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Paranoia?

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Paranoia?

Postby covertunsure » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:10 pm

Does anyone here struggle with acute forms of paranoia? I also notice this paranoia for me is often exacerbated by caffeine and perhaps other stimulants.

I mean paranoia in a highly emotionally charged way, not in a chronic form of "the world's trying to persecute and keep me down", although I have that big-time as well and they're quite likely related in some way. But this is far more emotionally charged and angry.

As an example, I had an issue with a vendor earlier, who simply charged my credit card without my authorization and did not call me first as they promised. Rather than assuming simple disorganization or human error, I interpreted this as a direct attempt to subvert my "authority," request, and agency as a person and as a massive power struggle that I needed to win. Naturally, this led me to act out and possibly over-express my frustrations to someone who isn't in that department. This often seems to lead to a chain reaction in which my own paranoid, worst-case presumptions actually end up manifesting in the other person. Craziness.

I often know at some level that my paranoia may be irrational, but it is hard to control.

I found one study about what might be this phenomena here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2069198 Not sure if it's related.

Does anyone else experience this kind of paranoia? And if so, how do you deal with it?
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Re: Paranoia?

Postby EllaBlack » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:29 pm

lmao.. no it's true, people are passive aggressive
you two are on my foe list
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Re: Paranoia?

Postby Ubinix800 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:09 pm

Funny I get something like this sometimes, but I think it's somehow insecurity based. I remember reading about the self-insecure personality:

"According to Jaspers, such people experience inner humiliation, brought about by outside experiences and their interpretations of them. They have an urge to get external confirmation to their self-deprecation and that makes them see insults in the behavior of other people. They suffer from every slight because they seek the real reason for them in themselves."

Basically that. Go and get some vape juice, guy sells me nicotine-free ones, presume it's because I supposedly look younger than my age then feel insulted. Someone disposes on some food I was going to have in front of me, "oh did you want that?", think they're trying to get under my skin by slighting something I wanted. "Do you want help with that?" obviously must imply (at the time) that I'm incapable or doing something. Self-centered thoughts about being talked about others treating me with hostility. etc.

Mild stuff like that, and so on and so forth. Half the time, at the time, I really, irrefutably believe I'm right about these sort of things, the rest of the time I'm not so sure.

Horrible crap to have this, makes daily life miserable, and that changes depending on your mood and how much time you spend dwelling over these sort of things.

If this problem for you gets any worse I would really encourage you to speak to someone or seek mental health help, especially if you stop questioning these beliefs, some level of mild 'paranoia' as you call it, is probably in the normal range, or may even be a narcissistic defense that re-enforces your self-importance, but if it gets worse that's a horrible mental place to be. Of all the defenses against lack of attention or whatever, this is the worst.
BDD and vulnerable narcissism/avpd traits.
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Re: Paranoia?

Postby thelivinghell92 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:51 pm

Yes, i can definitely identify with this problem. I just read the "Paranoid phenomena and pathological narcissism" link and this sentence particularly resonated with me:

"Tragically, being gripped by the paranoid condition and its manifest delusional system is the only kind of security that the paranoid patient knows."

I would indeed feel lost without my paranoia because I have become so accustomed to it as a form of self-defence and self-preservation. I was bullied and ostracized at school and I became paranoid and defensive in response to the repeated rejections from my peers. I would trust people were my friends and then hear from other people they were being two-faced and didn't really like me etc.

It feels much safer to assume the worst in everybody in case I am let down yet again. This is why I also find myself very uncomfortable when somebody appears to genuinely take a liking to me because, for one, I don't believe I am worthy or deserving of positive treatment, and secondly, I eagerly anticipate the inevitable moment they will turn on me.

It is a vicious cycle, a self-fulfilling prophecy, where I am uptight and defensive, avoid eye contact, avoid any kind of commitment to anybody through fear of the uncertainty of how they will treat me in the future. And of course, this gives people a negative impression - I am "aloof" and "disinterested" etc, etc. And then people's negative response to me just goes to confirm the paranoia which governs all of my negative non-verbal signals towards others!
I have - High functioning autism, OCD (episodic), social anxiety and depersonalization/derealization disorder

Expect I may have - Avoidant/schizoid personality disorder or traits
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Re: Paranoia?

