Other PD and NPD Relationship support

Hebi wrote:
https://youtu.be/i9GYExnh1yU

This documentary, Child of Rage, explains a bit of how damaging neglect can be at an early age.

I watched this before. It was very upsetting to me. I really just wanna give her a hug. It was cool to read she is a psychologist herself nowadays.

-- Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:06 pm --

Hebi wrote:*yawn* I sometimes dumb myself down to try and relate to others, as being pretentious can discourage some in conversation. But thanks for the biological breakdown.

In my experience, those who know the most almost always speak in simple phrases, so both a 5-year-old and a genius could equally understand them. Being pretentious I usually connect with hiding lack of knowledge or having a complex of some kind. There're exceptions, probably.

sorrynotsorry wrote:I am I think BPD, a submissive, and I think my former Dom is NPD. And I arrived at this forum simply looking for answers to the riddle of the BPD/NPD attraction/repulsion cycle. And low and behind you are all talking about the link to BDSM. And the pieces fall into place. I’m so exhausted.

Welcome @sorrynotsorry. I also started reading this board under similar circumstances and found a great deal of insight and understanding from the information and discussion here. As I have stated in a prior post, I believe that there is an inherent BDSM dynamic in the NPD/BPD relationship regardless of whether it is intentional or not based on how the partners interact with each other due to the aspects of their PD. I don't think this is necessarily bad or to be avoided, although others may argue that it is a toxic scenario best avoided. I do however believe that self-awareness and insight is beneficial.

My perspective is that only you can make that choice for yourself and decide what you want. For some people "recovery" from BPD or NPD may not be possible ( again, others may argue against) and consequently this relationship and the BDSM inherent in it is the best and most that they can hope for. For myself, I enjoy the BDSM aspect because as others have pointed out it offers a means to play out the trauma in a safe and controlled environment. Many people online and on this forum will tell you that the BPD/NPD relationship is toxic and doomed to fail but I don't know that I buy that.... I think it can work but not without it's drama, and challenges..... but as a pwBPD I am destined for that kind of relationship regardless. There are marriages between NPD/BPD that have lasted for years and although perhaps not the most healthy of pairings, the partners have stayed nonetheless.

I am reading "Furious Love" currently about the love affair between Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton and despite not being together at the end when he died, Elizabeth had every expectation that they would get back together again at some point and to the end of his life and also hers both persons named each other as the loves of their lives. I don't know if the parties involved were BPD or NPD but I highly suspect that they probably were given what we can garner from a skewed third party perspective. And certainly their relationship played out much the same as many BPD/NPD relationships do. Am I advocating this relationship as a model of healthy love and attachment? Certainly not, but for them and perhaps for many people with a PD it is may be the best that they could and we can hope for.

shanzeek wrote:I watched this before. It was very upsetting to me. I really just wanna give her a hug. It was cool to read she is a psychologist herself nowadays.

Yes! I love stories like this, a kid at a disadvantage due to circumstances beyond their control, but thanks to the vigilance and intervention of people that believed in her and had hope, she now thrives and helps other troubled kids to hopefully do the same. This is what having an impact on the world looks like.

-- Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:06 pm --

shanzeek wrote:In my experience, those who know the most almost always speak in simple phrases, so both a 5-year-old and a genius could equally understand them. Being pretentious I usually connect with hiding lack of knowledge or having a complex of some kind. There're exceptions, probably.

There are so many different forms of intelligence. Dismissing others because you can’t see the value of their opinion, maybe because they lack a certain vocabulary, or maybe a formal education, etc. is close minded and really just going to lead to your own shortage of real life experience and knowledge. I think that I’ve learned something of value from every single person I’ve had an nonjudgmental conversation with. From my little brother who’s autistic, to my lab rat organic chemist friend who works for the university, to some guy at the bar that was illiterate until one of the regulars there had taught him to read while they were in prison together lol

Biggirlscry wrote:

sorrynotsorry wrote:I am I think BPD, a submissive, and I think my former Dom is NPD. And I arrived at this forum simply looking for answers to the riddle of the BPD/NPD attraction/repulsion cycle. And low and behind you are all talking about the link to BDSM. And the pieces fall into place. I’m so exhausted.

