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What is a narcissist anyway?

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What is a narcissist anyway?

Postby Ubinix800 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:44 am

I know what is classed as a one clinically speaking; need for attention, vanity, entitlement (whether overt of covert), excessive self-importance (probably to overcompensate for lack of self-worth) and low to no empathy -- although it will differ.

Yet, what exactly is a one? Someone on a different forum who became self-aware about being a vulnerable narcissist described it as feeling like an android who has just realized who and what he is for the first time.

When I felt self-aware, and believe me this is going to sound strange, and I don't know if this is due to identity issues or what, but it felt like there was this hidden aspect of myself inside of me, almost like a 'monster' of sorts that was always there with me but I never realized it (please tell me you know the feeling), so I get the whole android analogy. I felt mini-panic during that time, it's less of a fact that you dislike feeling narcissistic rather it completely conflicts with who you really are.

I guess I project a lot which is why I never knew before, but when you introspect you know there's something up.

So what is it? If someone just told you "it's required for healthy self-esteem" for the covert/comp type or for the overt/NPD type it's caused by upbringing or whatever, then that's fair enough but deep down in my own mind, it means something completely different.
BDD and vulnerable narcissism/avpd traits.
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Re: What is a narcissist anyway?

Postby SelfSerf » Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:52 pm

Yes, how you described your experience captures it perfectly. What I went through after self-awareness was almost completely like that.

Although the sad part about is actually that maybe on a cosmic, objective level you might be thought of as innocent in the sense that the lack of awareness was a defense a child’s psyche built as a layer in order to ward off the horrendous nature of the world that was given to him by faulty, abusive parenting. And by that I do mean the less traditional parts of the definition as well, such as neglect, emotional incest, engulfment, parentification, seduction into inappropriate rolls (kind of like trapping).

By the time awareness of it as a layer comes in, the hurt and the enormous weight of guilt that narcissist hauls around (acknowledged or not) makes it near impossible to empathize with their own self. If the superego is sadistic, then it has oft been said any recovery is a hopeless cause.

When the truth is unsheathed it’s really a horrible realization. When before it seemed like the world just did not agree with you as the main character, suddenly you become implicated as the villain and source of all your woes. And worst of all, you KNOW you deserve every bit of misfortune that comes your way. It’s become a way of life.

So in my experience, the narcissist is a true pariah. Now this can be argued but often through their own choosing.

How I find some of the better descriptions of a narcissist to be is as someone who has an aversion to Truth. Since their whole cognition is based on a falsehood, their interactions with the world are limited to only the extent of interactions that they accept, i.e how they like to be perceived. As a pw/cNPD I know firsthand how that is congruent with developing strong aspects of AvPD and schizoid traits as well. And when they do actually come to the same leve as everyone else, i.e. when they are not so disconnected from reality through their false selves, they nevertheless are someone who is deeply cynical and disillusioned about life, to the point where they seek either consciously or unconsciously to sow misery and disharmony everywhere they go. A narcissist’s consciousness is actually pruned toward seeking out the potential negatives (initially because the constant state of alarm that their upbringing brought with it to their safety and wellbeing, a constant threat).

By adulthood this threat is the baseline for every interaction
and becomes constant, because their ego protects a fragile or truly non-existent sense of Self that can by swayed by the least of negative responses. What most every relationship is to a narcissist is essentially a prey or be preyed upon. In this sense anyone with cluster C is by definition predatory in nature because of their affinity to smell out weaknesses and social dynamics in a way as to benefit them, or further their agenda. Therein comes the automaton or android part, because all these machinations become a front for the hollowness/underdeveloped inner life. The person him/herself becomes more and more vacuous as the years pass and anther layer of defense is added.
“Should I kill myself, or have a cup of coffee?”
Camus
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Re: What is a narcissist anyway?

Postby Ubinix800 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:17 pm

Well said
BDD and vulnerable narcissism/avpd traits.
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Re: What is a narcissist anyway?

Postby SelfSerf » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:55 pm

Ubinix800 wrote:Well said


Thanks. Painted a dark picture there which is telling of my mindset but...

Also, something that is equally true - "a severely disappointed child in an adult body". All the control over how they are perceived put in place to finally construct a safe enviroment around them. Tragedy is, it´ll never be possible and they just kep alienating everyone around them.

Something funny buy poignant someone once said on Quora - "The Cheshire cat

Image
“Should I kill myself, or have a cup of coffee?”
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Re: What is a narcissist anyway?

Postby easiersaidthandone » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:59 am

Too stuck in labels. This word describes the construct of this and this and this together making this. Or that and that making that.

Don't look at the box. Look at symptoms. That's how you get rid of all the fluff
I don't fake it. I just make it.
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Re: What is a narcissist anyway?

Postby AProphet » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:09 pm

Do you know the story of narcissus?
He was a beautyful hunter, one day he saw his reflection in a pond and fell in love with himself.
All the while ignoring the nymph Echo, who was in love with him.
But Echo could only speak back the last words spoken to her. And narcissus was too self absorbed to ever ask, how is she feeling.
Its not exactly how it works, but the poetic parallel is quite astute.

SelfSerf wrote:How I find some of the better descriptions of a narcissist to be is as someone who has an aversion to Truth. Since their whole cognition is based on a falsehood, their interactions with the world are limited to only the extent of interactions that they accept, i.e how they like to be perceived. As a pw/cNPD I know firsthand how that is congruent with developing strong aspects of AvPD and schizoid traits as well. And when they do actually come to the same leve as everyone else, i.e. when they are not so disconnected from reality through their false selves, they nevertheless are someone who is deeply cynical and disillusioned about life, to the point where they seek either consciously or unconsciously to sow misery and disharmony everywhere they go. A narcissist’s consciousness is actually pruned toward seeking out the potential negatives (initially because the constant state of alarm that their upbringing brought with it to their safety and wellbeing, a constant threat).


Nice source material SelfSerf. Its called narcissistic* personality disorder, not becouse the narcissist is self absorbed or something, no, other people dont exist. Only he exists and has thoughts. Other people are used as objects to be manipulated, to fill the enormous inner emptyness caused by his abusive upbringing. Its not realy he's fault, and he is not conscious of it, he has no self awareness. Its just something that was done to him, before he could remember. the pwNPD was forced to make a choice, to feel safe and secure he was forced to hide behind this false self, false ego, idealized self-image, whatever you want to call it, to cope with the world he entered.
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Re: What is a narcissist anyway?

Postby rules » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:12 pm

I can't really bring myself to read your posts because it's about you, and it's directed to everyone and not specifically to me. I want to talk about myself and have you say "that's exactly it", I seek acknowledgement to calm my feelings of low self-worth. Notice how many times "I" popped up?
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Re: What is a narcissist anyway?

Postby number230000 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:05 pm

SelfSerf wrote:anyone with cluster C is by definition predatory

Don't you mean cluster B ?
Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore
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Re: What is a narcissist anyway?

Postby AProphet » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:46 am

rules wrote:I can't really bring myself to read your posts because it's about you, and it's directed to everyone and not specifically to me. I want to talk about myself and have you say "that's exactly it", I seek acknowledgement to calm my feelings of low self-worth. Notice how many times "I" popped up?


Who's post do you mean? Or do you mean everyone on the forum?
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Re: What is a narcissist anyway?

Postby curious4you » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:27 am

I'm new and curious:

How do you get self-awareness?

Do you have real personality or just ever-changing depends who you are with?

When you have a stable life and people who love you, what's the source of insecurity?
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