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Is it really possible to fully heal/recover with alters stil

Postby ethanthealien » Sun Nov 27, 2022 5:43 pm

Is it really possible to fully heal and recover from your trauma and whatnot, but still exist with your alter(s)? I know that a lot of people with DID/OSDD want to achieve "functional multiplicity" and exist alongside some of their other alters, and I have no doubt that it's possible (obviously) to achieve that level of Existing as yourselves. But is it really possible to fully, fully heal and recover from your trauma, but still co-exist with other alters? I mean, the whole point alters exist is because of trauma? The whole reason they stay separate is because of unintegrated material, isn't it? Is it possible to fully integrate trauma material, but not integrate non-traumatic material? My friend has said that it is, but I still wonder, is it really possible to achieve that functional multiplicity where you are fully "healed" from your trauma?

-- Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:44 pm --

To add to this as well, if anyone has any knowledge of, like. Studies done on this sort of thing, or any articles, or any info at all, I'd really appreciate it.
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Re: Is it really possible to fully heal/recover with alters stil

Postby ViTheta » Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:20 pm

From what I've been told, read, and researched, the goal is to reach functional multiplicity. Many researchers feel that fusion may not actually be always in the best interest of a given system.

The thing is, not all alters in all systems exist because of trauma. Of our system, half of us exist due to trauma but the rest exist either for functionality in the outside world or in the inside world. Queen holds no trauma, but she exists because she is needed to regulate the internal world's interactions with the outer world. Agnes exists to cook (and is one of three witches in the system). Some of our system hold trauma, but existed before the trauma came about. Beth holds trauma, but existed long before the trauma happened.

But our baseline is as an autistic system, so some of us just exist because we are needed to function.

I think the end goal depends on what your system wants. Right now, Pippa and I (Vi) could conceivably fuse, but don't want to. I suspect that, for us, there is advantages to not fusing as it allows us to function a little further if one of us gets overwhelmed. Without knowing it, Pippa came out and talked to our fourth T and dealt with the trauma she felt. She is still overwhelmed and triggered at times, but is pretty much healed. Her bad memories are available to those who are ready. We just don't like the idea of fusing because it would mean a loss of identity.

I know TheTriForce has discussed not wanting to fuse as well.

I don't know if any of this helps. It might just be me babbling on. As a system, we're working towards functional multiplicity. But I would say that it is possible to achieve functional multiplliticy and heal because, if it wasn't, then we wouldn't see it become more of the standard for therapy.

Take care,
Vi
Autistic, DID, trans
Alters: Violette, Agatha, Agnes, Anathema, Angel, Beth, Bonnie, Bri, Gia, Keira, Leila, Lilith, Marcie, Octavia, Pippa, Queen, Selene, Val, Veronica
Threads https://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic221125.html https://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic221263.html
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Re: Is it really possible to fully heal/recover with alters stil

Postby ethanthealien » Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:40 pm

That helps a lot and it makes complete sense!
I can feel Sprite (another alter) blending with me as I'm typing this because this makes him really happy, I can feel his relief/happiness. He has a strong want to be, like, his own "person" in a way, and we/I always worry about what that means, and if that would really be possible because of the worry that it means we won't really fully heal from our trauma. So reading what you said feels like a huge relief.

In general, I'm not yet sure how many might feel this way since I don't really know many of us yet, but I know some others also have this desire.
And maybe it sounds silly or stupid, but I also worried about, like, if I developed a stronger bond with others, like the same way a lot of people with DID/OSDD seem to talk about with their alters. I worry that that makes me sound really fake or something.
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Re: Is it really possible to fully heal/recover with alters stil

Postby ViTheta » Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:48 pm

I think a lot of us worry about people thinking we are faking, and there are Bad People who will say awful things too. For us, we worry that because some of us are aware of what goes on day-to-day people might think we're faking or we start getting our language mixed up because we're masking some places but not others.

I'm glad that you and Sprite feel relief at this.

This week, Agnes, Pippa, Gia and Leila have all come to the surface and either co-fronted, fronted or blended. I think that, without them, I wouldn't be able to function.

Take care,
Vi
Autistic, DID, trans
Alters: Violette, Agatha, Agnes, Anathema, Angel, Beth, Bonnie, Bri, Gia, Keira, Leila, Lilith, Marcie, Octavia, Pippa, Queen, Selene, Val, Veronica
Threads https://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic221125.html https://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic221263.html
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Re: Is it really possible to fully heal/recover with alters stil

Postby TheTriForce » Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:07 pm

ViTheta wrote:
I know TheTriForce has discussed not wanting to fuse as well.



Some of us do not wish to, how we perceive our system tends to depend on who it is fronting and if its more than one with the same opinion eg Kit and Bobby often co-host/temporary blend together and neither of them wish to fuse with others or risk losing the inner world and changelings. They see us all as very separate and as totally diffferent people sharing one body. Being the most autistic in the system, they both pick upon every minute detail as a big difference between each host.