Postby Akuma » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:25 am

I think what Ubinix points out is correct, this is more about internalizing, taking stuff personally, being reminded of that one feels worthless or not understood or not seen and then becoming angry about it - in that process then possibly distorting the cognition even more due to splitting, fragmentation and the like. I asked my neighbours for a favor for example and they didnt reply back. It didnt create any immediate problem cause I could remedy the situation myself without their help but I was angry at them for a while and was convinced they would have forgotten me intentionally, while in fact they had done so accidentally because of stress at work and health problems or family that arose unexpectedly.
I think this connects to a lot of the neglect etc. I've been experiencing as a kid, so there are misunderstandings that are based on certain cognitive schemas one might [unconsciously] have about oneself [and others].

Technically though I dont think this classifies as paranoia, but is the opposite of it. Paranoia is when you feel watched, judged, persecuted by people (or even things) because of unconsciously projecting self-evaluation. Contrary to that, as Ubinix said, the sales people etc examples here seems more about taking stuff in.
dx: dissociative disorder + npd
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Re: Paranoia?

Postby Manners73 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:54 pm

covertunsure wrote:Does anyone here struggle with acute forms of paranoia? I also notice this paranoia for me is often exacerbated by caffeine and perhaps other stimulants.

I mean paranoia in a highly emotionally charged way, not in a chronic form of "the world's trying to persecute and keep me down", although I have that big-time as well and they're quite likely related in some way. But this is far more emotionally charged and angry.

As an example, I had an issue with a vendor earlier, who simply charged my credit card without my authorization and did not call me first as they promised. Rather than assuming simple disorganization or human error, I interpreted this as a direct attempt to subvert my "authority," request, and agency as a person and as a massive power struggle that I needed to win. Naturally, this led me to act out and possibly over-express my frustrations to someone who isn't in that department. This often seems to lead to a chain reaction in which my own paranoid, worst-case presumptions actually end up manifesting in the other person. Craziness.

I often know at some level that my paranoia may be irrational, but it is hard to control.

I found one study about what might be this phenomena here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2069198 Not sure if it's related.

Does anyone else experience this kind of paranoia? And if so, how do you deal with it?


This sounds like me. I wouldn't call it paranoia but it makes my head go west the same as it would with paranoia.

I go loopy when there's a lack of communication at work and I take it completely personal and I immediately think I'm being undermined. This is something I'm working on really hard lately because the emotion I feel comes out as absolute fury to the point where I feel like my heads going to pop.

The thing is, I truly believe that it's everybody else's fault and that I've got every right to react in this way so I've started to try and think in different terms.
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Re: Paranoia?

Postby covertunsure » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:43 pm

Ubinix800 wrote:Funny I get something like this sometimes, but I think it's somehow insecurity based. I remember reading about the self-insecure personality:

"According to Jaspers, such people experience inner humiliation, brought about by outside experiences and their interpretations of them. They have an urge to get external confirmation to their self-deprecation and that makes them see insults in the behavior of other people. They suffer from every slight because they seek the real reason for them in themselves."

Basically that. Go and get some vape juice, guy sells me nicotine-free ones, presume it's because I supposedly look younger than my age then feel insulted. Someone disposes on some food I was going to have in front of me, "oh did you want that?", think they're trying to get under my skin by slighting something I wanted. "Do you want help with that?" obviously must imply (at the time) that I'm incapable or doing something. Self-centered thoughts about being talked about others treating me with hostility. etc.

Mild stuff like that, and so on and so forth. Half the time, at the time, I really, irrefutably believe I'm right about these sort of things, the rest of the time I'm not so sure.

Horrible crap to have this, makes daily life miserable, and that changes depending on your mood and how much time you spend dwelling over these sort of things.

