’ll find this will conflict with aspects of yourself while in the process of changing. Narcissists might find change that they consider rational or objectively better egodystonic. That period you’re talking about is exactly where change is taking place
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Re: Struggling

Postby easiersaidthandone » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:06 am

Call me pessimistic, I don't see people with personality problems change much at all. They go through periods of remission and relapse. Motivated to change then giving in to destructive habits. It's a pattern, and one you'll see them struggle with for life. The majority of changes I see are pwPDs simply getting older, that in itself causes change.
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Re: Struggling

Postby justonemoreperson » Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:58 am

solemnlysworn wrote:“Just change” is a rational approach but you’ll find this will conflict with aspects of yourself while in the process of changing.


True. It works better in hindsight and concept than practice.

I think I know myself quite well and I can look back at the negative stuff that's happened to me and I can reason through what I did that caused it. I don't internally blame others for things I chose to do, neither do I blame "society" or other vague constructs.

Also, if you give me a hypothetical situation, I can give you the right decision on what I should do.

However, that all goes down the pan once I'm in the situation. There's a disconnect between the rational side of my brain and the bit that just goes, "Do it!"

-- 18 Jan 2020, 06:59 --

easiersaidthandone wrote:Call me pessimistic, I don't see people with personality problems change much at all.


Agreed.
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Re: Struggling

Postby solemnlysworn » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:41 pm

Do you both see much change in yourselves?
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Re: Struggling

Postby justonemoreperson » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:42 am

solemnlysworn wrote:Do you both see much change in yourselves?


That's a good question. Realistically, I don't know. I think I'm more stable now than I've ever been, but I think that's more to do with environment than internal change.

That might well be the key to all of this: forget trying to change yourself, as that never works. Instead, create your environment to work for you.
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