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case study: "cured" narcissist

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case study: "cured" narcissist

Postby AProphet » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:40 pm

Unfortunately I cant change the name of the last topic, so Im doing it this way. Thats what I realy ment.

Oh he thought he cured himself. And now he deals tarrot cards trying to guess the future. Thinking about that same girl he barely knew all the time. Its strange but I think I still love her...
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Re: case study: "cured" narcissist

Postby SelfSerf » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:30 pm

I admire your perseverance in making these every once in a while. Actually I guess when I say that I am being facetious and actually have some superiority complex, thinking it’s kind of useless (as Ive rrwlized a lot of the threads and inquiries Ive made on here have just been part of delving further into a narcissistic/schizoid bubble.

With all due respect and not to outright offend, I would tend to put the emphasis in your last sentence on think.

Wen the girl who I was really bedazzled by (she had BPD and it was a perfect passionate storm) finally called it quits with me, I went into severe delusions and convinced myself I could teach myself empathy and become a good person again all the while concurrently isolating myself from everyone and denying-minimizong my wrongdoing towards her.

If I may ask, Ive been wondering — how is your wellbeing so many months after your revelationa with psychedelics? am assuming a lot of it has faded into the background and is not so pertinent anymore
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Re: case study: "cured" narcissist

Postby AProphet » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:33 pm

SelfSerf wrote:If I may ask, Ive been wondering — how is your wellbeing so many months after your revelationa with psychedelics? am assuming a lot of it has faded into the background and is not so pertinent anymore


Yes I have doubts whether I truly understand her or if its a psychotic bubble. But I still think only about her and how to get in touch with her. My mate will be sending her a message. The psychedelics were usefull in facilitating change. Mostly dealing with the feelings I still have for her. My feelings have been changing depending on the understanding of the situation, and psychedelics make it easier to find and integrate the new feelings and the Jungian views on personality. Example: Ive just been integrating the perspective that we might have been mirror souls http://www.thelawofattraction.com/twin-flames/. And that means that only she is important ever. I would have never thought Id be looking to sites like that for answers but they are the best explanation I have for what happened. And Im wondering why Im still a "we" and why I still dont understand that other people exist.

I mean what Is there to admire. I have nothing left to do except thinking about how could I be so ###$ up and why I never had anything becouse of it. Why I couldnt even spend time with her. At least Im not feeling lonely. Not becouse im not, I am lonely, but im not feeling it, all I realy need is myself. Also the new Joker film perfectly describes my situation, so I do feel understood in ways. I dream of lashing out, destroying, like he did, and of being hailed for it.
Last edited by AProphet on Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: case study: "cured" narcissist

Postby ZeroZ » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:35 pm

Have you tried to move on Aprophit? I’m not convinced how healthy this all really is. I get it, you are trying to be introspective but wouldn’t it be better to find someone else and not repeat the same mistakes? Make all of this worth something to you in a more practical sense?
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Re: case study: "cured" narcissist

Postby AProphet » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:47 pm

ZeroZ wrote:Have you tried to move on Aprophit? I’m not convinced how healthy this all really is. I get it, you are trying to be introspective but wouldn’t it be better to find someone else and not repeat the same mistakes? Make all of this worth something to you in a more practical sense?


Yes I did try, all I did in my last 5 workplaces was looking for a girlfriend. And I got fired from each and every one becouse Im still mentaly ill self abusive. No matter that nothing will ever be as good, I just dont want to be alone anymore, like you said hopefully I learned enough to not hate the next girl.
But recently after the 2nd hyperspace event me and the OCD friend that's been seeing me through this agreed that if Im still self abusive, doesnt make sence to have other people in my life. So I realy have nothing except what I learned from my "relationship" with her, so I dont know the only solution I have for the moment is dreaming up the relationship, holding my pillow thinking of her and imagining her forgivness. I had that idea before Arthur imagined his relationship in the Joker by the way.

I am still repeating the same mistakes, unable to change anything. At least I had an in-detail illustration how the disociative processes work while chatting with her best girlfriend, over the course of 9-10 months. How I just imagined the person im talking to, as stupid as old me, so she didnt need to write back. She was too stupid, she just listened to the wisdom of the buddha. How your not able to understand, even thought you wrote it precisely. That she hates you becouse you broke her best girlfriends heart (thats not the reason). And what was realy happeneing was I had to trust her completely and go desperate for her becouse she hated me, like for all the girls before. Always a disaster. What I thought was love, thats why I didnt know I wasnt in love before.
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Re: case study: "cured" narcissist

Postby AProphet » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:26 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7wYAVMEP1Y (the joker ending spoiler warning)
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Re: case study: "cured" narcissist

Postby Akuma » Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:14 am

SelfSerf wrote:Ive rrwlized a lot of the threads and inquiries Ive made on here have just been part of delving further into a narcissistic/schizoid bubble.
(...)
Wen the girl who I was really bedazzled by (she had BPD and it was a perfect passionate storm) finally called it quits with me, I went into severe delusions and convinced myself I could teach myself empathy and become a good person again all the while concurrently isolating myself from everyone and denying-minimizong my wrongdoing towards her.


