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NPD Stories.

Postby chaman » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:18 am

This question is mostly addressed to people who have the Narcissistic Personality Disorder diagnosis. People who have closely interacted with one can contribute with useful information regarding to the thread.

How were you diagnosed? Did it surprised you in a bad manner or did you liked it? Also, Do you think using the energy of your personal Narcissism has actually helped you succeed in life in whatsoever aspect-(morality does not apply here)? Has self awareness of your own Narcissism helped you improve empathy or made you evolve in a manner were you hide better your negative sides?

Feel free to share your thoughts and anecdotes here.

as i stated above, i appreciate your answers related to the thread.

Have a nice day.
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Re: NPD Stories.

Postby Akuma » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:11 pm

chaman wrote:How were you diagnosed?


First by a team of a psychoanalyst and a psychodynamic psychologist at an institute here and then by my current therapist.

Did it surprised you in a bad manner or did you liked it?


It had no effect on me whatsoever. I had done a lot of reading before already so I basically went there and said here is what I think I have because of this this and that and they did their interview and basically just confirmed it. I dont see the value in a diagnosis anymore like I did at the beginning though; long-term / intensive therapies aren't narrow enough for a diagnosis to be very essential.

Also, Do you think using the energy of your personal Narcissism has actually helped you succeed in life in whatsoever aspect-(morality does not apply here)?


My type of disorder has basically solely negative symptoms, so no.

Has self awareness of your own Narcissism helped you improve empathy or made you evolve in a manner were you hide better your negative sides?


Self-awareness is useless. The real long-term changes are based on constantly working on stuff and confronting and tolerating things you normally wouldn't. So the awareness isnt awareness of some "disorder" one has but a switching awareness of certain affects, expectations, behaviors, cognitive things, defenses etc which are currently being focused on / came up in therapy.
Concerning empathy - I see no need to improve it. I sometimes see a curious lack of empathy in other people though. I was at my grandmas 90th bday a bit ago and my grandfather has mid-level dementia, forgetting that I'm his grandson and that his wife has bday etc. People over and over reminded him of the bday and seemed totally oblivious as to how distressed this made him every single time.
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Re: NPD Stories.

Postby realityhere » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:57 pm

@Akuma,

"Self-awareness is useless. The real long-term changes are based on constantly working on stuff and confronting and tolerating things you normally wouldn't. So the awareness isnt awareness of some "disorder" one has but a switching awareness of certain affects, expectations, behaviors, cognitive things, defenses etc which are currently being focused on / came up in therapy."

I can understand that this takes a lot of mental energy to do, that awareness is more about the behavior the disorder creates. It seems to require being consciously aware of how you react in certain situations with ppl. This is true of not just PDs in general but other disorders like ADHD, for example, too. That can be exhausting.

"I was at my grandmas 90th bday a bit ago and my grandfather has mid-level dementia, forgetting that I'm his grandson and that his wife has bday etc. People over and over reminded him of the bday and seemed totally oblivious as to how distressed this made him every single time."

Ah, I can understand the dilemma that presents for someone with dementia, such a person forgets minutes afterwards but gets distressed being reminded over and over because he can't retain the memory. Ppl at an elderly person's birthday celebration usually don't know the elderly folks' medical or mental issues, clueless if anything, and are usually not mindful to ask other family members first about their elderly relatives' condition beforehand. It isn't always intentional on their part-- just plain ignorance.
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Re: NPD Stories.

Postby Akuma » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:24 am

Ah, I can understand the dilemma that presents for someone with dementia, such a person forgets minutes afterwards but gets distressed being reminded over and over because he can't retain the memory. Ppl at an elderly person's birthday celebration usually don't know the elderly folks' medical or mental issues, clueless if anything, and are usually not mindful to ask other family members first about their elderly relatives' condition beforehand. It isn't always intentional on their part-- just plain ignorance.


I would rather think he was distressed because he couldnt understand [and forgot every few minutes] how he could forget the birthday of his wife. I found the lack of realizing such effect pretty - hmm - disgusting tbh. And the people being so ignorant werent random attendants but his daughters, aka f.e. my mother and his wife. I cant fathom how it can be so hard to put yourself into that persons shoes, it makes me irritated even now.