Welcome @sorrynotsorry. I also started reading this board under similar circumstances and found a great deal of insight and understanding from the information and discussion here. As I have stated in a prior post, I believe that there is an inherent BDSM dynamic in the NPD/BPD relationship regardless of whether it is intentional or not based on how the partners interact with each other due to the aspects of their PD. I don't think this is necessarily bad or to be avoided, although others may argue that it is a toxic scenario best avoided. I do however believe that self-awareness and insight is beneficial.

My perspective is that only you can make that choice for yourself and decide what you want. For some people "recovery" from BPD or NPD may not be possible ( again, others may argue against) and consequently this relationship and the BDSM inherent in it is the best and most that they can hope for. For myself, I enjoy the BDSM aspect because as others have pointed out it offers a means to play out the trauma in a safe and controlled environment. Many people online and on this forum will tell you that the BPD/NPD relationship is toxic and doomed to fail but I don't know that I buy that.... I think it can work but not without it's drama, and challenges..... but as a pwBPD I am destined for that kind of relationship regardless. There are marriages between NPD/BPD that have lasted for years and although perhaps not the most healthy of pairings, the partners have stayed nonetheless.

I am reading "Furious Love" currently about the love affair between Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton and despite not being together at the end when he died, Elizabeth had every expectation that they would get back together again at some point and to the end of his life and also hers both persons named each other as the loves of their lives. I don't know if the parties involved were BPD or NPD but I highly suspect that they probably were given what we can garner from a skewed third party perspective. And certainly their relationship played out much the same as many BPD/NPD relationships do. Am I advocating this relationship as a model of healthy love and attachment? Certainly not, but for them and perhaps for many people with a PD it is maybe the best that they could and we can hope for.

Thank you so much. I saw your other reply regarding being in a boring and sexless marriage and I was in one of those for 14 years with a very weak man. I would take this crazy $#%^ with my NPD any day of the week over that situation. I guess right now, since I’m currently in a discard phase, I am wondering about the fact that I am self aware but he is not. I told him I think he has NPD, and I am self critical and reflective enough to distinguish my issues from his and I know without a doubt that he is. Can the dynamic only work if both are self aware? I also often wonder if he actually exacerbates my symptoms. I made a post about it in the BPD forum. When I date a vanilla non narc, I get bored quickly and I miss the weird aspects of my relationship with my N. Like the fact we use the locators on our phone and he uses words like soul mate. Even though I think it’s #######4. When he is in person with me he can control me because of our D/s dynamic. Physically telling me to kneel or what not. But as we are currently long distance when I fly into a rage he has no tools and the last time was bad. Really really bad. But despite it all, despite his lies, I feel like he is the only one who understands me. Besides everyone here of course.

sorrynotsorry wrote:Thank you so much. I saw your other reply regarding being in a boring and sexless marriage and I was in one of those for 14 years with a very weak man. I would take this crazy $#%^ with my NPD any day of the week over that situation. I guess right now, since I’m currently in a discard phase, I am wondering about the fact that I am self aware but he is not. I told him I think he has NPD, and I am self critical and reflective enough to distinguish my issues from his and I know without a doubt that he is. Can the dynamic only work if both are self aware? I also often wonder if he actually exacerbates my symptoms. I made a post about it in the BPD forum. When I date a vanilla non narc, I get bored quickly and I miss the weird aspects of my relationship with my N. Like the fact we use the locators on our phone and he uses words like soul mate. Even though I think it’s #######4. When he is in person with me he can control me because of our D/s dynamic. Physically telling me to kneel or what not. But as we are currently long distance when I fly into a rage he has no tools and the last time was bad. Really really bad. But despite it all, despite his lies, I feel like he is the only one who understands me. Besides everyone here of course.

Very very eerie... it is as if you are describing my last relationship with my NPD ex-bf. I believe that most pwNPD are not self-aware nor particularly interested in being so. And particularly in the current climate with Donald Trump, identifying as a Narcissist I suspect would be difficult, however the NPD forum members here would be better suited to elaborating on the degree of self-awareness most pwNPD might have or want to have. So your bf I suspect is not unusual in that regard. But his self-awareness although it would be beneficial, is not as important as yours. I found it helpful to understand the dynamic and the behaviours. It also helped to assure me that he would be back, which he was 9 months later as yours will be too. My ex also told me from the start that we are soulmates and we have had very very similar experiences, and are both equally adventurous and experienced sexually.

