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Help. NPD with HPD GF, Push/Pull for years

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Help. NPD with HPD GF, Push/Pull for years

Postby Midnight1 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:28 pm

I'm 26, also i'm a young doctor, i was diagnosed with NPD a few years ago, been seeing a therapist for 2 years to work on my problems and to learn to have a normal life. I'm in a relationship with an HPD woman, my age. I know she is an HPD after we went to a couple of therapy session together, before she quit saying it's not helping her.

First 2 years were also great and problematic, ups and downs. Fantastic sex life and we were in love. I know many of you might say that as an NPD, i can't love, but my therapist confirmed that i can. So it was great, but also it was a constant race for power. Who dominates who. Of course she couldn't dominate me which was quite frustrating for her. In the end of the 1st 2 years i became pretty abusive (much more in a passive way), not knowing much about myself, so we got separated. This was the 1st time i went to see a therapist and found out about my problem. I felt guilty and kept running after her for 8 months. She went back to her ex and tried with God knows how many other guys ( she says 7 but i think more ), checked back on me like 2 times, even had sex a few times, just so she could see that she still has access to me, after that ignore me again...eventually, it didn't work out with anyone else and we got back together after 8 months and moved in together.

This is were it gets tricky. Since then we are together 6-7 months then we are separated for 3-4 months. We break up either because i can't offer her the attention she needs so she looks for it somewhere else, fantasize with other guys thinking the grass is greener on the other side. I changed my strategy in the past 2 years, i stopped running after her and really tried to move on. I started working on myself, bettering my life, dating other women. Eventually she always comes back either because she sees how good i am doing or she runs out of other options. Baits me in, especially with sex and i accept her back. When we break up, even if she is the cause, she doesn't take responsability for her actions, tries to manipulate things in such a way to make me feel guilty, make me feel bad, so i leave the door open for her. She admits to what she did only when she wants back.

This year was our best year honestly. I took her to therapy, she quit again after 3 sessions saying it doesn't help her. The therapist said she doesn't speak openly about her problems, she can't work with her like this, she can't force it if she doesn't admit that she has a problem. I finished med school in June, after that the games slowly started again. Raising her voice, insulting without any serious reasons. All summer i told her peacefully that her behaviour is unacceptable and she needs to work on this, to control her emotions. Ofc she can't change and whatever i say is like talking to myself. Except the fact she is an HPD, she is a like child. Except work not doing anything productive. No hobbies. Not cooking, cleaning up after herself, not organized at all. She comes home from work, watches TV shows and plays games on her phone in her free time, totally wasting time. She wants to be independent, but she is dependent actually. Anyway, we bought a dog, we had plans for the future, i had a great relationship with her parents (very difficult family tho) and everything seemed to be great for a while. But i have a big exam coming in December, most important exam in my career so i can start working in January. I'm studing all day for 2 months now. I got irritated quickly on small stuff, felt isolated not having time for myself, critic about her routine (i expected her to help me more with household stuff)...and after fights i became passive agressive, no sex, ignoring her for 2-3 days. But kept telling her, this is just a period, it will pass, all i need is her understanding and patience. But she didn't have the attention she needs right? So at a birthday party she flirted with a guy, i think she even cheated. I found out, of course she didn't admit, even tried to make me feel guilty that i was cold to her and we can't get through stressfull periods. She provoked me, just to bring out my ugly side ( i threw her out ) and then she played victim. So we broke up 3 weeks ago. She knows she has stuff at my place, but she is not contacting me to get them, for obvious reasons.

My therapist said that she will come back again anyway. I insisted that i'm tired of these games and i want to move on. She said that i'm also a difficult person to live with and after all, we love each other, but she needs therapy. But i'm so tired of these cycles.

Is it normal for an HPD woman to do this? Do you think she loves me, or just using me? Do you think she could change? Any suggestions, tip, ideas, are most welcome.
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Re: Help. NPD with HPD GF, Push/Pull for years

Postby xdude » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:21 pm

Hey man,

Finding a therapist who specializes in cluster B types is probably going to be hard to do, and more so when it comes to HPD.

I want to throw a thought out, just something to ponder? I hope it is not too honest, but maybe it will help. If I am way off base, all good too.

