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Grem & Co Journey Thread

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Grem & Co Journey Thread

Postby gremandco » Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:34 pm

i had a thing typed up and then i left the page and it deleted everything, so that’s cool.

anyways i wanted to leave a journey thread here. we have a journal blog but this is different.

we’ve been biking a lot recently, to get the freedom of going places back. it’s hard because we aren’t physically active and have asthma, but we’re getting there. it feels good to go places because our mom won’t let us learn to drive or get a job, so this is the next best thing.

i specifically have also been reading the discontinued newsletter for people with DID, “many voices”, and it’s really good. i love reading what’s in there. we read it as a system, and it’s inspired us to do something similar because the DID community in places like twitter is so full of infighting and anti-recovery stances like “integration is bad”, which is such a bizarrely misinformed stance but i see it all the time. since “many voices” is discontinued, we decided to make our own newsletter-thing called “the spare parts dissociative multiplicity newsletter”. we haven’t finished the first issue yet, but if anyone wants us to post it here then we can. it’s free and functions with submissions from people reading it. we have over 10 pages done so far and we’re really excited about posting it.

i’ve also been listening to a music artist with OSDD1b. she’s nat puff, a trans music artist with OSDD1b that goes by the name “left at london”. her debut album is called “T.I.A.P.F.Y.H.” that really speaks to me as someone with DID. her song “pills and good advice” really highlights this with some lyrics.

“i spend the day existing, you spend it unaware”

“don’t cry for me, for i’ve found peace in the madness”

“but when i close my eyes, you’re lookin quite like my mirror”

the entire intro to the song even speaks about trauma, and it reminds me of our home life:

“On my first day out, my familiar town
Felt the same as in my dreams
Crying in my sleep, when the sun came down
Thinking “I am cured, it seems,” but
I don't know my name at all
But what else is new
Should I show my pain at all?
If you only knew
You could try to help
Care is imprecise
All that I have left
Pills and good advice”

the whole album is really good, but “pills and good advice” really stands out to me. if anyone listens to it, here is a kind of a trigger warning at the very end of the last song, where there is someone yelling, like on a voicemail, “i lived b*tch! okay that’s all bye” and it might be distressing to some people.

i can’t stop listening to the whole album though, it kind of gives me what i’m calling “secret emotions” that are just really hard to describe and i don’t want to try again because i’m bad at feelings.

i’m just really glad to get an album from a music artist with OSDD1b, especially one with music that speaks so clearly about her experiences with it. i wish there was more music about DID and OSDD1 but i can’t find much anywhere. we have an interest in making music but i don’t think we’re very good at it. at least not by ourselves, and because we don’t know many people in real life it would be really difficult to make music alone.

and our sister is at it again calling us/me a ‘disgusting pig’ for our menstrual cycle. ugh. this would be a good place to end the beginning of the thread.

that’s all for now.

-kat
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Re: Grem & Co Journey Thread - starting over…

Postby gremandco » Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:02 pm

recently, we’ve realized just how detrimental to our system’s recovery and mental health being in certain parts of the system community have been for us.

i’ll have to admit that we spent our time in the wrong places in the beginning. places that over exaggerated symptoms of DID, the separateness of alters, and people that glorified having introjects of fictional characters. it severely skewed our ideas of what systems are supposed to be like, and it wasn’t until we started talking to/listening to older people with DID and the experiences of people with DID that have been in recovery/therapy/etc for a lot longer than we have that we realized just how bad it was.

we’ve realized that there are probably a ton of alters that we thought we had that don’t actually exist, ones that we’ve logged in our system lists but they aren’t there because they aren’t real. there are only a certain amount of alters that we know 100% are real, and that number is around 10, less than 20. it’s anxiety inducing to realize this, that we could be severely wrong about our system, all because we ran with extremely misinformed people, but it’s going to be better for us in the long run to realize this now, internalize it and work on it.

the most that we know about our system is that we are still very likely polyfragmented in spite of this. i don’t doubt that a lot of the confusion around our system and who’s actually in it is because of fragments. we just don’t know who exists and who doesn’t anymore, so we’re going to work very hard on documenting alters accurately now. we jumped the gun a lot to document alters in the early days, leading to us just documenting new feelings and fragments we were already aware of as new alters every time they fronted.

i guess that’s the consequence of having to do everything by ourselves, with very little to no help to really figure out what’s what. i hate to say it, but the system communities in many other places are so toxic and misinformed. i’m glad we’re out of those spaces and onto our real recovery now though. this will be so much better for us in the long run.