And incidentally I agree whole heartedly about choosing my NPD ex-bf anyday over my ex-husband. Nons bore me to tears, not to mention they all want to fawn over me and chase me and that puts me right off. My NPD ex did that at first too.... and I was not all that interested in him for the first two months although we were dating, but I was also seeing several other men at the time. It wasn't until I raged at him the first time and he rose up and dominated the hell out of me that I took notice..... FINALLY!! This is what I was waiting for from him. Mind you the sex was fantastic from the start even at the beginning because he was very sadistic and dominant in bed.... but it took 2 months before he fully dominated me outside of that. I am an uncommonly attractive woman for my age ( I look 35 despite my 49 years) with a very retro pinup starlet look about me and a figure of the same era consequently I get an excessive amount of male attention. So much so that I take male interest for granted and most men bore me.... there has to be something more, and more importantly they have to be dominant enough to handle me and to put me in my place. If I can walk all over them, I just walk away.

So yes, he understood me and what I needed in a way alot of non-males do not and I understood and loved him inspite of all his lies and manipulations, because I know him, I see him and I see the wounded little boy inside him..... I understood the facade he wears and it matters not to me now although at one time I was flummoxed by it all..... now I would be willing to accept even his lies and cheating the same way he came back to me and accepted my destructive behaviours. I have also been discarded for the moment.... but only for the moment because he can't stay away from me, and he will be back as surely as the sun rises in the morning, this I know beyond a doubt. Push - pull, attraction - repulsion, it is all just a matter of time.

sorrynotsorry wrote: I made a post about it in the BPD forum. When I date a vanilla non narc, I get bored quickly and I miss the weird aspects of my relationship with my N. Like the fact we use the locators on our phone and he uses words like soul mate.

Hey, sorry not sorry, where’s that post at that you posted in BPD forum? I like to track my bf too

Hebi wrote:
Hey, sorry not sorry, where’s that post at that you posted in BPD forum? I like to track my bf too

I ocassionally wonder if my (NPD) ex keylogged me at some point, I wouldn't be surprised, he'd probably murder me if he read everything I wrote about him lol. Or maybe he'd be flattered since it's obvious I still think about him. I'll hopefully never know. It'd also ruin the picture of me in his head, since I completely ignore him irl.

shanzeek wrote:

I ocassionally wonder if my (NPD) ex keylogged me at some point, I wouldn't be surprised, he'd probably murder me if he read everything I wrote about him lol. Or maybe he'd be flattered since it's obvious I still think about him. I'll hopefully never know.

Ok, it sounds bad, but at some point, I had it set up where all of my bf’s texts were forwarded to my phone, I have all of his passwords, his email goes to my phone, and I can physically track his location using the find my iPhone app.

I’ve gotten better recently, so I don’t actually check much anymore, but I’m not sure if I no longer had easy access, if I would become really paranoid again or not.

Hebi wrote:
Ok, it sounds bad, but at some point, I had it set up where all of my bf’s texts were forwarded to my phone, I have all of his passwords, his email goes to my phone, and I can physically track his location using the find my iPhone app.

I’ve gotten better recently, so I don’t actually check much anymore, but I’m not sure if I no longer had easy access, if I would become really paranoid again or not.

One part of me would get angry if someone did this to me as it would feel like intrusion of privacy, another part of me kind of gets it, I'm guilty of breaking into my ex's account..I did tell him afterwards, and he was furious. But I did confirm my fears with things I found, so I can't say I regret it really.

shanzeek wrote:One part of me would get angry if someone did this to me as it would feel like intrusion of privacy, another part of me kind of gets it, I'm guilty of breaking into my ex's account..I did tell him afterwards, and he was furious. But I did confirm my fears with things I found, so I can't say I regret it really.

That’s one of the ways I justify it actually.... because I’ve been nosy in the past and found things that exes did. But my bf knows about it, and agreed to it... and he’s literally never brought it up out of anger or anything. He’s completely ok with it, unless he’s really good at hiding it.

I don’t know. I kind feel like you have to go with your gut sometimes. If someone has made themselves untrustworthy, then they can’t be mad when someone breaks their own trust to prove it