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Covert Narcissism is HELL

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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby covertunsure » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:14 pm

donshone90 wrote:
covertunsure wrote: Unfortunately, we still have that survival instinct, which isn't overrideable as it is with BPD or bipolar. I also have the latter, so maybe I'll wait till I get a severe depressive episode and end this miserable life.


What does this mean? Yes i am also obsessed with body looks and body appereance. I everyday do fitnes workout and i started about 8 years ago.


In other words, I often have suicidal thoughts, about 10 times per day if not more, on an average day, although sometimes I have none. Depends on the amount of narcissistic supply I'm getting on that particular day or the amount of despondency I feel on having an incurable personality/mental disorder.

But at the end of the day, we aren't unstable or desperate enough (as borderlines are), to actually follow through on our suicidal thoughts/impulses. Narcissism alone isn't enough. Only a mood disorder, comorbid BPD thoughts, or an unusually devastating narcissistic loss can make us actually commit suicide. It takes a lot, even if we feel suicidal or miserable 80% of the time.
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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby Auxiliary11 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:10 pm

Dude I feel you on this. I just had an awful, humiliating, and contemptuous experience with this 'hell' you speak of earlier today, and multiple times before; and just like most occasions, this one was subtle.

A few days back I went to go and see my GP about organizing a blood test for my hormones -- and throughout the appointment it seemed that she was subtly deriding me and testing my medical knowledge, whilst also simultaneously comparing it to her own. At first she was friendly and whatnot, but then as the appointment went on she started to act like she was slightly superior. I asked to get my adrenaline levels checked through a test and she was like "we can't test adrenaline levels through a blood test... do you know a lot about hormones?!" with this patronizing upswing in her voice.

I went to go get my blood taken today, and the nurse, who is generally known to be quite pleasant, seemed to subtly poking fun me at one point during the test, after she asked "have you fainted during this before?" to which I replied "no, but my vision went a little bit blue"; following this she referred back to my comment in a half-joking manner. I played along with it at the time, but looking back I'm not so sure it was a joke. When I got home, I just felt so pizzed about it, and so wholly defeated.

Why does it seem like the only way to be taken seriously is to always take in a astute, excessively confident manner?!

My situation is tricky because I've have issues with mockery in the past, and so I'm also hyper-alert to it, so it's possible I was just misconstruing the comment. At the same time I also have an underactive theory of mind due to my ASD (which you also said you had OP?), meaning even though I'm still decently intelligent, I often 'miss the beat' and I'm a bit gullible; so once again, I didn't really notice it at the time,

I'm not even asking to be treat "like a God" I'm just asking to be treat with some ######6 dignity, and not -- as you say -- like a dog.

Autism variant + covert N. is indeed hell, and I don't see a way out.
self dx. pdd-nos (level 1); covert narcissism w/ avoidant traits; social phobia; inertia.

INFP; dismissive/fearful-avoidant & highly sensitive person

"Life, a sexually transmitted, terminal disease."
"you built up a world of magic, because your real life is tragic"
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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby Auxiliary11 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:07 pm

Honestly, why am I so damn affected by it anyway? I mean what's the big deal about some randomer not liking me, or something as simple as an extremely minor perceived slight? Sometimes I can use my covert method of "neutralizing them as unjust abusers" but now it seems like even that isn't viable anymore.

I didn't score "5" on the hypersensitivity scale for no reason.
self dx. pdd-nos (level 1); covert narcissism w/ avoidant traits; social phobia; inertia.

