Questions about Family situations from Nons

Jacksback wrote:I am trying to get some feedback on how to handle a situation where my mother forgets my sons birthdays. I am confused about what I should do. Should I remind her of their birthdays or just let it be? She lives a state away, only sees them a few times a year, never calls, I always have to call her to get the boys on phone with her.

Should I let her find out later that she forgot her grandsons birthdays? Is it I my responsibility as a parent to remind her? She even forgets my birthday on occasion.

I'm NPD and I'm bad at remembering birthdays.

If you want her to have a relationship with your kids, you should talk to her about this. Ask her how she would like to handle it. It may be important to her to acknowledge their birthdays, but she's like me and sucks at remembering. You can keep the peace by showing her how to program the birthdays in her phone and set a reminder a few weeks in advance.

It may not be important to her, in which case there's not much you can do. But start with the assumption that it does matter.

Hi there,
This is my first post. My husband and I are in a strange situation. We both have mothers with what we believe have NPD. We met through our parents being friends who actually are no longer friends of course as either of them can continue a normal relationship with anyone due to there severe hatred for people. They met at a swingers club.. which they actually owned when we were younger. My husband and I have both suffered abuse from them as children in different ways. My mother never had formed an attachment with me and gave me up when I was a newborn to about a year and a half. She then fought for me back after she found a boyfriend and thought she had her life back together. After living with them they both were very selfish and physically and emotionally abusive to me as a child. When I met my husband at age 16 I thought I had an escape route not realizing his mother and sister were even more emotionally narcissistic than I could have ever imagined. I moved in with his parents while he went away to college and they often gave me the silence treatment, spoke about me when I wasn't in the room, put tape recorders on the phone so they could listen to our phone conversations, were extremely jealous of anything I accomplished. After my husband moved back from college we moved away and they rarely spoke to us, gave us the silent treatment and I was actually ok with that. When we moved back closer to them hell broke loose. They demanded things be done for them all the time, but never offered a hand to us with anything. On our wedding day his parents told us we were trying to bankrupt them even though we didn't take a penny from them. We went out for dinner and they asked us who was paying on our wedding night. We did pay for everyone. I went to college to become a nurse and both his mom and sister were so incredibly jealous they told me I could never do it. (Which I did for the record) and every single idea I had in life they tried to mimic, but not only mimic do better. I lashed out at his sister when she continuously texted me to get my husband to go renovate her house for her and she snapped at me when I told her I had too much going on. She blatantly put me down for feeling "too stressed out" I was pregnant at the time and we had a leaking roof in our house that nobody offered to help us with while both her parents spent every day at the sisters house gutting. His mother was so angry that I finally stepped up to say something because that is something we had never ever had the courage to do. His mother developed lung cancer and had to go through chemotherapy. I went to the hospital every day with my 6 month old son after her surgery so she wouldn't be alone and I offered all the time I could to her but she refused quite often. When my husband and I went to her house to help her renovate her bedroom for her I had my son sleeping in the living room and I was sweeping the kitchen while his mom and sister and friend were in the bedroom. I literally could hear them talking and laughing about me in the other room. I was so upset but I did nothing. She is fully recovered from cancer now and we moved about 18hours away. My mother followed me. She told me no matter where I go she will go too. She just went broke and moved back recently because she couldn't pay her mortgage with the new husband she has now, so she's temporarily renting out her house. She wanted me to send Her Percocet prescription to her in the mail
After she moved, and I refused because it is illegal and she snapped on me. Told me to keep pretending I'm perfect. I told her then to stay with her boyfriends mom when she decided to come back down and she lost her mind. I told her boyfriends mom the truth about her and she found out and told me she no longer considers me her daughter anymore and that I'm a bad mom not allowing her to see my son. Now my husbands mom just came down with the golden child sister and told me she is planning on moving close again! I think not! My husband flat out told them that is not a good idea, but made up an excuse that we were planning on moving again. He also confronted her when she was seen trying to tell my son to call me by my first name and say that I am weird. They were so mad that they went home a week early. I don't know what to do anymore. Should I completely cut these people out of my life? If so how do I go about doing it? I'm actually worried and want to move again to get away from these crazy people.

I did not see any true question other then, "If you have any input I’m happy to hear it!"

As a true narcissistic father myself here is my advice.

Your father, is absolutely useless to your development from the words I read. Understand at this very moment, you will most likely never have a valuable relationship with him. Perhaps.. in the future you may. But don't count on it.

Your main goal should be to strengthen your own soul to understand, this man is not worth your tears or care. What is (or may be) worthwhile, is doing your best to keep the peace in the house for the rest of your family until you leave that house for good.

I highly suggest starting a very healthy daily workout routine and read any book that you find interesting. The best defenses we have are our mind and body. Make them strong.

There is absolutely no reason other then our genetic need and social structure to care about our parents. You are not a bad person for not giving one tiny care about them. Remove all feelings of guilt. It is not your fault your father is the way he is. What is and will be your fault, is how you handle the situation.