If this problem for you gets any worse I would really encourage you to speak to someone or seek mental health help, especially if you stop questioning these beliefs, some level of mild 'paranoia' as you call it, is probably in the normal range, or may even be a narcissistic defense that re-enforces your self-importance, but if it gets worse that's a horrible mental place to be. Of all the defenses against lack of attention or whatever, this is the worst.


How do you think the self-insecure personality relates to pathological narcissism?

It's funny, I haven't read much about narcissists being paranoid. The study I linked to above is the only one I could find talking about this.

I do think it manifests for me in an almost psychotic-like state where I'm almost convinced the other person is trying to undermine or slight me, to the point where it affects my ability to be rational. Is it like this for you or is it a more measured, strategic approach of retaliation or introspection or self-/other-criticism and devaluation?

When I first started driving at 16, I'd get road rage when someone cut me off and I assumed they were trying to undermine ME, it was all about ME, and I was absolutely compelled to get them back and "win." In reality, I likely CREATED the situation out of the paranoia.

I don't see how it can get much worse. It's been like this since I was an adolescent.

-- Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:45 pm --

Akuma wrote:Technically though I dont think this classifies as paranoia, but is the opposite of it. Paranoia is when you feel watched, judged, persecuted by people (or even things) because of unconsciously projecting self-evaluation. Contrary to that, as Ubinix said, the sales people etc examples here seems more about taking stuff in.


IDK, I think paranoia fits, at least for me.

Definition of paranoia: "a mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance, typically elaborated into an organized system. It may be an aspect of chronic personality disorder, of drug abuse, or of a serious condition such as schizophrenia in which the person loses touch with reality."

I'm very jealous, I'm obviously very self-important, and I feel people are trying to persecute and mistreat me intentionally. Not sure what else you'd call it. And the definition mentions it can be part of a chronic personality disorder.
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Re: Paranoia?

Postby Akuma » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:00 am

covertunsure wrote:
IDK, I think paranoia fits, at least for me.

Definition of paranoia: "a mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance, typically elaborated into an organized system. It may be an aspect of chronic personality disorder, of drug abuse, or of a serious condition such as schizophrenia in which the person loses touch with reality."

I'm very jealous, I'm obviously very self-important, and I feel people are trying to persecute and mistreat me intentionally. Not sure what else you'd call it. And the definition mentions it can be part of a chronic personality disorder.


I'd clarify this with your therapist, because if you want to become more aware of those things and theyre causes its necessary to accurately distinguish them ina moment-to-moment basis.
dx: dissociative disorder + npd
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Re: Paranoia?

Postby covertunsure » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:53 pm

Akuma wrote:
covertunsure wrote:
IDK, I think paranoia fits, at least for me.

Definition of paranoia: "a mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance, typically elaborated into an organized system. It may be an aspect of chronic personality disorder, of drug abuse, or of a serious condition such as schizophrenia in which the person loses touch with reality."

I'm very jealous, I'm obviously very self-important, and I feel people are trying to persecute and mistreat me intentionally. Not sure what else you'd call it. And the definition mentions it can be part of a chronic personality disorder.


I'd clarify this with your therapist, because if you want to become more aware of those things and theyre causes its necessary to accurately distinguish them ina moment-to-moment basis.


What do you mean by "accurately distinguish them in a moment to moment basis?" I can't review every paranoid moment with my therapist; there are too many. :lol:
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Re: Paranoia?

Postby Akuma » Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:21 am

covertunsure wrote:What do you mean by "accurately distinguish them in a moment to moment basis?" I can't review every paranoid moment with my therapist; there are too many.


No, when they appear. From my perspective you have quite the wishy washy approach to your mental health atm and eventhough you are an expert in staring at and obsessing about certain stuff that does not seem to translate to you really looking at it clearly. I assume sooner or later your therapist (or parts of yourself even) is going to point you towards becoming more aware of your defensive maneuvers and possible triggers. That is most effective when it happens on a moment-to-moment basis, or in realtime so to speak. Rare moments of change-inducinginsight are in my experience depending on resonance between your ability to look clearly and to see the connections clearly. So having an accurate understanding of the concepts can be rather helpful to have in the back of your mind.
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