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Do empaths have empathy when it counts?

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Re: Do empaths have empathy when it counts?

Postby Aals » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:44 pm

If you are more interested about the similarities between codependency and narcissism, there is a great article in yourlovevoice.com. Just google "two little narcissist sitting in a tree".

Water seeks its own level. There is always two persons in relationship and both are responsible of how the dynamic between them develops.
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Re: Do empaths have empathy when it counts?

Postby Fool » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:24 pm

Aals wrote:
assuming everyone has an innate desire to feel superior to others and thus concluding all empaths are narcissists is pretty funny, if you actually think about it?


Yes. You are right. If you read my post again, I did not say that all of them have NPD. All I was saying is that they have this narcissistic delusion that they can change people with their love. I have changed my mind with one thing. Not all the empaths are codependent. Some are. There was actually very interesting point in the book "Rethinking Narcissism". According to authors the majority of people think they are "little better" than average person. It was unexpected(for me, at least) that this is a good thing because by thinking like that you elevate the others up and make them feel special and better about themselves too. So in moderation, it is a good thing. It will be a problem if it makes you feel extremely entitled. I base my opinion about codependents on my on my experiences with Adulth Children of Alcoholics 12-step groups. Many of the people in these groups talked about this delusion (they did not call it delusion, more like compulsive habit) in the sessions, and I have seen that in myself too.

Not all the people with strong narcissists tendencies are arrogant. Some are very shy and introverted. Not all the empaths have strong narcissists tendencies. Some of them belong to other side of spectrum, who are actually lacking healthy narcissism. Some of them belong to healthy side. (0=no narcissistic tendencies at all - 10 = full blown sociopathy). According to this book, unhealthy narcissism is an ADDICTION. Codependency is an ADDICTION. And I have first hand experience of the dark side of codependency. There was one woman in the group. She had a husband and kids. She had a crush on me, and altough I found her sexy I did not want to do anything about it because she was married. She acted like I am her possession. She was very jealous. She was blaming me that I do things (like talk to other women of the group) just to hurt her. I made it very clear that there will be nothing between us because she is married and I do not want to get involved in anything like this. I did not send mixed signals. Her excuse for her behavior: "I can not help myself because I am codependent". On other words, complete lack of accountability.

i have empathy, it's just got zero impact on my behavior. i help people because it benefits me. mutual benefit > self gratification because the potential for further reward is vastly higher, but that has nothing to do with empathy. it's nothing but a tool for understanding things beyond myself.


Again, I think having self gratification for doing good is not a bad thing. It CAN be if it makes you feel very entitled, like a saint. This is what codependency can become in its most extreme form. One thing about empathy. It does not mean compassion. It just mean that you can understand what other person is feeling. For instance, sociopaths have a lot of empathy. This makes them very dangerous because they know very well what you are feeling, they just don´t care at all. They use that information for their own good. The way how I see it is that compassion gives you the motivation to make the other person feel better and take responsibility if you hurt somebody (like we all do sometimes because we do not always know what we are doing).

i'm curious, do you believe empaths also need to feel superior to things like animals and bugs etc, or is the sense of inferiority you paint them with strictly limited to the human condition?


I do not really have opinion about this. The woman I was talking about (not the one in the group) was always very displeased when I caressed the street dogs (she did not like animals). On the other hand, I have heard some people with NPD saying that they treat their pets like royalties and that they love animals. So, I do not really know. Maybe. Maybe not.

At this point, I think narcissism occurs in spectrum (just like empathy). Too much of it and also lack of it is very unhealthy for the person and people around him/her. For instance, somebody with too little narcissism can really hurt other people who want to make him/her feel happy by rejecting their loving gestures (gifts, for example).

By the way, I strongly recommend the book "Rethinking Narcissism" for everybody who are interested about self-reflection. For me it gave a completely new perspective to narcissism, empathy and addiction. It offers a lot of hope for people with NPD who have become aware of their struggles.


thankyou, this helps me understand
still unsure what "empaths aren't really empaths" means, but i appreciate your response
"Kindly let me help before you drown" said the monkey, lifting the fish into the tree.
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Re: Do empaths have empathy when it counts?