Some 'social masks hosts' are not as autistic behaviour wise and can see everyone inside as 'past versions of me' except for Juno who is seen as the actual reincarnated spirit of our mother. She is a 'spirit guardian' and stays in that form, so do SG and Jody. Other changelings frequently change appearance and form (sometimes presenting as animals or mythical creatures and sometimes human to play with the littles in the inner world). These are not seen as 'past me's either by anyone.

Only the ones taking human form are able to blend with a human 'past me' host to co-host, but can be whatever they want on the inside. Because 'Bobby' is seen as the original child and creator of the changeling by our system I doubt we will all ever fuse completely regardless of whether past PTSD has been treated or cured. Essentially they will always be autistic so consequently all of us will always hold those anxieties just dealing with daily life.

For a non-autistic DID person where the trauma is directly related to one (or a couple of) specific incident(s) in one part of their life, then therapy may help the parts to achieve fusion fully, if they are no longer in a situation where they are constantly re-traumatised???
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Re: Is it really possible to fully heal/recover with alters stil

Postby Dwelt » Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:06 pm

Technically, right now, I don't qualify for a DID/pDID/OSDD diagnosis anymore. My level of dissociation and post-traumatic symptoms are so low, my psych told me I couldn't even be diagnosed with DP/DR. I still have one set of traumas unresolved we're working on, but they are so specific, they don't have an impact on my daily life and functioning. I still have some bits here and there that need to be worked on and integrated, but with the resources and skills we have now, it takes a lot of things piling up before it starts interfering with our functioning.

I used to have +20 parts, divided into ~15 alters. Right now, we have 3 alters left. All of our parts are still here : some have integrated to the point we don't feel them as separate at all anymore ; some are still a bit separate, but more like a "side/state" of the alter they have integrated into, without dissociation and a "not me" feeling ; some are still integrating and can occasionally give the "not me" feeling to the alter they are integrating with (when we're tired, or stressed, and our brain have more issue to maintain our level of integration - even without traumas, thanks to ADHD and other physical issues, integrating things isn't easy for our brain...).

Out of the three alters, only one is still here because of the set of traumas we still need to work on. He's pretty much an EP, and he will probably integrate with one of the other two once his traumas will be healed.

The last two are here because they hold very different behaviors, one for the daily normal life, the other one to manage the challenging times so they don't create new trauma. Those two don't behave like ANP and EP. They are grounded in the present, and are very able to adapt their behaviors.

There's no amnesia between us. We all have access to our memories, feelings, etc. without a "not me" feeling. The only alter that doesn't have full access to what the others hold + who gives a strong "not me" feeling when he interacts with the others is the one still holding traumas. The other two don't feel that separate. They experience themselves more like the two end of a spectrum. Our sense of self doesn't switch, it slides, like a sliding cursor. Usually, it's kind of the middle, but it can slide to one side or another depending on what's needed.

The last two don't plan to merge at all. We really don't want to. We like the way we are right now, as a "spectrum", and we kind of have a strong attachment to each other. Since the very beginning, we knew/hoped we would be the two "remaining" alters. When our system suddenly started to integrate more and more, to the point the process went out of our hands as our brain just went with the flow, we feared we would merge without having anything to say about it - but until now, it didn't happen. We will have to see if we will still be working that way once we would be fully, totally healed, but we have strong hope it will be the case.

So, I guess it's possible to heal and still have multiple separate senses of identity. However, I would say "healed DID/functional multiplicity" doesn't work the same way as actual DID. I can feel the difference between how we worked two years ago, with dissociation, amnesia and struggles, and how we work now, in a fluid and cohesive way.
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Re: Is it really possible to fully heal/recover with alters stil

Postby TheTriForce » Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:31 pm

Dwelt wrote:Technically, right now, I don't qualify for a DID/pDID/OSDD diagnosis anymore..



What is the difference between partial DID and full DID and OSDD?

If some of us can see some others as 'past versions of me' does that mean that those one's have integrated?

What if one see's another as a 'past me' but that one doesn't see the other as a version of them?
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Re: Is it really possible to fully heal/recover with alters stil

Postby Dwelt » Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:44 pm

TheTriForce wrote:What is the difference between partial DID and full DID and OSDD?


DID is a diagnosis existing in both DSM-V-TR and ICD-11 (the latest version of both manuals).
OSDD is strictly a DSM-V-TR diagnosis.
Partial DID is strictly an ICD-11 diagnosis.

OSDD and pDID can look similar, but they have actually subtle differences in their criteria - which means that DSM-V-TR DID and ICD-11 DID also have differences.

In the DSM-V, OSDD-1 can be diagnosed if the criteria of DID aren't fully met. There's no in depth explanation about what it can look like, just very quick examples, like the sense of self no being fully dissociated and/or the lack of amnesia. The amnesia itself isn't really clearly defined.