For both NPD and HPD, approval from others is a means to (temporarily) band-aid over self-esteem wounds. There are many ways to get approval, what we do, what we accomplish, how we look, how much stuff we own, etc., but perhaps no approval runs as deep as sexual desirability. When it comes to this, she likely has the upper hand, females are more sexually sought than males (a generality, but generalities don't make it false).

The thing about cluster B types is once the honeymoon phase is over, eventually they reach a point of ego battles. Who is more right? Who is more desirable? And the games that follow (yes including jealousy games) bubbles to the surface.

I have more I could write here, but will stop for now, to ask, does any of what I wrote so far resonate with you?
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Re: Help. NPD with HPD GF, Push/Pull for years

Postby Seili » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:37 pm

Midnight1 wrote: I'm studing all day for 2 months now. I got irritated quickly on small stuff, felt isolated not having time for myself, critic about her routine (i expected her to help me more with household stuff)...and after fights i became passive agressive, no sex, ignoring her for 2-3 days. But kept telling her, this is just a period, it will pass, all i need is her understanding and patience. But she didn't have the attention she needs right? So at a birthday party she flirted with a guy, i think she even cheated.

I think you should be able to stay more objective and impartial here. Do you ever apologize for being irritated?

You could be making her feel like she can never be enough. That's when people might as well give up.
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Re: Help. NPD with HPD GF, Push/Pull for years

Postby Midnight1 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:49 pm

Seili wrote:I think you should be able to stay more objective and impartial here. Do you ever apologize for being irritated?

You could be making her feel like she can never be enough. That's when people might as well give up.


I do apologize, i do realize if i do something wrong. I told her that the way i am in this period has nothing to do with her/my feelings for her. I'm just stressed because i have lot going on. Which i know sounds weird for an NPD but i've learned how to act like a normal person. I try to handle issues in a civilized manner with communication...if i get aggressive it means my limits have been pushed way too far. We all have boundaries

Beside the fact she is an HPD she has also avoidant attachment disorder and i think also dependent. I think this is also the reason why she can't get over and always comes back. I tried to compensate by not telling her i love her, trying to be more avoidant, but doing positive things with actions not words. Which was the right thing to do. If i get too involved, needy (i know from our past) she will use it against me and push me away. She will loose interest, she will take me for granted, start fantasizing with others...etc..

@xdude

I know exactly what you mean. If it comes to sex, she doesn't really have the upper hand. I've had better sex with other woman, i get approached by other woman a lot which makes her jelous. For us, Cluster B's it's pretty hard to have a relationship with normal people, they are boring, not interesting, that's true. NPD's with HPD's are especially attracted to each other that's why i really tried to make it work. But she doesn't want to stick to therapy in the honey moon phase, so eventually it won't work after...no matter what i do...she becomes a whole different person. In the honey moon phase "i want kids with you, family, plans", when we break up (even if she is the cause) "we are not compatible, it doesn't work" ...BS

I told her every time we broke up in the past 2 years "think about this, lets get out of this cycle and do things differently this time, you will want back anyway"...she never listens. Classic HPD, sure about what they want and think in the moment even if that changes in the future. She doesn't care if we destroy everything we built up till that moment and we will look like idiots again in the public eye. All she cares about is that i'm seen as the bad guy and she as the innocent one (when in fact she cheats). While we are separated, mind games start of course. And i'm bored. Today, her best friend texted me that something that belongs to her is in my car. Of course my ex wants to find out information about me through her. They set this up. She is posting stories with our dog, just to get a reaction from me. Obviously won't happen. She actually thinks she can outplay me. I can see every manipulation/mind game move from a mile away.

I really consider moving on for good this time and not accept her back again. Which i know will be hard. That honey moon period with her is like my own personal brand of heroin. But apparently, it never ends well...
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Re: Help. NPD with HPD GF, Push/Pull for years

Postby xdude » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:04 pm

Midnight1 wrote:...For us, Cluster B's it's pretty hard to have a relationship with normal people, they are boring, not interesting, that's true. NPD's with HPD's are especially attracted to each other that's why i really tried to make it work. ...