Do you best to save those you deem worthy, and let those not worthy drown in their own filth.

-BLESS

Tinkerbelle wrote:Hi there, This is my first post. My husband and I are in a strange situation.

Welcome and I shall overstep my bounds and probably trigger you after attempting to read your post.

Learn to format a post better. Almost no one will read what you wrote due to it being a wall of text. You seem to have much to say, so learn to say it better.

After skimming your post, the only feeling I had was you and your husband sound so very weak. You sound like you have been adults for quite some time and yet let these people almost destroy you. So very.. very.. weak.

Let me save you. Tell these people to ###$ off. All of them. If at a later date they want to interact with you on your terms, by all means try again. But until such a time. You are enabling them. You are the food that is feeding them.

Stop being food.
~BLESS

Hi. I'm not sure if this is being posted in the right place. I'm in my mid 60.s, and caregiving an NPD father who is often verbally abusive when I am away from home for more than a few hours. I went minimal contact from him for over 30 years, and have been here now for about 7 years. The abuse started almost immediately, and I kind of systematically addressed it as it rose up. At first subtle looks and eyerolling at my preferences of food or entertainment...then on to criticisms and sarcasm for my asthmatic condition and more fragile physical constitution than most in my family. It moved into being belittled and name calling by about the 4th year. I learned what I could about N people, as I could see the family pattern looking back over my life. I set as clear boundaries as I could on his behavior, over and over. Now that my dad is getting more dependent on me (he's 92), it is getting into full blown scapegoating, tantrums, screaming, and demanding. Especially after I come in from a day with friends. I do call to let him know not to worry, and he doesn't answer the phone. I'm getting so innerly raged with his unreasonable nature, I don't want to be here. It's not just anger anymore, or frustration...it's my rage welling up in me, and it's scaring me. Even that I've been here for a while, I don't feel I have the stamina to caregive my dad. I also have a schizophrenic sister who lives here and I assist her too. I work 4 days a week to get away from it. I just want away from it all. I don't know what my question is, but I think it is about how to assess if I should keep trying, or get out? When is it time to get out? My rage floods me, and I go over and over his blowups in my head. Any direction is much appreciated.

Could it be that -

my love for the N, or my perception of him as a victim, or my co-dependence, or my need to “see the N as a hero”, or my brain-washing, or my learned self-doubt and self-hate and lack of trust in my own judgement and perceptions, or some other aspect of N abuse -

caused it to happen that I could not or would not acknowledge that I was a indeed a target of N abuse?

If that was the case then the N did an amazing job on me, from a very young age, and I was so intensely and so extremely immersed in it all that I kept looking for “what was wrongs with me” as opposed to “what was wrong with the N”?

I was so trained to self-guilt and self-blame etc. that even now, I am still questioning whether this really is the case?
Or whether I am really an N myself by thinking that I am the “right and superior one”, and not the bad person the N tells me I am?
Or that I am a “victim type N", is such a thing exists - like the N in my life seemed to be?

Does a Narcissist know that they are a Narcissist? And would I know if I was an N?

2unity wrote:Does a Narcissist know that they are a Narcissist? And would I know if I was an N?

I think it's unusual for narcs to know...it's a level of insight into self that is totally counter to what we believe in the core of our being...which is that we're on the side of right and everyone else is ###$ up.

But awareness can happen.

@swansong1,

Caregiver burnout. It can happen to anybody, even with an elderly parent who isn't disordered. Caregiving is a stressful job and I don't blame you for wanting to work or see friends in order to get away from it all. I've been there.

As your father is in his 90's, there is presumably a good deal of dependence on someone who can help him with what he needs. The time to give up on caretaking is when you no longer can do it yourself, physically or mentally, and don't have a life of your own.

Since you work a job, is it possible to hire a part-time caretaker or go-fer to help out with your dad, so that you can take time for yourself and save your sanity? If he requires personal assistance with personal grooming tasks or has to be driven to places, have you considered the option of placement in an assisted living center for seniors or something similar? You don't indicate if assisted living placement is possible where you live and whether it's financially feasible to do so. Are there other siblings who can help shoulder the caregiving burden?

A PD disordered parent will always push your buttons and you're the closest target to blame for not living up to his expectations. Always moving the goal-posts and it's frustrating/triggering. Have you considered going "grey rock"? Look up going 'grey rock' in a disordered relationship online, if you're not familiar with it. I understand that putting up boundaries only to find he crosses them constantly is exhausting, but don't give up on reinforcing them. Reinforcing your boundaries is the only way to remind the old man that you don't put up with his s**t. You have the option of just quietly walking out of the house and going somewhere else when he starts a rage. Let him cool his heels and realize that you no longer put up with being the scapegoat.