My health is rather horrible these days so I'm not sure if it makes sense if I try to write something about this, but I find it rather essential and it also touches some parts of my own current and longstanding issues.
What you are describing is essentially an issue of failed individuation. An overly dependent state on another person - especially if its mixed with a good/bad perspective - can point to an essentially symbiotic relationship, where it is not clear that the other person is not part of you and vice versa. So if such a person suddenly breaks a relationship off or something, not only does it feel like part of yourself has been broken off, but also part of your mind gets hurt by this, because something happened which you can't comprehend. Then you can start trying to repair this, by being the "good person", thinking that the other person will love you or be part of you again when you are good, which is regressive. Or you can withdraw narcissistically / split off parts of yourself that are needy, because you only understand neediness in the sense of symbiotic dependency, so instead of climbing up the ladder, looking at it like an adult, cutting your losses, figuring out what went wrong and acting differently in the future etc... you climb down even more, becoming ultimately more childish, looking for quickfixes, "spiritual" solutions, denying needs etc
The only real solution to this though, is to learn to restructure your mind in such a way, that you realize that you are indeed a seperate entity living in a world full of seperate entities - which is going to be both hard and frightening, after all being stuck in the symbiotic stage is also a solution against the fears and desorientation that being an individual will bring about.
But then schizoid regression is not necessary anymore in this context and you will also not think anymore that people would like you because you are "good", because - frankly - you have stopped thinking like a toddler - or because you have become aware of certain schemas in your family like parentification etc. That cant be achieved by being in relation to yourself, though; originally it would have been the parents job to help the kid to learn to become a individual so there needs to be a longterm influx from the outside, paired with an understanding of the inner situation and a wish / the work to change it.
dx: dissociative disorder + npd
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Re: case study: "cured" narcissist

Postby AProphet » Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:12 pm

Akuma wrote:
SelfSerf wrote:Ive rrwlized a lot of the threads and inquiries Ive made on here have just been part of delving further into a narcissistic/schizoid bubble.
(...)
Wen the girl who I was really bedazzled by (she had BPD and it was a perfect passionate storm) finally called it quits with me, I went into severe delusions and convinced myself I could teach myself empathy and become a good person again all the while concurrently isolating myself from everyone and denying-minimizong my wrongdoing towards her.


My health is rather horrible these days so I'm not sure if it makes sense if I try to write something about this, but I find it rather essential and it also touches some parts of my own current and longstanding issues.
What you are describing is essentially an issue of failed individuation. An overly dependent state on another person - especially if its mixed with a good/bad perspective - can point to an essentially symbiotic relationship, where it is not clear that the other person is not part of you and vice versa. So if such a person suddenly breaks a relationship off or something, not only does it feel like part of yourself has been broken off, but also part of your mind gets hurt by this, because something happened which you can't comprehend. Then you can start trying to repair this, by being the "good person", thinking that the other person will love you or be part of you again when you are good, which is regressive. Or you can withdraw narcissistically / split off parts of yourself that are needy, because you only understand neediness in the sense of symbiotic dependency, so instead of climbing up the ladder, looking at it like an adult, cutting your losses, figuring out what went wrong and acting differently in the future etc... you climb down even more, becoming ultimately more childish, looking for quickfixes, "spiritual" solutions, denying needs etc
The only real solution to this though, is to learn to restructure your mind in such a way, that you realize that you are indeed a seperate entity living in a world full of seperate entities - which is going to be both hard and frightening, after all being stuck in the symbiotic stage is also a solution against the fears and desorientation that being an individual will bring about.
But then schizoid regression is not necessary anymore in this context and you will also not think anymore that people would like you because you are "good", because - frankly - you have stopped thinking like a toddler - or because you have become aware of certain schemas in your family like parentification etc. That cant be achieved by being in relation to yourself, though; originally it would have been the parents job to help the kid to learn to become a individual so there needs to be a longterm influx from the outside, paired with an understanding of the inner situation and a wish / the work to change it.