-i don’t really know who’s fronting right now, been like this all morning, ugh
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Re: Grem & Co Journey Thread - starting over…

Postby ArbreMonde » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:30 am

gremandco wrote:it severely skewed our ideas of what systems are supposed to be like, and it wasn’t until we started talking to/listening to older people with DID and the experiences of people with DID that have been in recovery/therapy/etc for a lot longer than we have that we realized just how bad it was.


We feel the same regarding a lot of identity-related communities. The otherkin/therian sphere does all it can to separate itself from the dissociative spectrum, focuses a lot on spirituality things and on experiencing the non-human side/s of the identity. Though it is an interesting circle for introspection-related questions, it can be detrimental mental health wise since there is a lot of denial about the trauma-related and dissociation-related mechanisms underneath.

There is a lot of beliefs that therapy is aimed at "making the identity fluctuations disappear" or that therapists will lock people in hospitals or make the voices in their heads disappear or force them to abandon all their spiritual beliefs so this is detrimental to the mental health too because it tends to keep people outside of therapy.

One can both keep the belief in past lives AND realize that the "past life memories" echo the traumas from the present life, giving additional cues to what a person needs to heal right here and now.

The misunderstanding regarding what a fictive introject is, has been toxic for us too. Most of our system is composed of fictive introjections and it turns out, being the most accurate copy of the original media is completely NOT what helps on the long run. The original copy-paste is interesting to understand but it is merely a starting point to become a unique individual/alter. It does not invalidate the fictive origin, rather it makes things even more beautiful in my opinion because it means we are not stuck in a given state of being.

gremandco wrote:we’ve realized that there are probably a ton of alters that we thought we had that don’t actually exist, ones that we’ve logged in our system lists but they aren’t there because they aren’t real.


It is always interesting to "weed out" between, alters that are fully-formed, identity fluctuations that are temporarily (the mirror neurones can be quite active sometimes), as well as the "non player characters" which are part of the Innerworld. Understanding how all of this functions for you really helps finding what you need in therapy. It also helps stabilizing the system, from my experience.

gremandco wrote:it’s anxiety inducing to realize this, that we could be severely wrong about our system, all because we ran with extremely misinformed people, but it’s going to be better for us in the long run to realize this now, internalize it and work on it.


I understand the feel. I can also tell you, that it means you are able to get better, find what really helps you. Stepping away from people who do not help you on your path to recovery is a very strong boundary-setting protection mechanism. You can be proud of it.

gremandco wrote:we just don’t know who exists and who doesn’t anymore, so we’re going to work very hard on documenting alters accurately now.


Good luck. The inner structure can evolve quite a lot so you might need to keep updating the document. It is never a waste though since it brings self-understanding.

gremandco wrote:i hate to say it, but the system communities in many other places are so toxic and misinformed.


I have seen this too and it is sad. There are so many misunderstandings regarding mental health, so much fear due to the societies' psychophobia, so much stigma... If you add to the mix the fact of being unanchored in the here and now, as well as the positive scheiderian symptoms, you can end up with quite the toxic environment, just from a mix of fear and lack of information.

gremandco wrote:i’m glad we’re out of those spaces and onto our real recovery now though. this will be so much better for us in the long run.


I am happy for you too. It is such a relief to find the right place giving the right, useful advices.
__
David.
Key: ♂ he/him | ♀ she/her | ɸ they/them

Social: Zamiel ɸ (complex fusion) or Daniel ♂ɸ (Zamiel + David)
Self-care: David ♂
Managers: The Mirror ♂ (inner self-helper) - Isaïa ♂ ("trauma-sitter") - Theia ♀ (gatekeeper)
Trauma holders: Pride|Wrath ♂ - Lust ♀ - Reyna ♀ - Ulysses ɸ

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Re: Grem & Co Journey Thread - starting over…

Postby gremandco » Mon Oct 11, 2021 5:41 pm

David@ArbreMonde wrote:We feel the same regarding a lot of identity-related communities. The otherkin/therian sphere does all it can to separate itself from the dissociative spectrum, focuses a lot on spirituality things and on experiencing the non-human side/s of the identity. Though it is an interesting circle for introspection-related questions, it can be detrimental mental health wise since there is a lot of denial about the trauma-related and dissociation-related mechanisms underneath.

There is a lot of beliefs that therapy is aimed at "making the identity fluctuations disappear" or that therapists will lock people in hospitals or make the voices in their heads disappear or force them to abandon all their spiritual beliefs so this is detrimental to the mental health too because it tends to keep people outside of therapy.

One can both keep the belief in past lives AND realize that the "past life memories" echo the traumas from the present life, giving additional cues to what a person needs to heal right here and now.

