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Anyone here an entrepreneur?

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Re: Anyone here an entrepreneur?

Postby justonemoreperson » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:00 pm

Manners73 wrote:
Leaf blowing seems to be quite popular where I live.


Maybe in November.

The gardening one is a good one. Pretty much anything that lazy f*ckers are willing to pay someone else to do:

Wheelie bin cleaning, dog walking, shopping for old people, cleaning for estate agents (real estate), after school kid sitting, etc.
I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right.
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Re: Anyone here an entrepreneur?

Postby covertunsure » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:39 pm

Please forgive me if some of you have mentioned if you have NPD (I know JOMP doesn't), but I get the impression most people who've responded recently in this thread don't have NPD or if they do, they're speaking hypothetically. Because part and parcel to pathological narcissism is an inability to pursue long-term gratification and dysfunction in relationships and work due to the former as well as entitlement and grandiosity.

justonemoreperson wrote:
covertunsure wrote:a) limited by someone else's vision and my salary/job track, b) bored and unfulfilled as a corporate drone, and c) told when I must work. This may be my biggest immediate concern.


There's your first issue: the language you're using. "Limited by someone," "corporate drone," "told."

All of those phrases give the impression that you're not in control of what's happening to you, when in reality you're in control of everything, as it's a series of choices you're making.

Look at this statement:
"I have to set my alarm for 6am, because I have to go to work."

No, you don't. You don't have to set your alarm, neither do you have to go to work. You choose to set your alarm for 6am because you choose to go to work, because you choose the lifestyle that the money from working provides.

Once you get the idea in your head that everything you do is done through personal choice, then you're in control and no one is 'making you' do a damn thing.


I see what you're saying and certainly that line of thinking seems more constructive and empowering. And factually, I suppose it's correct. However, having significant vulnerable narcissistic traits, ADHD, and a host of other things, I really do feel like things happen to me, and I have no control (in psych jargon, "external locus of control"). I don't think ASPD has that whatsoever, so without meaning to trivialize your thoughts, I'm not sure how practical it is to suddenly change my mindset from vulnerable narcissist (things happen to me, I'm a victim of life, nothing good happens to me, I deserve better than that, etc.) to the more adaptive mindset you speak of.

And in reality, things do happen to us. For instance, others have preferences and free agency (although I don't really believe in free will, but that's more a philosophical debate). Thus, they can choose not to hire us, go out with us, stay with us, and to do what we want them to do in general. Clients and employers can fire us. They can choose not to give us a raise or a new project. We can get terrible illnesses.

And also, except in a fictional utopia, we all do have bills to pay. So sometimes (most of the time, I'd say) people have to wake up at 6am to do jobs they really don't want to do so they can put a roof over their head and bread on the table to feed their families--and in Western or more developed cultures, as a bonus, to have that BMW or nicer house than is strictly needed.

So it's not as simple as saying "we choose everything" and "no one is making us do anything."
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Re: Anyone here an entrepreneur?

Postby ZeroZ » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:48 am

It’s up to you how you handle disordered traits. You can identify with them or try to kick their ass. It’s not a life sentence, I don’t care what anyone says, jomps a diagnosed psychopath. You think that’s any easier to deal with? You don’t think narcissism is at the core of that disorder?

Look at Vini, they (not sure to call him or her) have a systematic approach even taking feedback where the blinders are on. That is not easy to do, but it’s what needs to be done in order to get better
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Re: Anyone here an entrepreneur?

Postby covertunsure » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:56 am

ZeroZ wrote:It’s up to you how you handle disordered traits. You can identify with them or try to kick their ass. It’s not a life sentence, I don’t care what anyone says, jomps a diagnosed psychopath. You think that’s any easier to deal with? You don’t think narcissism is at the core of that disorder?

Look at Vini, they (not sure to call him or her) have a systematic approach even taking feedback where the blinders are on. That is not easy to do, but it’s what needs to be done in order to get better


I'm not sure, JOMP in my other thread ("Shame") said he doesn't relate to all the narcissistic defenses/aspects, particularly shame. For me, shame is a huge part of my everyday life.

When $#%^ like what happened earlier today happens, it makes me hopeless that I can change and I am instead just desperate for some narcissistic supply to fill this emptiness up again, usually in the form of attention and admiration from others to once again prove that I'm perfect. A major crisis of identity and self-esteem triggered by someone at the grocery store not seeming interested/attracted to me. This is my daily life, and it is a self-reinforcing vicious circle. I don't know how and feel incapable of change.

Day by day, I feel increasingly more like life is overwhelming and too hard and simply not worth bothering with.
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Re: Anyone here an entrepreneur?

Postby Greebo » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:53 am

ZeroZ wrote:It’s up to you how you handle disordered traits. You can identify with them or try to kick their ass. It’s not a life sentence, I don’t care what anyone says

Basically this, though I suspect that the NPD label is going to be used as an excuse not to do anything or try anything new for the foreseeable future.