INFP; dismissive/fearful-avoidant & highly sensitive person

"Life, a sexually transmitted, terminal disease."
"you built up a world of magic, because your real life is tragic"
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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby Ladywith3cats » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:02 pm

I can definitely relate to all of this. Last week, the woman in the convenience store I usually stop in at to get gas, my snack for the day and coffee, was very rude and short with me. Maybe she was just in a bad mood or overworked or thinking about something else that made her snap, but I took it so personally and felt so offended that I have not gone back to that store. It's partly the shame (I don't want to go where I'm not liked or valued), but also there's a slight tinge of spite ("I'll show you! I won't go back into your stupid store!") Of course, that's ridiculous because I'm sure she doesn't give a damn whether I ever do or not.
Why do we CARE so much what random strangers think of us anyway? Like this really affects our lives at all? But it does because our disorder tells us it does. I hate being this way. >:(
BPD/AvPD; PTSD; Dysthymia; GAD; NPD (fragile/covert type); Seasonal Affective Disorder; Myers-Briggs INFJ (I know the rainbow colors make me look like an HPD. Deal with it).
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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby narc_magnet » Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:59 pm

katana wrote:I think the idea is when a child has a narcissistic parent and develops narcissism in most cases they can either become like the parent, or they can reject the parent's narcissism and develop their own opposing version.


This really struck a chord. I never thought about it -- why I feel like a narcissist on the inside but I tend to stay behind the scenes. I despised the way my N mom behaved -- I thought she was ridiculous in her obvious ploys for attention. Needy and childish. I refused to lower myself to the way she acted. Instead, I adopted a more intellectual stance -- a behind the scenes mastermind -- orchestrating good things but letting others shine in the limelight. Except I still need to get credit for my wonderful behind the scenes masterminding, so it's important some people know who really made it happen.

Am I a covert N?
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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby Ladywith3cats » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:56 pm

narc_magnet wrote:
This really struck a chord. I never thought about it -- why I feel like a narcissist on the inside but I tend to stay behind the scenes. I despised the way my N mom behaved -- I thought she was ridiculous in her obvious ploys for attention. Needy and childish. I refused to lower myself to the way she acted. Instead, I adopted a more intellectual stance -- a behind the scenes mastermind -- orchestrating good things but letting others shine in the limelight. Except I still need to get credit for my wonderful behind the scenes masterminding, so it's important some people know who really made it happen.

Am I a covert N?



I can't tell you if you're a covert N but if you are, then I am too, because I can say thatwhat you just described was EXACTLY the way I acted with my own grandiose, loud, grandstanding, MN mother. She's a somatic narcissist, extremely preoccupied with physical appearance and social status, both herself and everyone else, and tried to make me her mini-me. When I rejected that as a teen she decided I was no longer worthy of golden child status and I became the scapegoat. I always prided myself in how "superior" I was to her intellectually and how shallow she was and I let her know this all the time too. In a way I almost don't blame her for turning on me.
BPD/AvPD; PTSD; Dysthymia; GAD; NPD (fragile/covert type); Seasonal Affective Disorder; Myers-Briggs INFJ (I know the rainbow colors make me look like an HPD. Deal with it).
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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby Comp_Lex » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:09 am

Ladywith3cats wrote:I can definitely relate to all of this. Last week, the woman in the convenience store I usually stop in at to get gas, my snack for the day and coffee, was very rude and short with me. Maybe she was just in a bad mood or overworked or thinking about something else that made her snap, but I took it so personally and felt so offended that I have not gone back to that store. It's partly the shame (I don't want to go where I'm not liked or valued), but also there's a slight tinge of spite ("I'll show you! I won't go back into your stupid store!") Of course, that's ridiculous because I'm sure she doesn't give a damn whether I ever do or not.
Why do we CARE so much what random strangers think of us anyway? Like this really affects our lives at all? But it does because our disorder tells us it does. I hate being this way. >:(

That is your disorder. It just grew like that over the years. Narcissists are utterly dependent on other people, but at the same time that is the major weakness of the disorder. As a schizoid I can never understand why you put yourself in such a vulnerable position all the time. I would never put myself mentally in a position that would make me that open for an attack.
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Re: signs of mother son enmeshment

Postby pratyusha » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:57 pm

Narcissism when it is within family then life is even more hell. Signs of mother son enmeshment will be very difficult to figure out and as a result all suffer. If covert narcissism victim is the son then it would be very difficult get over from the clutches of his mother and in future he won't succeed to have his own family because of her.
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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby Bordopath » Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:16 am

To all these people in this thread, never give up. Whilst I'm not a covert narc (I suffer from bpd) I used to date two covert narc women and they were amongst the sweetest people I've ever dated, very fragile and insecure yet also very loving at times.
I'm drawn more to covert and vulnerable times because I feel like I can establish a better connection with them, grandiose types put me off tbh, they remind me of my grandad too much.
You guys actually have a better chance of recovery, studies show this, in a way some of you are "failed" narcissist because the grandiose self isn't fully entrenched, but this is a GOOD thing.