True ;) It is likely to always end up with being at each other's throats in the long run, but truthful insight for sure.
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Re: Help. NPD with HPD GF, Push/Pull for years

Postby Seili » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:07 pm

Midnight1 wrote:just to get a reaction from me. Obviously won't happen. She actually thinks she can outplay me. I can see every manipulation/mind game move from a mile away.

You really need to wake up from this everything is a game mindset.
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Re: Help. NPD with HPD GF, Push/Pull for years

Postby Midnight1 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:45 pm

Seili wrote:You really need to wake up from this everything is a game mindset.


Well, i don't know about other Cluster B relationships. But i can confirm from my experience that in a NPD HPD couple, except the honey moon phase, everything is a game. Everything you post, do...you think about how will the other person react, let's test him/her, let's play...let's show how good i am doing, that i don't need him/her in my life...

Honey moon -> Games for power/control -> Break up (also a game, who's the guilty one, who won, let's put the blame on the other person, i'm innocent, i don't accept connability for my actions) -> Competition (i'm gonna show you i don't need you/i'm doing better without you/or not show anything at all to make you curious) -> You start to forget the bad things and you start really missing and needing your drug -> Bait you in/Rekindling (mask on, i'm gonna change, i'm a different person now, classic HPD etc) -> Reconciliation -> Honey moon

This is the pattern from my point of view. From her point of view maybe she really just tries to move on. But she can't. Normally after such a relationship you need a really long time alone to heal. Which she can't do. Rebounds don't work out because she is avoidant and she still has feelings for me. She is HPD and also dependent so every time a few months have passed, she thinks i moved on, or i have someone else. Of course she can't let anyone else deserve my attention, have her own drug. So she bends backwards to turn me around no matter what.

The most f*cked up thing about all this, is that i see clearly the pattern and there's not much i can do about it. I don't even know how to tell her that she needs therapy. I can't force her. Her parents told her that she is perfectly okay, she just needs the right guy...but they don't know about her issues. She is influenced easily...thinking she is ok like this, why would she need therapy right?

Should i try to move on for good?

This is really f*cked up.
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Re: Help. NPD with HPD GF, Push/Pull for years

Postby Seili » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:55 pm

Well I don't know, sounds like a lot of pressure and stress to me.

And a lot of blaming her. She might not want that, or even think about things the same way. You can't look at her, an unique person, through any general definition or diagnosis.
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Re: Help. NPD with HPD GF, Push/Pull for years

Postby Midnight1 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:18 pm

She did a personality disorder test and she was diagnosed with these. The therapist told her clearly she needs therapy.

I really did everything my therapist adviced me to do. I did everything i could to improve myself and keep the NPD beast locked up. I accepted her back every time because i understand her disorders and her situation, that is not her fault that she is like this. But you are right, if she doesn't want to work on herself by her own initiative there is nothing i can do.

And blaming? How would you feel after getting through so much? After trusting the same person, over and over again and getting betrayed over and over again. When one day they tell you they see you as the father of their children, the next day they cheat and run off without taking any responsability for their actions, take your dog, things that belong to you, lie around to people that they didn't do anything and it's your fault. Wouldn't you blame?
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Re: Help. NPD with HPD GF, Push/Pull for years

Postby realityhere » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:33 pm

Some members in the NPD forum, which is for those dxx'd NPD or believe they have the disorder, have described this push/pull of a disordered relationship as an 'addiction' of sorts indeed. The lovebombing phase is what provides the "high" and sense of well-being that a drug sometimes does. But like with any addiction, the drug has its downside, the downspiral. You recognize the relationship's pattern quite well and acknowledge your role in it.

As you're already under a lot of stress nearing the finish line of your med education, it may not be a bad idea to take a break from the relationship and concentrate on that exam. With that test out of the way, you can then re-examine the relationship. You can ask yourself "What will this relationship be like in 5 years' time? in 10 years' time? etc." Looking at the relationship in future tense may re-set what you really want in a partner and enable you to move on.

If she is unwilling to undergo therapy, she is likely not going to change. It's not your fault that she is the way she is, she has likely been this way before the two of you met. And her lifestyle choices will continue as-is, complete with games and the blaming of others for her choices.
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