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Is there more meaning on the other side?

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Is there more meaning on the other side?

Postby GadSitar » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:27 pm

Do regular folks lead better lives? They seem to get more out of life. They enjoy thing and enjoy meaningful relationships. Are we really missing out on so much being NPD?

I personally feel like there is no real meaning in my life. Something is missing like this is not going anywhere. I'm not depressed mind you. I just don't see the point in all of this. I have a decent job with a decent salary. I guess I should be grateful as many people struggle to get the money they need. But I just feel so disconnected from everything and everyone. I don't even find much pleasure in activities with others. What's the point in all of this? (I'm not arguing for suicide)
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Re: Is there more meaning on the other side?

Postby AProphet » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:30 pm

As pwNPD you are emotinally detached. Your existence is emptyness, a cosmic void. You are denied everything a human being needs biologicaly, we are a social animal. And the quest for external affirmation is tiring. But I guess you dont miss the meaningful relations, you have no concept of those.
Normal people want to be happy, experience joy. Becouse not being happy and joyous feels bad. pwNPD dont have that internal guidance system, so they just spent time, combat the boredom.
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Re: Is there more meaning on the other side?

Postby GadSitar » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:41 pm

AProphet wrote:As pwNPD you are emotinally detached. Your existence is emptyness, a cosmic void. You are denied everything a human being needs biologicaly, we are a social animal. And the quest for external affirmation is tiring. But I guess you dont miss the meaningful relations, you have no concept of those.
Normal people want to be happy, experience joy. Becouse not being happy and joyous feels bad. pwNPD dont have that internal guidance system, so they just spent time, combat the boredom.


That's a very accurate way of describing it. I felt such tremendous emptiness when I was 17 and decided to fill it with risky behaviour. That was my treatment for it. I started stealing and loved the sensation and excitement. Did other risky things as well.

I still have that emptiness but now I'm 10 years older. I feel like I haven't developed like other because I can't be enriched by experiences. How can you when you are so detached? Are we even human?
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Re: Is there more meaning on the other side?

Postby AProphet » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:52 pm

GadSitar wrote:I still have that emptiness but now I'm 10 years older. I feel like I haven't developed like other because I can't be enriched by experiences. How can you when you are so detached? Are we even human?


Indeed. I havent developed as a person eaither. Only my knowledge increased. With people I just kept making the same mistakes over and over, with no concept to learn. So I retreated from people to a world of drugs, memes, video games, history, politics, and stories. I liked to make people laugh. Maybe most of all. But could never maintain the relationships, treated the relationships as non-commital. I thought of everyone as my friends. That just made me being taken advantage of.

We are non-existence experiencing existence. Sometimes they call us "zombies". I think therefore I am. A narcissist doesnt think, and he doesnt know that.
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Re: Is there more meaning on the other side?

Postby GadSitar » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:19 pm

AProphet wrote:
GadSitar wrote:I still have that emptiness but now I'm 10 years older. I feel like I haven't developed like other because I can't be enriched by experiences. How can you when you are so detached? Are we even human?


Indeed. I havent developed as a person eaither. Only my knowledge increased. With people I just kept making the same mistakes over and over, with no concept to learn. So I retreated from people to a world of drugs, memes, video games, history, politics, and stories. I liked to make people laugh. Maybe most of all. But could never maintain the relationships, treated the relationships as non-commital. I thought of everyone as my friends. That just made me being taken advantage of.

We are non-existence experiencing existence. Sometimes they call us "zombies". I think therefore I am. A narcissist doesnt think, and he doesnt know that.


It is what it is.
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Re: Is there more meaning on the other side?

Postby SelfSerf » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:42 pm

GadSitar wrote:Do regular folks lead better lives? They seem to get more out of life. They enjoy thing and enjoy meaningful relationships. Are we really missing out on so much being NPD?

I personally feel like there is no real meaning in my life. Something is missing like this is not going anywhere. I'm not depressed mind you. I just don't see the point in all of this. I have a decent job with a decent salary. I guess I should be grateful as many people struggle to get the money they need. But I just feel so disconnected from everything and everyone. I don't even find much pleasure in activities with others. What's the point in all of this? (I'm not arguing for suicide)


For sure. More fulfilling, connected to others. It does come with the downside of having to experience every emotion under the sun but that is hard to imagine and omething that I would never truly know about, having only experienced what my untypical brain is capable of. But yeah, am in the same place. Worse is, knowing that it´s not truly going anywhere so you might as well add some more insults to injury.

Once I discovered that I am a narcissist, I came across A.H. Almaas´ book in searching for helpful literature on the disorder. It´s more a spiritual treatment of NPD but it features reference to many theories on it in psychiatry as well.

He has a book titled The Point of Existence: Transformations of Narcissism in Self-Realization" and I guess can look up what it is about on the website
https://www.diamondapproach.org/

Having been into the whole buddhist approach and latching onto any and every possible think while looking for solutions to my spiritual predicament, the word Self-realization really caught my interest and I kind of deceived myself into believing that all I would need in life was this book and a bit of therapy. Hey, as it turns out reading the book itself will not really challenge your disorder but it is interesting reading nonetheless. Philosophyically challenging, if you will.

It summarizes well actually happens to the psyche when the child chooses the false self as a way of coping in the world and as such might help with developing some empathy for yourself perhaps.