Best to you~

Hoping for some advice on how my elderly parents can move forward with my sister ( a married, 60 yo mother) who displays most of the characteristics of NPD.
The current issue:
She has been becoming increasingly demanding and controlling particularly of their home. Insisting to come over when they are going out. Coming late to their home and demanding (yelling, screaming, threatening to make them afraid of her) they allow her to sleep over when they have told her it wouldn't work out. Coming to their home when asked not to come and pushing in and refusing to leave.

They had to go no contact (which was terrible for them) for several months after a particularly stressful series of aggressive intrusions, which also drove them to tell her if her behavior continued they would not attend an upcoming family party, because they could no longer pretend everything was OK.

That seemed to keep a lid on her behavior and they went to the party after which they called her to let her know they could no longer have her at their home because of her behavior but loved her and wanted to find a way to enjoy time with her

Advice needed here on how they can see her in this new reality:
My sister has begun insisting she has all kinds of "restrictions" (that only exist for traveling to my parents home, and don't seem necessary when it suits my sister) , concerning her traveling to see my parents, as a way to force them to accommodate her at their home.

So my elderly parents are feeling boxed in. That now that they can no longer cope with her behavior in their home they must travel to her home (which is hard for them).
To me this seems more of the same. She has restrictions that they must meet.

Would it be more effective, as far as setting boundaries, if they expected her to consider their limitations as well?
Would it help or hurt if they acknowledge her stated issues ?

ex: "we understand that the commuter traffic makes driving here difficult for you , so lets plan get-togethers on Saturdays or Sundays"
or
"you say you are not always up to driving, let us know when her husband or kids are available to drive you and we'll plan around that"


any help appreciated

Hello everyone,

I am a 29 years old woman and my mother was diagnosed with psychotic depression when I was 2 years old. She was not well until I was almost 9 years old. When I was 9 years old in my eyes she `healed` she was more energetic was able to conduct daily activities and work my family also took me out of public school and sent me to a private school this was my mother's wish for me and I think it was a great motivation for her to support my education and try to compensate my childhood...

I use healing in brackets because looking back I can see that she still had serious problems, even if she was energetic and she was engaged in daily activities , she was overspending, doing lots of shopping, also she was aggressive and extremely sensitive towards criticism and also she tried to keep my life under her control, she did not want me to move out of the family house and she did her best to prevent me looking for jobs in other cities outside of hometown etc...

I dont want to keep it too long but I graduated from university in 2011 and in 2012 her depression striked back. We have found a great psychiatrist for my mother however she does not seem to benefit much from the psychotherapy and is not very keen to apply the advise that she is receiving.

When I was 25 years old I also realized that I myself also need therapy. I had been terrible with romantic relationships I was always depressed had low self esteem etc so I started to see my mother's therapist as well.

As I started my own therapy my ability to engage in meaningful relationships greatly improved. Currently I am engaged to my fiance whom I met in late 2015 and we are about to get married indeed our wedding is now 20 days ahead.

My fiance had a terrible relationship with his parents. 1-2 years after we started our relationship with my fiance I also started to struggle with them. They were also very controlling and treating my fiance as a child not a grown up man. They were like bosses to my fiance rather than parents. When I also started to struggle with them I advised my fiance to go to couples therapy together (again with the same psychiatrist)

My mother's therapist never told us explicitly that our parents are narcissists but he is referring to the concepts of enmeshment and emotional incest he also benefits a lot from Bowen Theory during our sessions.

Together with our fiance we also read some books about narcisistic parenting and did some tests which were available on the book which also proved to us that my mother and both of his parents might have NPD.

We are receiving support and help but something happened this week and I do not know how to cope with it. So I want to ask your advise about the situation.

Two days ago we met my fiance and his mother for some errands for the wedding and currently my fiance and his mother are staying in my fiance's flat (she will move out once we are back from honey moon) After we did our errands and later my fiance's mother invited us to my fiances flat for some tea. When we were about to enter the flat my mother rushed to the bathroom telling us that she needs to pee immediately. When she got out of the bathroom she did not sit down claiming that she realized she had some ketchup on her pants and she did not want to ruin the furniture.

So we did not stay much and left. After we left my fiance and his mother realized that my mother actually could not make it to the bathroom and peed drop by drop on the corridor and she also somehow peed on the bathroom mat.

By the way I also have to say that because my fiance's mother is also probably NPD and certainly enmeshed to my fiance we did not tell much about my mother's condition to her and I do not want to explain because I do not think she will understand.

So when my fiance told me about this this was very embarrasing for me because my probably NPD mother in law washed my mother's pee (by the way we are walking on eggshells with her all the time since she wants to take control of the wedding house decoration etc)

And when I asked my mother about whether she peed on herself she denied and she accused my fiance and her mother of `plotting against her` and she started to claim that she does not want to see my fiance and his mother again.

She also said horrible things to me because I did not believe in the `plotting against her` theory and told her that she does not have the right to ruin my relationship and wedding preparations like this.

Help please!