Respond to me or get the ###$ out of my thread.
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Re: case study: "cured" narcissist

Postby SelfSerf » Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:41 pm

AProphet wrote:What you are describing is essentially an issue of failed individuation. An overly dependent state on another person - especially if its mixed with a good/bad perspective - can point to an essentially symbiotic relationship, where it is not clear that the other person is not part of you and vice versa.

you climb down even more, becoming ultimately more childish, looking for quickfixes, "spiritual" solutions, denying needs etc


AProphet wrote:Respond to me or get the ###$ out of my thread.


Case in point. :roll:

Yes, 100%. Individuation is exactly what I´ve been pondering about lately. It´s boiled down to the idea that I absolutely abhor my dad on some days but on most days this hate towards him and his mannerisms is the only emotion I experience so am really defined by this. Am defined by my enemy so to speak. And so is it with my Grandmother where on some days it seems like she has this trouble with individuation herself being HPD and having parentified me after her daughter (my mother) died.

The thing is, all that you (Akuma) have written in response to my rambling threads was difficult for me to fathom when you first posted the because I was expecting something different - validation mostly I reckon so I swept it aside. Some of meanings of those posts have started to make more sense to me. I had some weird epiphany yesterday where I admitted some fearful thoughts and feelings of regret about my life so far. It didn´t necessary lead anywhere but a part of me kind of snapped out of the bubble of a victim mentality and understood that if I don´t change my circumstances, nothing will either.

A complete snap out of it unfortunately does not seem possible for now because this weird mixture of defenses I have keep shifting the blame - ASPD traits externalize it to my lack of good parental figures during my upbringing, my current situation, the way the world is set up and the schizoidish part is more like (I´ll just wait here until someone takes notice of me, which realistically could be forever because everyone has their own lives). Am not out of the woods by any means but I guess this weird split of ruthlessness VS absolute idling (you need to be productive to make something of yourself - you´re okay doing ###$ all - none of it matters) is something I´m at least getting the hang of. But yeah the truth is it´s very difficult for me to care about much these days so making "real goals" for myself is kind of on the wayside.

And I do believe some of what you wrote might apply to AProphet as well...

I would also add that the problem with doing psychedelics for someone with a personality disorder is obviously the disillusionment one goes through, like "WHAT? This didn´t bring any insight either?" Coupled that with entitlement "THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO WORK" and you have yourself a foul mixture.
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Re: case study: "cured" narcissist

Postby AProphet » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:17 pm

SelfSerf wrote:
Akuma wrote:What you are describing is essentially an issue of failed individuation. An overly dependent state on another person - especially if its mixed with a good/bad perspective - can point to an essentially symbiotic relationship, where it is not clear that the other person is not part of you and vice versa.

you climb down even more, becoming ultimately more childish, looking for quickfixes, "spiritual" solutions, denying needs etc


And I do believe some of what you wrote might apply to AProphet as well...

I would also add that the problem with doing psychedelics for someone with a personality disorder is obviously the disillusionment one goes through, like "WHAT? This didn´t bring any insight either?" Coupled that with entitlement "THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO WORK" and you have yourself a foul mixture.


You mean the bold part? Learning complex theories from the internet and looking for answers isnt childish, childish would be running away and retreating to a imaginary world where she forgives me and we live happily everafter, which I do too, just becouse I have no better solution at the moment and it realy hurts. The spiritual solutions arent quick fixes mind you, Im still using them to further understand the new perspectives, just becouse they work best. Dosing 2c-b and looking inward, locating the feelings I have and working threw them (they call this "the feeling process" for the "emotional body", Idk it realy is that simple). Im doing quite the oposite of denying my needs, Im actualy aknowledging them for the first time.

Whats interesting, in analytical psychology proposed by Jung individuation means something different. He understands that as the lifelong process of furthering your awareness, f.e. integrating unconsciouss aspects into consciouss awareness. About the symbolic relationship you mention: thats actualy the fundamental problem of NPD, that the internal representations are disconnected from the real world. The ideas in the mind are always some kind of symbol or representation, but for NPD especialy this relationship strays into pathological territory (other people dont exist etc.).

PS oh he wrote symbiotic not symbolic, which doesnt follow. A symbiotic relationship which is not mutually beneficial "ok"

-- Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:26 pm --

SelfSerf wrote:
AProphet wrote:Respond to me or get the ###$ out of my thread.


Case in point. :roll:


Case in point of what? That I dont like a narcissist? Wow that must be uncommon. I wish he wanst as stupid as he is, ignoring me, becouse then he could lash out at me, and I could lash out at him, and at least something would be happening on the forum.
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