A pity really, as anyone who remains in the same behavioural ruts is destined to repeat the same pattern over and over.
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Re: Anyone here an entrepreneur?

Postby justonemoreperson » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:15 am

covertunsure wrote:
I'm not sure how practical it is to suddenly change my mindset from vulnerable narcissist (things happen to me, I'm a victim of life, nothing good happens to me, I deserve better than that, etc.) to the more adaptive mindset you speak of.


No one is suggesting you can instantly make a change and be a different person. And, as I've said over and over, it's not a fix, it's a compensation. I've failed more times than I've succeeded, but to allow other people to be in control of what I do is something I find weak and pathetic, so I prefer to think that everything is a choice I make. Rather than work against my narcissism, that attitude is born from it.


And in reality, things do happen to us. For instance, others have preferences and free agency (although I don't really believe in free will, but that's more a philosophical debate). Thus, they can choose not to hire us, go out with us, stay with us, and to do what we want them to do in general. Clients and employers can fire us. They can choose not to give us a raise or a new project. We can get terrible illnesses.


So, because certain things happen outside of your control, you relinquish control over everything? Guess what, you're still making that choice. You might not be able to control everything that happens, but you can control how you respond to it.

Viktor Frankl once said, "Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way."

It's the only freedom we really have - to choose how we respond.

And also, except in a fictional utopia, we all do have bills to pay. So sometimes (most of the time, I'd say) people have to wake up at 6am to do jobs they really don't want to do so they can put a roof over their head and bread on the table to feed their families--and in Western or more developed cultures, as a bonus, to have that BMW or nicer house than is strictly needed.

So it's not as simple as saying "we choose everything" and "no one is making us do anything."



Unless you're living on a street corner begging for food, you've already made, and continue to make, choices over your life. You choose to pay bills to make your life easier.

Basically, you're already doing it but you're not aware that you're doing it positively. You just need to build on what's already there.

As Zero said:, you're in the wrong place and talking to the wrong people to play the "I've got it worse than you" card.
I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right.
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Re: Anyone here an entrepreneur?

Postby justonemoreperson » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:26 am

Greebo wrote:A pity really, as anyone who remains in the same behavioural ruts is destined to repeat the same pattern over and over.


Agreed, although unless there's some social aspect or supply from this forum, there is a will to change, but without direction.
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Re: Anyone here an entrepreneur?

Postby Greebo » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:32 am

I dunno.
If he’s just going to give up when things become emotionally uncomfortable therapy isn’t going to work either. There have been plenty of people here who were more together and successful and were actually diagnosed with NPD, not just suspected of having traits. I’m not convinced all of this can be put down to the disorder.

My personal opinion is that a lot of this would probably be improved by lifestyle changes, all of which are relatively easily done. If he got his $#%^ together, developed a reasonable routine, got a job, found other things in his life to take an interest in and generally spent less time trying to stick his head up his own bum he would at the very least be in a better position to be able to endure the less comfortable consequences of tackling the narcissism. At best I suspect many of the issues would evaporate, purely on the basis of the fact that I’ve seen people get into this kind of cycle before and say much the same things as covertunsure, only to get over many of them by changing the way they lived.

Making sure I had other fun things in my life and trying not to become too one dimensional was the thing that worked best for me, it gives you back perspective. I would have thought it would be a nice thing to think about and a reasonable place to start. But at the end of the day it’s a case of whatever works.
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Re: Anyone here an entrepreneur?

Postby justonemoreperson » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:02 am

Greebo wrote:
My personal opinion is that a lot of this would probably be improved by lifestyle changes, all of which are relatively easily done. If he got his $#%^ together, developed a reasonable routine, got a job, found other things in his life to take an interest in and generally spent less time trying to stick his head up his own bum he would at the very least be in a better position to be able to endure the less comfortable consequences of tackling the narcissism.



This is probably the key to it all.

I tend to be more productive when I'm busy doing other stuff. When I'm home doing nothing, I just want to get stoned and watch Scooby Doo; everything I need to do is too much effort.
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Re: Anyone here an entrepreneur?

Postby xdude » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:20 pm

Pseudo short version of what I am thinking -

Some people obsess (and hopefully enjoy) what they are doing, and sometimes that translates into what others label being an 'entrepreneur', but not always. More on that below.

Some people obsess over being an 'entrepreneur', though don't necessarily enjoy what they are doing to achieve that goal.

One sign is that the former exhibits great enthusiasm for the means, while the later tends to show enthusiasm for 'the ends'. What the later may not get is the former types aren't seeking group approval, they are seeking personal fulfillment and sometimes sharing their passion with others.

If I was gambling, I'd wager that the former tend to be far more likely to 'succeed' than the later in the public's eye, and they absolutely do 'succeed' in their own eye because they are enjoying the process over the socially desirable outcome (e.g., wealth, power, fame, etc.).
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