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Psy recommended PCL, HCR-20 tests, etc

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Psy recommended PCL, HCR-20 tests, etc

Postby Number23 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:36 am

I went to see a psychologist who made me take the Rorschach and the Thematic Apperception Test. I was referred by my psychiatrist to determine my personality structure and so on. In the report, it is recommended that I have the "PCL, HCR-20, etc" administered to me. What "etc" means I don't know.

Has anybody had similar experience? Is it only when you are in the midst of legal problems like I was?
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Re: Psy recommended PCL, HCR-20 tests, etc

Postby Akuma » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:37 am

Has anybody had similar experience? Is it only when you are in the midst of legal problems like I was?


Those are tools for forensic psychiatry. Essentially they're for assessing your risk of relapsing into more "legal problems" in the future.
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Re: Psy recommended PCL, HCR-20 tests, etc

Postby Number23 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:11 pm

Okay
Akuma wrote:Those are tools for forensic psychiatry. Essentially they're for assessing your risk of relapsing into more "legal problems" in the future.

Okay but apparently they are not standard procedure because none of the two forensic evaluations I had used these tests. Instead the first psy gave me the MMPI, which I failed, and the second gave me a battery of questionnaires in addition to a series of confrontational interviews.

By the way, I never took the PCL and HCR-20 because I didn't think it would help my case to even say to my lawyer that a psy had recommended these tests, let alone risk having bad scores.
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Re: Psy recommended PCL, HCR-20 tests, etc

Postby Number23 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:52 pm

I didn't try to fool the MMPI but I know it's tricky. If you answer "Yes" you have a disorder and if you answer "No" you have another. You want to appear healthy but not too much, otherwise you will be penalized for "faking good" and your scales will be boosted. The test could even be invalidated. Even if you are not faking good, you will get the negative results if you appear "too healthy" on some questions (there are over 500), and symptoms such as "denial", "repression", and "lack of introspection" will be applied to you.
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Re: Psy recommended PCL, HCR-20 tests, etc

Postby Akuma » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:12 am

Number23 wrote:Okay but apparently they are not standard procedure because none of the two forensic evaluations I had used these tests. Instead the first psy gave me the MMPI, which I failed, and the second gave me a battery of questionnaires in addition to a series of confrontational interviews.


Well with Rorschach and TAT youre the first person that I hear of who actually used those. TAT I had to google, Rorschach I've always known as the psych cliché from movies etc, I didnt know its actually used. Ive glossed over a paper about diagnostic tools in forensics, they are not seen as very effective, so they were probably used for some other purpose. PCL and HCR here at least seem standard for the prognosis of [recurrence] of violent crime.

It's funny you say you "failed" the MMPI. I take it you have psychopathic personality and you saw it more like a game?

I didn't try to fool the MMPI but I know it's tricky. If you answer "Yes" you have a disorder and if you answer "No" you have another.


Yea, also the MMPI-II also has trick questions that are not apparent when you havent studied the thing - you might have noticed it asks some stuff several times for example, which as you might have inferred tests for several things.
I think it makes more sense figuring out how to reduce your probability of colliding with the law in the future, compared to trying to fake psych tests - especially since youre in their books now anyways.
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Re: Psy recommended PCL, HCR-20 tests, etc

Postby Number23 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:36 am

Akuma wrote:Well with Rorschach and TAT youre the first person that I hear of who actually used those.[...]Ive glossed over a paper about diagnostic tools in forensics, they are not seen as very effective, so they were probably used for some other purpose.

Yeah, like I said, it was to determine my psychological structure. I wasn't forced by the justice system, it was just something my psychiatrist suggested.
PCL and HCR here at least seem standard for the prognosis of [recurrence] of violent crime.

I guess they weren't used with me during neither of my two forensic evaluations because perhaps they are second line tools when somebody presents a high enough risk. I was paying for the evaluations so since I failed the first one, I went to another psy who fortunately saw me in a good enough light and didn't need to use the PCL and HCR-20?
It's funny you say you "failed" the MMPI. I take it you have psychopathic personality and you saw it more like a game?

I failed the test because it gave so bad a picture of me that the psy could only hurt my case. My lawyer had told me to be honest, but it was a mistake. I wouldn't say I saw those evaluations as a game but rather serious business where if I have to lie and hide information, so be it. I don't think I'm psychopath in a strict sense.

I think it makes more sense figuring out how to reduce your probability of colliding with the law in the future, compared to trying to fake psych tests - especially since youre in their books now anyways.

Of course. I got off this time but I've been warned that the prospect of a next time scenario would be bleak.
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Re: Psy recommended PCL, HCR-20 tests, etc

Postby ZeroZ » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:10 am

Number23 wrote:
Akuma wrote:Well with Rorschach and TAT youre the first person that I hear of who actually used those.[...]Ive glossed over a paper about diagnostic tools in forensics, they are not seen as very effective, so they were probably used for some other purpose.

Yeah, like I said, it was to determine my psychological structure. I wasn't forced by the justice system, it was just something my psychiatrist suggested.
PCL and HCR here at least seem standard for the prognosis of [recurrence] of violent crime.

I guess they weren't used with me during neither of my two forensic evaluations because perhaps they are second line tools when somebody presents a high enough risk. I was paying for the evaluations so since I failed the first one, I went to another psy who fortunately saw me in a good enough light and didn't need to use the PCL and HCR-20?
It's funny you say you "failed" the MMPI. I take it you have psychopathic personality and you saw it more like a game?

I failed the test because it gave so bad a picture of me that the psy could only hurt my case. My lawyer had told me to be honest, but it was a mistake. I wouldn't say I saw those evaluations as a game but rather serious business where if I have to lie and hide information, so be it. I don't think I'm psychopath in a strict sense.

I think it makes more sense figuring out how to reduce your probability of colliding with the law in the future, compared to trying to fake psych tests - especially since youre in their books now anyways.

Of course. I got off this time but I've been warned that the prospect of a next time scenario would be bleak.


The worse thing you can do in a forensic setting is try to manipulate the tests to make yourself look better or like a perfect person who would never hurt anyone. I did that and I was accused of manipulating the test and lying (under oath) which ironically checked off a couple boxes for ASPD the rest just for the reasons I was there. They look for what your trying to hide just as much as what you tell them.
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Re: Psy recommended PCL, HCR-20 tests, etc

Postby Number23 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:44 pm

ZeroZ wrote:The worse thing you can do in a forensic setting is try to manipulate

I knew I couldn't afford to be caught lying, but after the first evaluation, I knew I had no choice.
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Re: Psy recommended PCL, HCR-20 tests, etc

Postby Number23 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:08 pm

Akuma wrote:PCL and HCR here at least seem standard for the prognosis of [recurrence] of violent crime.

I wasn't even accused of a violent crime, so the psy probably saw a potential for violence in her assessment.
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Re: Psy recommended PCL, HCR-20 tests, etc

Postby realityhere » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:58 am

If you're not being accused of a violent crime, then what are your psy evaluation tests for?

Are you going thru a divorce or having workplace issues, or something else that has mandated such tests?

Not trying to be nosy or offensive here, just asking to clarify what your circumstances are, so that readers here can perhaps get a better picture of why you're undergoing such tests and give replies more pertinent to what you're going thru. You don't have to go into personal details, a general description is sufficient.
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