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Envy, Vanity, Insecurity & Superiority

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Re: Envy, Vanity, Insecurity & Superiority

Postby NewSunRising » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:53 pm

Back on topic please or this thread may be locked .
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Re: Envy, Vanity, Insecurity & Superiority

Postby xdude » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:26 pm

NewSunRising wrote:Back on topic please or this thread may be locked .


+1 agree.

The topic has been insightful, keep that part going as wanted.
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Re: Envy, Vanity, Insecurity & Superiority

Postby Reaper » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:29 pm

xdude wrote:
NewSunRising wrote:Back on topic please or this thread may be locked .


+1 agree.


Yes, god forbid we should be ourselves, piss off a moderator who clearly can't handle us and get this forum shutdown too...

And xdude, don't you even think about responding to me, bitch. Not on here or in PM.
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Re: Envy, Vanity, Insecurity & Superiority

Postby xdude » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:45 pm

On topic -

Envy, Vanity, Insecurity & Superiority are all natural human traits (competitiveness too). I don't think any of them are necessarily problematic, in a context. It's when they go out of context that others will go WTH is going on? Defining what is in and out of context can be fuzzy, but there are still rough guidelines that most of society agrees on, even if the exact rules are not spelled out. Depending on the culture, those guidelines vary somewhat.

But to give an example -

A Pro Basketball player feeling threatened by, and competing against a 10 year old child who makes a hoop, we'd all agree (or 99 percent would) is an out of context emotion. I don't think narcissism is about these emotions then as such, just the degree to which they could appear out of context.

Off topic -

The forum rules are clear about personal attacks. Making them clearer won't help if someone is intent on breaking the rule. The topic is fine. I also wear a shirt, even if the restaurant does not put up a sign that says "shirt and shoes" required.
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Re: Envy, Vanity, Insecurity & Superiority

Postby justonemoreperson » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:25 am

xdude wrote:On topic -

Envy, Vanity, Insecurity & Superiority are all natural human traits (competitiveness too). I don't think any of them are necessarily problematic, in a context.


I disagree.

Envy occurs when you measure yourself against someone else. If someone has something that you decide you then want, having not wanted it before. Your desires are being driven by someone else. Yes, everyone's envious to a degree, but it's psychologically unhealthy.

It's like paracetamol. People take it because it stops a headache, but it's toxic. Keep taking them and eventually they'll destroy your stomach lining. People tolerate them in small doses, but the best option is not to have the headache at all.

Vanity, by definition, is excessive. Insecurity: not quite sure how this could be positive. Understanding your weaknesses isn't insecure, it's realistic. Insecure means that you question everything and have no confidence, even when you have the ability.

Superiority is climbing a never ending hill. Feeling superior, to most people, is a defence against insecurity.

I got onto a plane the other day and there was a guy sat in business class with a smug look on his face, trying to catch the eye of the cattle-class passengers as they walked past and down the aisle. None of them knew him; none of them cared. "Superiority" in all its glory.



Off topic -

The forum rules are clear about personal attacks. Making them clearer won't help if someone is intent on breaking the rule. The topic is fine. I also wear a shirt, even if the restaurant does not put up a sign that says "shirt and shoes" required.


Probably best to stop perpetuating it then.
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Re: Envy, Vanity, Insecurity & Superiority

Postby xdude » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:31 am

Fair enough, I think of it differently though. And again, not fact, just an opinion...

Human emotions exist because in some context they made some sense.

There are some really way out there emotions that almost nobody shares, but when a large population converges on a common emotions in similar circumstances, I think it's fair to wonder why those emotions thrived.

I've heard people say anger, jealousy, sadness, etc, have no value, but those emotions took time to evolve. Basically trying to control how they feel and everyone else too by masking what they feel behind intellect doesn't change the emotions exist though. It is possible to bury emotions so deep that they are sort of not felt, but if others see it, then the next step of avoiding what others see does not change what others see at all, it is just is digging in deeper into self-delusions.

To be fair, perhaps in our current technologically advanced societies, some primal emotions are failures. If so they will go away by natural selection.

But beating oneself up for feeling emotions is pointless.

As for off topic -

/shrug - The site wouldn't even exist if there was no order. We'd all be gazing at our navels and complaining life is unfair.
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Re: Envy, Vanity, Insecurity & Superiority

Postby justonemoreperson » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:40 am

You're comparing apples with oranges.

You can't compare negative traits, such as envy, superiority etc with things like anger and jealousy, because they're completely different, and have different mechanisms.

Anger has value, so has jealousy (in its correct definition.)

Envy has no value. Aspiration has value. If I see someone doing something and think, "Wow, that looks cool. I wish I could do that," then it might prompt me to go out and try. But that's not envy. Envy is sitting at home, brooding about that person and secretly hoping they fail.
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Re: Envy, Vanity, Insecurity & Superiority

Postby xdude » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:49 am

justonemoreperson wrote:Anger has value, so has jealousy (in its correct definition.)


That is a starting point of agreement. Those emotions do have value, in context.

Envy might be a matter of inspiration? The emotion exists though, and it is beyond me to explain why, but when any emotion exists and thrives, I think it's okay, was there some context in which it made sense? What comes to mind is it encourages people to thrive for something more then being plants, but that's maybe too easy to be right.

In any case, yes, it's possible some emotions are now obsolete. Like an appendix. It had some function at some point but now, except for guessing, nobody knows that its purpose is.
Last edited by xdude on Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: grammar its vs It's
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Re: Envy, Vanity, Insecurity & Superiority

Postby justonemoreperson » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:54 am

Things like envy are pseudo emotions. They don't exist on their own, rather they're a combination of other emotions that have welded themselves together to create a neurosis.

When a person is envious, it's a combination of aggression, fear, aspiration, hope, despair and isolation.

Each of those things have value, but when you blend them up in the wrong way, out pops envy and the other pseudo emotions, which have no value and only serve to destroy. They're symptoms of a person's inability to correctly process emotions that would otherwise be useful.
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Re: Envy, Vanity, Insecurity & Superiority

Postby xdude » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:03 am

justonemoreperson wrote:Things like envy are pseudo emotions. They don't exist on their own, rather they're a combination of other emotions that have welded themselves together to create a neurosis.

When a person is envious, it's a combination of aggression, fear, aspiration, hope, despair and isolation.


Okay this is very clever, and I will need to ponder that. The first real interesting new idea of the day.
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