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Identity disturbance in NPD?

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Re: Identity disturbance in NPD?

Postby AProphet » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:10 pm

What is important, is that you discover your true self, but then get comfortable being in control of who and how you are, and not being passive. You don’t have to just accept that who you are is set in stone. You can reinvent yourself, choose who you are and connect with your true self deeply and profoundly.

So how do you discover your true self and live in accordance with it?
a) As I mentioned previously, identify and set goals because you value and enjoy them, because they satisfy you. Goals that reflect your true self. You can have other goals, just make sure you have plenty of goals that reflect your true passions.
b) Numerous experts state that finding your true self requires some self-reflection and an ability to be honest and objective with yourself. What values do you have? What characteristics define you?
https://www.adam-eason.com/need-discover-true-self/




What happens when we remain undifferentiated from our parents? What happens when we don’t have a strong identity?

The answer is that we cannot function in a healthy way in our relationships. We may face issues such as:

Codependency
Social anxiety
Toxic/abusive relationships
Depression
Emptiness
Neediness
Attracting needy/unhealthy friendships
Empathic overload
Low self-worth
https://lonerwolf.com/toxic-enmeshment/

Was just reading that and remembered we spoke about identity, so I thought it could be relevant.
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Re: Identity disturbance in NPD?

Postby ZeroZ » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:08 pm

What sticks out about that and this has come up in therapy more than once, what if you don’t know what you like anymore, maybe you don’t really like anything that much. Everything is just a string of movements connected together. Go for a hike, I claim that I like nature, when I do it has no profound affect on me at all, I’m walking on dirt and there are trees. It’s not so easy when literally nothing is of any significant interest to you. That’s when the circular patterns start to emerge, even things I ‘like’ usually are not strong enough to motivate me to actually do them. It’s like being dead already in a sense, maybe the key is just to accept that? I am the walking dead
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Re: Identity disturbance in NPD?

Postby AProphet » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:16 pm

ZeroZ wrote:What sticks out about that and this has come up in therapy more than once, what if you don’t know what you like anymore, maybe you don’t really like anything that much. Everything is just a string of movements connected together. Go for a hike, I claim that I like nature, when I do it has no profound affect on me at all, I’m walking on dirt and there are trees. It’s not so easy when literally nothing is of any significant interest to you. That’s when the circular patterns start to emerge, even things I ‘like’ usually are not strong enough to motivate me to actually do them. It’s like being dead already in a sense, maybe the key is just to accept that? I am the walking dead


I agree. If you think nothing is significant, when I saw clearly how significant it all realy was, means your realy realy lost.
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Re: Identity disturbance in NPD?

Postby covertunsure » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:20 pm

AProphet wrote:
covertunsure wrote:
ZeroZ wrote:Reinventing myself usually feels good, I think I’m really accomplishing something. So not ego dystonic in that sense, but the looming danger of having potential threats all around you that you have to guard against is not enjoyable in any way and I usually avoid going outside when possible because of this. I’ve become very Schizoid like


Wow, I could have written the bolded part. I also feel much more comfortable in the confines of my apartment, particularly as for me these threats are everywhere because I live in a huge city. Could you please elaborate on how this manifests to you and what the potential threats are to you? That would be immensely helpful. To me, they are people not admiring my looks, not finding me attractive, me "realizing" (for the 832935th time, hence why it's quoted) that I'm not perfect and experiencing the torture-filled pain of that.


Its called a prosecutory delusion. They offten accompany NPD and drug use.

Regarding the personality structure types. BPD would have borderline organization, but NPD would have psychotic, is that correct?


We communicated via PM and you said you don't think I have NPD because of various things--empathy, etc. "Tell me your plans. Yeah I think NPD is not it. You are emotional and I could sence the anger alllready surfacing when I said you are not. A NPD person is not emotional, more like dead inside."

But I do identify with the persecutory delusions. I feel the world is always against me and when something doesn't go my way, even though I'm not religious at all, I feel it's "God"/the universe working against me and throw a temper tantrum. But I know with BPD there's also paranoia... so it's hard to differentiate.

However, there's not much in the literature about identity disturbance in NPD/narcissism. It doesn't seem like a disturbance for most narcissists because it doesn't seem to cause much pain. I relate more to the emptiness associated with BPD than the boredom associated more with NPD (at least from the literature I've read/videos I've watched). For me, the identity issues cause pain.

ZeroZ wrote:What sticks out about that and this has come up in therapy more than once, what if you don’t know what you like anymore, maybe you don’t really like anything that much. Everything is just a string of movements connected together. Go for a hike, I claim that I like nature, when I do it has no profound affect on me at all, I’m walking on dirt and there are trees. It’s not so easy when literally nothing is of any significant interest to you. That’s when the circular patterns start to emerge, even things I ‘like’ usually are not strong enough to motivate me to actually do them. It’s like being dead already in a sense, maybe the key is just to accept that? I am the walking dead


Could you please respond to my earlier question about how threats in the world manifest for you and keep you more motivated to stay home? It would be immensely helpful and I would greatly appreciate it as this is my greatest challenge.

Even with this, I felt a sense of persecutory delusion, I guess you could call it, that you didn't respond not because YOU didn't want to, but because "nothing ever goes my way" in this universe/according to "God." I say this to illustrate the "persecutory delusion" per AProphet, not to make you feel bad.
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Re: Identity disturbance in NPD?