Beh. :?
Anyways, I just wanted to give it as an example, since the newer research on empathy in NPD shows after all, that ther eis no empathy restriction like in people with ASD for example.
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Re: NPD Stories.

Postby realityhere » Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:35 am

"I would rather think he was distressed because he couldnt understand [and forgot every few minutes] how he could forget the birthday of his wife."

That's what I meant, but you said it better. Unfortunately the aging process robs some mental or physical ability in ppl and they don't have much control over that. That's what is frustrating, while others appear to be patronizing.

Research has shown that pwNPD do have some empathy, but it seems to be more the cognitive type versus emotional type of empathy.
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Re: NPD Stories.

Postby Absinthe » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:00 pm

Akuma wrote:the newer research on empathy in NPD shows after all, that ther eis no empathy restriction like in people with ASD for example.

Is there a link you can share?
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Re: NPD Stories.

Postby Akuma » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:49 pm

dx: dissociative disorder + npd
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Re: NPD Stories.

Postby CopyCat27 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:01 am

realityhere wrote:"I would rather think he was distressed because he couldnt understand [and forgot every few minutes] how he could forget the birthday of his wife."

That's what I meant, but you said it better. Unfortunately the aging process robs some mental or physical ability in ppl and they don't have much control over that. That's what is frustrating, while others appear to be patronizing.

Research has shown that pwNPD do have some empathy, but it seems to be more the cognitive type versus emotional type of empathy.


Spot on. Just like the cognitive empathy of autistic people. They can empathise cognitively but can't express real felt empathy not because they lack the feeling.

Now the npd has what I prefer to call cold empathy. It's a form of cognitive empathy but without the balancing internal empathy. You can learn more about this by referring to Sam Vaknin. The cold empathy is a sort of x ray machine that can sense what others feel but is only used for the selfish reasons of the pwnpd.

Regarding the op... I doubt they can learn genuine empathy because the defence mechanism is ossified. But! There is evidence to show that behaviour can improve after punishment and consequences. They realise that something is wrong and for self preservation will adjust behaviour to what is considered acceptable by society. Which of course a narcissist can't really touch on deeply because of the lack of empathy. It's like a cat being trained to behave like a dog. It's learned but does not touch on any internal feelings identity...etc

So for example. I can consciously choose to act empathetic but thinking of others needs. But I never do this automatically. If I'm in my head or forget myself then I will act inconsiderate by nature.

It's tormenting to be honest...
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Re: NPD Stories.

Postby Absinthe » Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:38 pm

Vaknin is about as much of an authority on NPD as Trump is on leadership. :roll:

There are better sources available.
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Re: NPD Stories.

Postby Akuma » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:39 am

First of all sorry if I'm offtopicing too much but it might be useful to some readers to have this clarified.

Spot on. Just like the cognitive empathy of autistic people. They can empathise cognitively but can't express real felt empathy not because they lack the feeling.


Well my point was quite the opposite. pwASD lack cognitive empathy and often the ability to read facial expressions [of other peoples emotions] correctly; check google scholar if you are interested in this.
The second thing, "real felt empathy" is a bit of an emotional warble which reminds me of what the people in my little story probably would say. To my experience they can be good at being contaminated by what they think are other peoples emotions but often can't act on what really goes on in the other person. So quite frankly I totally opposed to the idea of emotional contagion being "real empathy" - I think lots of people on this forum have this idea because they have never experienced empathy or someone really listening to them in their lifes, but - to use a word here I learned from Quoth which I really liek - "emotional empathy" in many cases is just a part of emotional reasoning, and can in many cases be a precurser to abuse.

You can learn more about this by referring to Sam Vaknin.


Like Absinthe noted, Vaknin is basically a nothing in regards to NPD, he has never treated or researched NPD, holds no relevant degrees and also does not have NPD himself, nor was he ever in any long-term therapeutic treatment. He is in fact a diagnosed psychopath, an ex(?)-con and his writings, as broadly available as they are, are fault-ridden summaries of other peoples works intertwined with this own baseless theories about an illness he barely understands.
If you are looking for an introduction, Elsa Ronningstams work is still a good and relatively accessible starting-point.
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