You can read it online here.
https://issuu.com/kutto/docs/a.h._almaa ... f_existenc
“Should I kill myself, or have a cup of coffee?”
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Re: Is there more meaning on the other side?

Postby Akuma » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:22 am

GadSitar wrote:Do regular folks lead better lives? They seem to get more out of life. They enjoy thing and enjoy meaningful relationships. Are we really missing out on so much being NPD?


I think it depends to who you compare yourself to or why. A lot of people with NPD for example never even realize they have a disorder and can live quite successful lives. So I dont think it necessarily has to do with "NPD" first of all. On the other side theres lots of people who are normal neurotics and they have to fight a lot, and fill their lives up with a lot of stuff, to not be bothered by the quite real existential dilemmas living beings are facing.
That being said though I think you are specific about what you think you can give meaning to or not. If you see "meaningful relationships" with other people and you look over to the greener side like this, than you have just given something meaning after all and you have also formulated a certain longing. If youre conscious of that of course is another matter. But if I'd be a therapist I'd probably see this as a positive prognostic indicator.
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Re: Is there more meaning on the other side?

Postby GadSitar » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:03 pm

Akuma wrote:
GadSitar wrote:Do regular folks lead better lives? They seem to get more out of life. They enjoy thing and enjoy meaningful relationships. Are we really missing out on so much being NPD?


I think it depends to who you compare yourself to or why. A lot of people with NPD for example never even realize they have a disorder and can live quite successful lives. So I dont think it necessarily has to do with "NPD" first of all. On the other side theres lots of people who are normal neurotics and they have to fight a lot, and fill their lives up with a lot of stuff, to not be bothered by the quite real existential dilemmas living beings are facing.
That being said though I think you are specific about what you think you can give meaning to or not. If you see "meaningful relationships" with other people and you look over to the greener side like this, than you have just given something meaning after all and you have also formulated a certain longing. If youre conscious of that of course is another matter. But if I'd be a therapist I'd probably see this as a positive prognostic indicator.


I think you are partially right. It may not be an issue specific to NPD although I would note that those individuals you mentioned are successful but not necessarily fulfilled. The NPD drives them to "succeed" more but surely there must be a way to accomplish a truer more lasting feeling of satisfaction in life that doesn't depend on your constant achievements. This is what I was alluding to.

You are right actually, if I have identified meaning in relationships then that is something I can work on personally. As mentioned before, I do plan to bring this up to the psychologist when I meet him.

How much change is an NPD capable of in this sphere Akuma? NPD is typically a disorder that sets you apart from others. How can one overcome the defence mechanisms inherent to it and improve the individual's ability to connect to others?
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Re: Is there more meaning on the other side?

Postby Akuma » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:31 pm

GadSitar wrote:
You are right actually, if I have identified meaning in relationships then that is something I can work on personally. As mentioned before, I do plan to bring this up to the psychologist when I meet him.

How much change is an NPD capable of in this sphere Akuma? NPD is typically a disorder that sets you apart from others.


As an answer to Philonoes request about identification processes I wanted to cite from this book that Donald Meltzer has written, which describes narcissistic disorders as a sort of withdrawal and identification into some archaic representations of the inner mother. He has described that patients can typically exit this constellation and get out into the word of external object-relations aka connect after a few years of intensive therapy [which for him is where the actual therapy can begin, because only then a transference is ready]. There is no statistics though to my knowledge and it depends a lot of course on what your specific type of disorder looks like.
I think the first obstacle is staying in therapy long enough for any meaningful change to manifest.

How can one overcome the defence mechanisms inherent to it and improve the individual's ability to connect to others?


Well I think the by-the-book answer would be that you overcome them by training that in the therapeutic relationship, which is really a sort of training-relationship. The difference being that there really is more or less an absence of relationship. But from what I've heard from others and what I see in myself this "exiting" seems to actually be a reality. Although a very slow one and one that is extremely oscillating.
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Re: Is there more meaning on the other side?

Postby GadSitar » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:02 pm

Akuma wrote:
GadSitar wrote:
You are right actually, if I have identified meaning in relationships then that is something I can work on personally. As mentioned before, I do plan to bring this up to the psychologist when I meet him.

How much change is an NPD capable of in this sphere Akuma? NPD is typically a disorder that sets you apart from others.


As an answer to Philonoes request about identification processes I wanted to cite from this book that Donald Meltzer has written, which describes narcissistic disorders as a sort of withdrawal and identification into some archaic representations of the inner mother. He has described that patients can typically exit this constellation and get out into the word of external object-relations aka connect after a few years of intensive therapy [which for him is where the actual therapy can begin, because only then a transference is ready]. There is no statistics though to my knowledge and it depends a lot of course on what your specific type of disorder looks like.
I think the first obstacle is staying in therapy long enough for any meaningful change to manifest.

How can one overcome the defence mechanisms inherent to it and improve the individual's ability to connect to others?


Well I think the by-the-book answer would be that you overcome them by training that in the therapeutic relationship, which is really a sort of training-relationship. The difference being that there really is more or less an absence of relationship. But from what I've heard from others and what I see in myself this "exiting" seems to actually be a reality. Although a very slow one and one that is extremely oscillating.


Sounds terrifying to an NPD like me. It's like saying drop your shield and weapon during a battle. So much vulnerability in the face of daily threats... which brings me to this question I have always wondered about... How do regular people deal with this vulnerability or say feeling of being exposed to the world? Why don't they feel threatened and that they must protect themselves?
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