The only problem is the abuse and blame shifting, my ex would go from motherly love and almost patronizing me to straight up blaming me whenever something went wrong, then she would at times blame herself but in a very obscure way. Like she would say things like "I shouldn't have trusted you, that was my biggest mistake", she failed to see that it was her lack of trust that caused our fight, not the trust per se... so I guess the insight into one's own pathology varies from person to person no matter which disorder it is.
When I was in crisis mode she was always there for me though, she would immediately call an ambulance, stay by my bed and be almost the "perfect woman" but she would primarily do it when I was in a crisis mode, a mode that she partially induced by threatening me with abandonment, narcissists know how to push your buttons, I gotta give you guys credit for that.
I am a highly emotional person and easy to read, my gf liked that at first and later on she hated m for being so "whimsical" and overly emotional (classic love-hate cycle).
She was also consumed by envy, but was at least partially unaware of this, whenever I pointed this out it resulted in an argument, she also didn't take criticism very well and would come up with punishments to make me obey. I am a person that craves intimacy and needs this like air to breathe, so she would stop sleeping with me because I had been a "bad boy", at times I felt as though she was behaving like my mother rather than my significant other but underneath all that abuse and blame shifting was a deeply disturbed and anxious, a highly neurotic individual that never learnt to love herself and I still think about her every day.
We have decided to stop seeing each other for a while for we both have boundary issues and at times we ended up in bed again although we had broken up and whilst she was fine with it saying "oh this was fun", I immediately developed strong feelings again and wanted to reunite. Us borderlines can be very demanding, I'm aware of this, we are anything but easy.
I actually dislike it that narcs get all the hate and us borderlines get off relatively easily. We are no better than you, we are just disturbed in a different way and we can be just as cruel.
I'm sure you all have lot to give and varying degrees of compassion left, allow yourself to grow, allow yourself to be vulnerable in a healthy way, you are perfect the way you are but it doesn't mean you're superior to others... I like to think we're all equally worthless, I mean equally worthy of love and respect, sorry my dark humour broke out there for a second.
Funnily enough there is some overlap between bpd and vulnerable narcissism, whilst I dont think theyre the same they share some characteristics albeit for different reasons.
Both are thin-skinned, volatile, don't take criticism well, both feel victimized and left out constantly but I guess the narcs entitlement is a a little stronger and his fantasies differ from the borderlines.
I for instance look for stability and a person who accepts me and loves me, I don't care much about admiration in the usual sense nor do I want to be seen as special or unique, I'm also not envious though I can get jealous in a relationship if I'm afraid someone is going to leave me.
I also don't care about success or wealth but I've met narcs who don't care about this either, just gets to show you there's a huge grey area, it's a continuum, every narc is different and so is every borderline and unfortunately there are also quite a few individuals with comorbid npd and bpd which further complicates everything.

Sorry that I went on a tangent here, I have a mild manic episode.

To sum it up, stay strong, work on bettering yourself, you can do it, believe in yourself and give yourself the time you need in order to succeed and and don't let failure lead you astray, just keep pushing for your goals. Recovery is possible for narcs, don't listen to these idiots saying a narcissist is never going to change, ironically speaking this statement itself is quite narcissistic lol.
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Re: Covert Narcissism is HELL

Postby Philonoe » Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:25 pm

In my experience narcissism in family and enmeshment are very close.

Enmeshment through being too close Enmeshment through being too rejectful. Enmeshment through giving responsibility to the youngest for the older.

Long term enmeshment.


Better make your life your family.
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