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Is NPD synonymous with abuse?

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Is NPD synonymous with abuse?

Postby GadSitar » Thu May 23, 2019 8:21 am

Does having NPD mean you are definitely an abuser? Can you have bpd and not abuse people or is that something you have to come to a realisation to in order to stop?

I have abused people in my life, often unintentionally. I can't remember many occasions when I deliberately abused someone for the sheer fun on it. Though some instances occurred when I was a child. Harming my cousins by ramming a chair in their faces and laughing at their pain. Throwing some kid onto barbed wire. Even abusing animals. But nowadays the furthest I would go is lashing out at someone when provoked.

I was abusive to someone in my life and there were some horrible consequences as a result. Ever since I have come to a realisation I should stop my behaviour. It wasn't out of empathy but just a realisation a to the consequences of my behaviour. Is it common for narcissists to "develop" in this respect?
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Re: Is NPD synonymous with abuse?

Postby Akuma » Thu May 23, 2019 11:34 am

No. If you're abusive rests on a lot of stuff. First and foremost in my opinion not even if you have empathy or a conscience but if you have impulse control. Basically the more your brain orients towards the borderline, the less impulse control will there be and the more you might explode into peoples faces, or do "antisocial" stuff.
Then its also a matter of perspective though. I think its a lot to do with some ingrained idea about nature/nurture where people have still not gotten their head around that this duality doesn't exist. So they will tolerate "abusive" behavior by people with brain damage or with autism spectrum disorders for example and possibly show understanding for them, while people with psychopathic or narcissistic o.o. disorders might be seen as much more abusive doing (or not doing) the same stuff.
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Re: Is NPD synonymous with abuse?

Postby GadSitar » Thu May 23, 2019 11:48 am

Please elaborate on nature vs nurture. What do you think applies instead?
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Re: Is NPD synonymous with abuse?

Postby Akuma » Thu May 23, 2019 1:20 pm

GadSitar wrote:Please elaborate on nature vs nurture. What do you think applies instead?


I got no idea what "applies", I think it depends who you ask.
But I remember a cool video in a lecture once but I sadly have forgotten where it was... might have been in something about pathogenesis of schizophrenia I dont remember. In any event the idea was that nature and nurture are basically one and the same thing just seen from different perspectives. So when you are zooming in and you are looking at genes, molecules etc. you are very much in nature territory, but if you zoom out then at some point you are in nurture territory; with fields like epigenetics showing that genetic influence can be changed by outside or behavioral factors, while of course also genetics influencing behavior again etc.
In my experience this seeming duality mostly shows up in discussions where its either about "whose fault it is" or "if it can be changed". Mostly people rushing towards unchangeable nature territory when they are either trying to protect themselves from realizing they have f.e. been $#%^ parents or when they have certain disorders that they think are either not disorders at all or that - since its all nature - cant be changed etc; so using this to rationalize staying the way they are. So thats what I think makes one or the other apply in the individual a lot, or so Ive seen at least.
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Re: Is NPD synonymous with abuse?

Postby xdude » Thu May 23, 2019 2:43 pm

I agree with Akuma here.

People struggling with NPD are not necessarily abusive (I suppose some are but not all), and I am going to add one other thought... I doubt people most people with BPD mean to be abusive either. But again, I want to reiterate, everyone is welcome to disagree with me, being a moderator does NOT make me right, these are just my personal views.

Something I try to raise as a thought on the SOFF forum and Relationship forum is why did you fall for someone with a NPD personality (or BPD personality), or other cluster B type?

What did you want from them?

I think the deeper issue if any is that some people see NPD types (and BPD types) as archetypes, that's what others the fall for, the extremes, and then are disappointed they can't be what they wanted. It's impossible to be that archetype forever. That's not abuse, it's just "I can't be what you want me to be". For some that may go back to childhood, needing to be perfect, special, outside the norm, etc, to be cared for.
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Re: Is NPD synonymous with abuse?

Postby Greebo » Thu May 23, 2019 4:27 pm

“Predeterminism: is it a thing?”

Empirically becoming an abuser, whether in the form of child sexual abuse, intimate partner violence or just straight forward rape, correlates to two primary risk factors: Substance abuse and a history of abuse in childhood.

I doubt any kind of mental disorder is going to give you a leg up in the world’s most lovely person contest, but it doesn’t necessarily make you behave like a turd either.

You’ve also got to ask some serious questions as to what constitutes abuse.
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Re: Is NPD synonymous with abuse?

Postby Cassandre » Thu May 30, 2019 1:45 am

xdude wrote:Something I try to raise as a thought on the SOFF forum and Relationship forum is why did you fall for someone with a NPD personality (or BPD personality), or other cluster B type?

What did you want from them?


When I think of the disordered or dysfunctional couples I know, it is always some form of familiarity that brings them together.

xdude wrote:I think the deeper issue if any is that some people see NPD types (and BPD types) as archetypes, that's what others the fall for, the extremes, and then are disappointed they can't be what they wanted. It's impossible to be that archetype forever. That's not abuse, it's just "I can't be what you want me to be". For some that may go back to childhood, needing to be perfect, special, outside the norm, etc, to be cared for.


Well if someone is upfront: "I suffer from XYZ deficiency". Then sure it's on the partner to make a decision.

NPD or BPD is a disorder that can artfully mirror a person's needs on a punctual basis but will prioritize its own needs on the long run. It may be the only strategy you've learned to feel loved, but is deceptive in essence.
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