For unclear presentations, it leaves the diagnosis up to the interpretation of the clinician. This means, someone with amnesia for their past, but not often in their daily life, and highly differentiated alters could be diagnosed with either DID or OSDD.

In the ICD-11, partial DID can be diagnosed if the criteria of DID aren't fully met too, but there's explanation about how it can impact the presentation and inner organization of the person. To put it simply, in the ICD-11, someone with pDID usually will have one alter in charge of a lot of the daily life, and other alters with a lesser (or no direct) impact on the daily life. Amnesia will not have a strong impact on the daily life and will be more of an "occasional" thing, more often related to high emotional levels rather than switching between alters (which means being co-conscious in pDID is a common thing)

DID in the ICD-11, on the other hand, will be diagnosed only for people with recurring amnesia through their daily life, often related to switches between alters (which means co-conscious in DID is possible, but doesn't happen as often as in pDID). There will be multiple alters taking care of various aspect of the daily life and having a direct impact on it.

The ICD-11 is really echoing the theory of structural dissociation, with pDID being close to secondary structural dissociation and DID being close to tertiary structural dissociation.

And at the end of the day, for unclear presentation, the "defining" criteria is considered to be the amnesia. If it's really invasive in a lot of aspects of the daily life, linked to switches, it's DID ; if it's occasional in the daily life, more linked to intense emotional levels rather than switches, it's pDID. This means, someone with amnesia for their past, but not often in their daily life, and highly differentiated alters will be diagnosed solely with pDID.

In french-speaking countries of Europe, clinicians working in the field of trauma and dissociation are almost all using the ICD-11 now, as it is considered to be clearer than the DSM + the fact that people can be "high functioning" with DID or pDID is clearly considered and part of the criteria + it makes partial presentation of DID actually a part of DID, instead of being a subtype in an "other/not specified" category.


TheTriForce wrote:If some of us can see some others as 'past versions of me' does that mean that those one's have integrated?
What if one see's another as a 'past me' but that one doesn't see the other as a version of them?


It will be hard to answer, since I've seen people describing the feeling of integration between two alters and how they work once fully integrated in a lot of different ways - it depends on why the alters were here in the first place, how the system works, how they interpreted what happened between their alters, etc.

But If the "past version of me" feeling isn't reciprocated, then there's a lack of integration somewhere. Full integration of two parts means there's no "not me" feeling anymore in front of the memories, behaviors, feelings, etc. between the two.
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Re: Is it really possible to fully heal/recover with alters stil

Postby ViTheta » Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:32 pm

Dwelt wrote:
TheTriForce wrote:For unclear presentations, it leaves the diagnosis up to the interpretation of the clinician. This means, someone with amnesia for their past, but not often in their daily life, and highly differentiated alters could be diagnosed with either DID or OSDD.


This part I find interesting. With us, we have a 'hand off' time. It's like, if I switch out with Pippa or Octavia or the like, they remember what happened leading up to the switch but that fades over time. Taking this in reverse, Pippa and I switched out on Wednesday of last week. I have vague flashes of what happened that day, but nothing clear. The longer she is out the less I remember or recall. So, I'm not sure if that qualifies as amnesia or not.

Meanwhile, I have huge gaps in my past that I have to 'negotiate' to remember and sometimes get told 'you can't access that memory'.

Intellectually we know that we're one person, but at the same time there's a sense of disconnect between different alters.

Vi
Autistic, DID, trans
Alters: Violette, Agatha, Agnes, Anathema, Angel, Beth, Bonnie, Bri, Gia, Keira, Leila, Lilith, Marcie, Octavia, Pippa, Queen, Selene, Val, Veronica
Threads https://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic221125.html https://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic221263.html
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Re: Is it really possible to fully heal/recover with alters stil

Postby TheTriForce » Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:47 pm

ViTheta wrote:
Intellectually we know that we're one person, but at the same time there's a sense of disconnect between different alters.

Vi


you see 'I" also know that, I also believe Sioux and Yuna understand this too. We can also see Bobby and Little Susie as 'me as a child' ...however when Bobby is near the front or hosting the feeling is the 'social mask' hosts are NOT THEM. (They see me- 'Jay' as a 'social mask' but sees Kit as a 'version of them'). Kit sees Bobby as 'me as a child' but LS as Bobby's 'child social mask host'.

so maybe we have partial integration between the 'social mask hosts'? and partial between Bobby & Kit? ...but not yet throughout the entire system? The changelings and spirit guardians are seen as their own seperate category. They can't control the body alone but can co-host. They are spirit entities with an understanding no-one else (in the outside world) could see them and no human hosts sees them as 'past me' or 'version of me'. Maybe they were why Kit was researching Maladaptive Daydreaming originally when they found this board? ..could we have both and the DID and MD be entwined with the Autism?
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