Postby Aals » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:01 pm

thankyou, this helps me understand
still unsure what "empaths aren't really empaths" means, but i appreciate your response


Just remember that it is just my opinion. Continue searching and you will find your answers! :)

Maybe "empaths arent really empaths" means that some people think they are never real, but they are acting to get something from you, and when you need them they will abandon you. I think people with both NPD and BPD are really afraid of being abandoned, and every minor disagreement or perceived uncertainty or small mistake activates this fear. When it happens they become paranoid and start projecting their fear to other people. I guess many narcissistic people are actually very sensitive, and being abandoned and betrayed would mean death to them. I understand that fear and pain, because breakups always put me on my knees and it takes a lot of time for me to recover from them. So I do not hate and I do not want to judge anyone with NPD. However, I do not want to let them too close, because I would put my own emotional health on jeopardy. In the book "Rethinking Narcissism" there is actually some advice how to make narcissist feel more secure and slowly open up and put his guard down. It can work, but it is also possible that it won´t work.
My personal opinion is that it is a HUGE gamble and very risky. I would not take that risk without extra support like couple counceling or something like that.

EDIT: It is also possible that there is underlying demand that narcissist is expecting being taken care of just like a parent takes care of their children. This is not realistic expectation in adult relationships. The sad truth is that narcissists were once innocent children, who got mentally and spiritually raped by their abusive parents. Lack of healthy boundaries is also abuse. In some cases this damage is permanent.
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Re: Do empaths have empathy when it counts?

Postby NarcissistProof » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:17 am

Not sure if this answers your question but hope it helps...

My gf who im in no contact with right now is a narcissist to a great extend but doubt shes has NPD.

Knowing her inside out, especially her childhood and family upbringing, I saw a glimpse of her real weakness ( as opposed to the "hey feel empathy for me so I can control you using weakness") and feel shes struggling and has had zero guidance since she was a child.

To the contrary, I was brought up by a father who was majored in educational psychology so ive always been relatively very self aware and thus emotionally strong. Plus its not my first experience with a narcissist so although shaken, I wasnt exactly caught off guard; I continued the relationship cautiously and observed til I entered no contact after a triangulation attempt.

Its a bit unique because when in a professional environment she knew she was a simple person and surprisingly would accept my lead while HATING it (she had to because something was in it for her too). She knew I am strong and therefore not exactly an ideal victim. Accepting that I may be better than her in something, is what made me think she could change, especially after reading the book rethinking narcissism which I bought her a copy of.

She also NEVER lies. This gives me hope.

Im in full control of the situation now and if she breaks my no contact and reaches out after i blocked all her numbers i'll give her a copy of the book and try to help her see herself from outside of the box.

I feel mean for saying this, but I love her and would marry her if she does change given shes probably a 6 or 7 on a scale of 1 to 10. However im fully aware that theres a possibility of promising change just to keep the game going. Therefore I am pretty much detached emotionally and cant give her my all.

Basically in a position where I have to say "This is the way to go" if you want to save yourself AND your kids, and if her actions dont match her words i'll just move on. I'll feel sad for her, and for us, but i'll never feel guilty knowing what I did was right and inevitable.

Not sure if thats having empathy "When it counts", but you cant give empathy to someone you know will never change.
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Re: Do empaths have empathy when it counts?

Postby girl234 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:39 pm

If you are mistreating them.then it may seem to you like they dont care but just because you are sad and depressed does not mean it's okay to mistreat them. If she mistreats you in the same way when she is sad and ed then you will scream and her or block her. When you feel sad and depressed then you are still supposed to continue to love them anyway. And tell them.about what happened and show up on time unless it was physically impossible and eulogize inhe very very rare case when it was physically impossible and come immediately if needed and put the other person first IF their situation os worse then yours etc. Everyone else who cares about somebody or in a relationship does these things, except for narcissists. So when you tell the real truth about the actual thing that made you feel bad AND you dont mistreat them in the process or ignore physically important things like court papers (such as by yelling when they bring it up) because of feeling bad, then the empathy will always be there for you every time. And, when the empathy or other non-narcissist os depressed and feeling bd, they also do that... maybe they dont feel capable of thinking about the court papers at the moment but if court is tomorrow then they do their best and if court is not tommorrow then they nicely say that they can't figure it out. As long as you do all of these things not to mistreat anybody just lunette empathy does not mistreat you about these things when she is depressed, then in that case the empathy will always be there for holy if she is not breaking up with you.
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