Postby AProphet » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:37 pm

Im sorry you took offense covertunsure. I didnt mean it in such a way. What you feel is valid and I felt the same way ("why does it always keep happening to me"). Well, the buddha would say to that: yes. God is taking vengance on you.


covertunsure wrote:We communicated via PM and you said you don't think I have NPD because of various things--empathy, etc. "Tell me your plans. Yeah I think NPD is not it. You are emotional and I could sence the anger alllready surfacing when I said you are not. A NPD person is not emotional, more like dead inside."


Yes I stand by that. Its realy how I think from my perspective now knowing what I felt before and what I feel now. With NPD you are emotionally shallow, everything is a joke, cant take anything serious, and doesnt understand anything. And the feelings you are experiencing is actualy a feeling of self-abuse/self-defacement/self harm/self-invalidation, not something most would call a feeling. And maybe some sadness, surprise and anger, fear, only the most basest emotion. The more refined feelings such as remorse, disgust, love, totally unaccessible. You said you had empathy, I only explained what it is. We can only work out so much on a forum, so diagnosisng eachother, yes Ive done it succesfully before, but no its not ment to be taken seriously, unsupported.
Last edited by AProphet on Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Identity disturbance in NPD?

Postby covertunsure » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:41 pm

AProphet wrote:Im sorry you took offense covertunsure. I didnt mean it in such a way. What you feel is valid and I felt the same way ("why does it always keep happening to me"). Well, the buddha would say to that: yes. God is taking vengance on you.


covertunsure wrote:We communicated via PM and you said you don't think I have NPD because of various things--empathy, etc. "Tell me your plans. Yeah I think NPD is not it. You are emotional and I could sence the anger alllready surfacing when I said you are not. A NPD person is not emotional, more like dead inside."


Yes I stand by that. Its realy how I think from my perspective now knowing what I felt before and what I feel now. With NPD you are emotionally shallow, everything is a joke, cant take anything serious, and doesnt understand anything. And the feelings you are experiencing is actualy a feeling of self-abuse/self-defacement/self harm/self-invalidation, not something most would call a feeling. You said you had empathy, I only explained what it is. We can only work out so much on a forum, so diagnosisng eachother, yes Ive done it succesfully before, but no its not ment to be taken seriously, unsupported.


It's cool. :) But if you don't think I have NPD, why did you tie my persecutory delusions to NPD? Just wondering. And I do definitely have feelings and very strong emotions.

BTW, I also agree I probably don't have DSM NPD, but I do have pathological narcissism due to my self-esteem being entirely linked to how others perceive me.
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Re: Identity disturbance in NPD?

Postby AProphet » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:46 pm

covertunsure wrote:
It's cool. :) But if you don't think I have NPD, why did you tie my persecutory delusions to NPD? Just wondering. And I do definitely have feelings and very strong emotions.

BTW, I also agree I probably don't have DSM NPD, but I do have pathological narcissism due to my self-esteem being entirely linked to how others perceive me.


Oh it was just ad hoc, in passing. Anyway the DSM-5 category for covert doesnt exist but if you have NPD it should classify you as NPD, regardless of subtype.
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Re: Identity disturbance in NPD?

Postby covertunsure » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:52 pm

AProphet wrote:
covertunsure wrote:
It's cool. :) But if you don't think I have NPD, why did you tie my persecutory delusions to NPD? Just wondering. And I do definitely have feelings and very strong emotions.

BTW, I also agree I probably don't have DSM NPD, but I do have pathological narcissism due to my self-esteem being entirely linked to how others perceive me.


Oh it was just ad hoc, in passing. Anyway the DSM-5 category for covert doesnt exist but if you have NPD it should classify you as NPD, regardless of subtype.


Ah, ok, thanks for clarifying. And yeah, my psychologist doesn't think I have full NPD. But based on what Akuma's said and some reading about pathological narcissism, I definitely have traits of that. Contingent self-esteem, a sense of self-importance, narcissistic rage when I feel insulted or crossed (as a result of feeling superior to others), etc.
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Re: Identity disturbance in NPD?

Postby ZeroZ » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:07 pm

covertunsure wrote:
ZeroZ wrote:Reinventing myself usually feels good, I think I’m really accomplishing something. So not ego dystonic in that sense, but the looming danger of having potential threats all around you that you have to guard against is not enjoyable in any way and I usually avoid going outside when possible because of this. I’ve become very Schizoid like


Wow, I could have written the bolded part. I also feel much more comfortable in the confines of my apartment, particularly as for me these threats are everywhere because I live in a huge city. Could you please elaborate on how this manifests to you and what the potential threats are to you? That would be immensely helpful. To me, they are people not admiring my looks, not finding me attractive, me "realizing" (for the 832935th time, hence why it's quoted) that I'm not perfect and experiencing the torture-filled pain of that.


I don’t know what to add to this, I just feel like most people have bad intentions and I have to look out for myself. Dog eat dog world type of thing. I’m not sure about the admiring my looks. I don’t think that’s a particular issue. When I was lifting I felt like people were so intimidated by me, because my presence was overwhelming, I would have play down to them for things to go smoothly. Sounds crazy but that’s how I felt
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Re: Identity disturbance in NPD?

Postby ZeroZ » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:46 pm

Keep in mind I’ve been diagnosed anti social as well, although I don’t think it fits and reject the label outright there may be some features that blur things that are maybe not typical for a typical narc. Nor do I think I’m a narc for that matter, so our experiences are likely to all be different
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