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Transference focused psychotherapy

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Re: Transference focused psychotherapy

Postby Akuma » Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:13 am

covertunsure wrote: :lol:

Yeah, we’re capitalists. And we’re not ashamed of it!

For better or worse, all professions must market. Even those that want to appear above it, like therapists. Everyone needs to put bread on the table, and some want more than that for their families or themselves.

I’m conflicted about that because on some level, it does seem to make the profession less “pure” in motive and for a cynic like me can make it seem disingenuous, but it’s also a necessary fact of life and of humans to want to make money and feel secure and comfortable.


Well this question about how honest / pure etc. their offer is seems to be one that lots of people have, especially when you are uncertain how to relate to people. I'm not sure it becomes worse with the amount its probably any amount already that kind of "spoils" it.
But I do find it extreme what amounts they take in your country. I mean with the pricing you are talking about thats a monthly income of up to 40k - most people in Germany dont make that in a year. I'd be having trouble finding anyone in Germany even in upper management who makes that kind of cash.
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Re: Transference focused psychotherapy

Postby covertunsure » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:07 pm

Akuma wrote:
covertunsure wrote: :lol:

Yeah, we’re capitalists. And we’re not ashamed of it!

For better or worse, all professions must market. Even those that want to appear above it, like therapists. Everyone needs to put bread on the table, and some want more than that for their families or themselves.

I’m conflicted about that because on some level, it does seem to make the profession less “pure” in motive and for a cynic like me can make it seem disingenuous, but it’s also a necessary fact of life and of humans to want to make money and feel secure and comfortable.


Well this question about how honest / pure etc. their offer is seems to be one that lots of people have, especially when you are uncertain how to relate to people. I'm not sure it becomes worse with the amount its probably any amount already that kind of "spoils" it.
But I do find it extreme what amounts they take in your country. I mean with the pricing you are talking about thats a monthly income of up to 40k - most people in Germany dont make that in a year. I'd be having trouble finding anyone in Germany even in upper management who makes that kind of cash.


Yeah, I know people who make that much here, but it puts them at the top 1% of the country (although not necessarily their state/area, of course, depending on average income/wealth for that area). They are the only ones that can afford $3,200 per month in private pay health care. And even they would have trouble if they have a nice apartment or home in a large city, several children in private schools, etc.
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Re: Transference focused psychotherapy

Postby synchronicity » Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:02 am

Covert I don’t know if this is something you would be interested in, are familiar with, or would even be beneficial to you but it was something my psychiatrist thought I would benefit from and wanted me to consider doing. I lightly researched it before coming to the conclusion that I am not interested at this time in participating in anymore therapy.

My psychiatrist thought I would benefit from it because it has been proven to be successful in helping those with past trauma. It’s called EMDR therapy.

Here is a link if you want to get an overview of what it is.

https://www.emdr.com/what-is-emdr/

I am not familiar with transference focused psychotherapy. I have only ever done what was required as a child in my then situation, as an adult it has been CBT and DBT.
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Re: Transference focused psychotherapy

Postby covertunsure » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:55 pm

synchronicity wrote:Covert I don’t know if this is something you would be interested in, are familiar with, or would even be beneficial to you but it was something my psychiatrist thought I would benefit from and wanted me to consider doing. I lightly researched it before coming to the conclusion that I am not interested at this time in participating in anymore therapy.

My psychiatrist thought I would benefit from it because it has been proven to be successful in helping those with past trauma. It’s called EMDR therapy.

Here is a link if you want to get an overview of what it is.

https://www.emdr.com/what-is-emdr/

I am not familiar with transference focused psychotherapy. I have only ever done what was required as a child in my then situation, as an adult it has been CBT and DBT.


Thank you. I don't really have any memorable past trauma, so I'm not sure it would make sense for me.

The more I learn about vulnerable narcissism, the more convinced I am I'm pathologically narcissistic and pretty sure I don't have BPD—maybe traits, but the self-harming isn't there except in self-sabotage and eating things that I know aren't good for my skin and make me break out. But I would say that is more just devaluing and discarding myself because I'm not perfect and consider myself a lost cause. There's no in between—either all good ("perfect") or all bad. That's narcissism. Not in the same emotionally charged, borderline way, where they hate you one moment and love you the next, but in the narcissistic perfectionist way.
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Re: Transference focused psychotherapy

Postby Akuma » Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:59 am

I hope you have a good first session today.
I dont think I said this yet so I gotta add this here: I find it really cool and respectable that you are trying this, especially in light of the pricing. I hope you will benefit from it.
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Re: Transference focused psychotherapy

Postby covertunsure » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:04 pm

Akuma wrote:I hope you have a good first session today.
I dont think I said this yet so I gotta add this here: I find it really cool and respectable that you are trying this, especially in light of the pricing. I hope you will benefit from it.


Thank you Akuma!

The first session psychologist needs to see me again for further consultation, of course, but he says his initial impressions are that one of my main issues "identity disturbance," because of very often fluctuating self-esteem, suicidal thoughts very very often (daily usually) even at the most "benign" of perceived rejections or slights.

He says NPDers may have fluctuating self esteem but it's more fixed and less constantly up and down than people with identity issues.

I feel really happy that he doesn't think I have NPD from the first consult, i.e. I'm not a clear-cut case, but I still think he will end up concluding after a while that I have pathological vulnerable narcissism. I relate WAY more to vulnerable narcissism than BPD. I require constant attention and admiration for my looks and go crazy when I don't get it, manipulating people into giving me attention. I have a severe sense of entitlement and feel special. I antagonize and devalue people who don't seem to find me attractive.

And unlike BPD, I don't self-harm except for eating a diet that I know is hurting me and I get off on doing things that I know aren't good for me, because I kinda do hate myself, but I've never made a single deep cut in my arm. I think almost 90% of BPDs do.

Some comments on my identity disturbance:

  • I have very often shifting career choices and feeling of not knowing who I am.
  • I didn't tell him this yesterday, but for example, I moved to the city I live in now and didn't know why. I didn't really have a reason and still wonder what I'm doing here.
  • I'm also doing stand-up and don't feel like I have a why.
  • I don't have distinct values that I can pinpoint and always play devil's advocate.
  • When I was a child, I never understood how people had favorite colors or bands. I never did, I just pretended I did. I never fit into cliques and was always the outsider drifting between them. Part of this I'm sure is due to my asperger's traits, but maybe not all.

Maybe I won't fully qualify for any PD diagnosis, but I know my life is totally miserable and I struggle, I believe, even more than people with full blown diagnosable PDs.

Based on your "knowledge" of me on this forum, do you think this sounds accurate, that I could have BPD traits too, or does this not "feel" right?
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Re: Transference focused psychotherapy

Postby Akuma » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:54 am

covertunsure wrote:
Based on your "knowledge" of me on this forum, do you think this sounds accurate, that I could have BPD traits too, or does this not "feel" right?


I think a lot of therapists diagnose BPD only when you are the typical case, and make a clear inner distinction between BPD proper as defined in diagnostic manuals versus borderline organization.
I kinda understand the obsession with labels, but it will fade rather quickly, its a waste of time. NPD is the same rally, there is a DSM thing that is mostly used by clinicians just like BPD and then there is pathological narcissism as used [longterm] therapies and research, which can be overt/covert/grandiose/vulnerable - and which you can have on different levels. Kernberg for example has posted himself to explain that it can occur at three different levels, ranging from the neurotic to the borderline.
TLDR: Treatment goals / treatability etc. is not dependent on your DSM diagnosis, but on much more complicated factors.
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Re: Transference focused psychotherapy

Postby covertunsure » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:35 am

Akuma wrote:
covertunsure wrote:
Based on your "knowledge" of me on this forum, do you think this sounds accurate, that I could have BPD traits too, or does this not "feel" right?


I think a lot of therapists diagnose BPD only when you are the typical case, and make a clear inner distinction between BPD proper as defined in diagnostic manuals versus borderline organization.
I kinda understand the obsession with labels, but it will fade rather quickly, its a waste of time. NPD is the same rally, there is a DSM thing that is mostly used by clinicians just like BPD and then there is pathological narcissism as used [longterm] therapies and research, which can be overt/covert/grandiose/vulnerable - and which you can have on different levels. Kernberg for example has posted himself to explain that it can occur at three different levels, ranging from the neurotic to the borderline.
TLDR: Treatment goals / treatability etc. is not dependent on your DSM diagnosis, but on much more complicated factors.


I just really don't want to have pathological narcissism. That prospect is really scary to me. I feel at my gut that I have it and think he will conclude that as well, but somehow I'm hoping he will dissuade me of that notion. I would rather have BPD because it's thought to be less resistant to change and more treatable. And it's also more glamorous in the suffering they endure without the superiority and inferiority complexes. To me, it's more romantic...if that's even possible for a PD.
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Re: Transference focused psychotherapy

Postby Akuma » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:42 am

To me, it's more romantic...if that's even possible for a PD.


Uh yea. Cutting myself in the candlelight. ;)
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Re: Transference focused psychotherapy

Postby covertunsure » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:46 am

Akuma wrote:
To me, it's more romantic...if that's even possible for a PD.


Uh yea. Cutting myself in the candlelight. ;)


Yes, exactly. I wish I were a straightforward borderline who could just be cured or at least helped a lot. I'm this ######6 mess of a human being with pathological narcissism, which is supposedly almost intractable and hard to treat, AND borderline (perhaps) traits or at least what he calls "identity disturbance."

How did this even happen. Life's pretty unfair. :(
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