The misunderstanding regarding what a fictive introject is, has been toxic for us too. Most of our system is composed of fictive introjections and it turns out, being the most accurate copy of the original media is completely NOT what helps on the long run. The original copy-paste is interesting to understand but it is merely a starting point to become a unique individual/alter. It does not invalidate the fictive origin, rather it makes things even more beautiful in my opinion because it means we are not stuck in a given state of being.


sorry for the weird point of view in this response, kat and grem are co-fronting right now.

yeah, our understanding of fictive introjects was massively misinformed. i’m of the strong belief that the subconscious influences everything about the system, and our subconscious beliefs about introjects have more than likely stunted the growth of our introjects for so long. there have only been a few that have actually managed to grow past their source materials because of this, and even then, one of them, kat/me, isn’t even a full fictional introject, but instead is mostly an introject of our stepfather/a fragment from childhood from when we were living with our stepfather, that merely took on the appearance of a fictional character from a piece of media we’ve watched this year that lived a similar life to ours, which is probably a large reason as to why he’s managed to grow past that source material so easily. for the others, it’s taken several months to years.

even now, i (kat), struggle with the fact that i’m not really like my source at all, save for the similar traumas and anger issues. it feels really … weird and almost makes me feel like i’m almost ‘faking’ or something sometimes because i’m not 100% like that source that i’m not even 100% introjected from. i’d say i’m more like our stepdad than the character i look like, but that just makes me a bit uncomfortable, because he’s kind of a piece of #### and i hate him.

and yeah, so many people fearmonger therapy and say that fusion is ‘murder’ or that all therapists want to make your alters go away when thats not at all true if they’re actually experienced with treating DID and keep up to date on the current research. the ISSTD (international society for the study of trauma and dissociation) treatment guidelines for DID say directly not to force fusion and to treat alters equally, so if the so-called professional actually understands DID, then they won’t force you into these things.

because of a lot of this misinformation, we’ve taken to leaving certain places that spread this misinformation and stay in communities more grounded in the reality of DID, DID research and therapy, and it’s been really good for us. we also have our own spaces online where we try to spread the most accurate information on DID possible, as well as even our own space criticizing the community, though it doesn’t have as many followers because no one wants to listen to someone complain about why the community sucks and what we can do instead to make it not suck. but that doesn’t really stop us from trying because then at least we know that someone is unhappy with what’s going on and wants to change it.

yeah, the DID community sucks and is weird these days but i’m glad we’ve managed to find our own spaces that are actually good for us and our recovery.

-kat & grem
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Re: Grem & Co Journey Thread

Postby ArbreMonde » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:34 am

You are wise in your behaviors trying to make things better. "Be the change you want to see in the world" after all.

I totally understand the issues and stress surrounding the "I am not like I am supposed to be according to the source material". I wonder how much it can be tied to the childhood tendency of trying to "be what the parents want me to be" because it is scary to have no guideline to follow - and it is rare that the adults around are able to make a child understand that the child is the one who is in charge of who they want to be, and it's completely okay not to know at first and to just enjoy life and try out things untill it "clicks" and the "right path" is found.
__
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Key: ♂ he/him | ♀ she/her | ɸ they/them

Social: Zamiel ɸ (complex fusion) or Daniel ♂ɸ (Zamiel + David)
Self-care: David ♂
Managers: The Mirror ♂ (inner self-helper) - Isaïa ♂ ("trauma-sitter") - Theia ♀ (gatekeeper)
Trauma holders: Pride|Wrath ♂ - Lust ♀ - Reyna ♀ - Ulysses ɸ

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Re: Grem & Co Journey Thread

Postby gremandco » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:52 am

David@ArbreMonde wrote:You are wise in your behaviors trying to make things better. "Be the change you want to see in the world" after all.

I totally understand the issues and stress surrounding the "I am not like I am supposed to be according to the source material". I wonder how much it can be tied to the childhood tendency of trying to "be what the parents want me to be" because it is scary to have no guideline to follow - and it is rare that the adults around are able to make a child understand that the child is the one who is in charge of who they want to be, and it's completely okay not to know at first and to just enjoy life and try out things untill it "clicks" and the "right path" is found.
__
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oh yeah, looking back on it our mom really didn’t let us be who we wanted to be and that became especially clear around age 11 when we came out to her as queer and she ended up using that as a weapon against our transphobic/homophobic stepfather during an argument they were having. in public. all while refusing to accept us as transgender but happily exploiting our queerness for points in other people’s eyes. ugh.

that, among other things coming with her desire to see me/us as extensions of herself and not our own people, it definitely makes sense that an introject’s desire to be like their source material could very well be correlated with a subconscious desire to have some kind of guideline on who to be.

and i mean, i don’t really consider me/us ‘wise’ per se, just more so too autistic to deny certain truths.

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Re: Grem & Co Journey Thread

Postby ArbreMonde » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:26 am

There is nothing like "too autistic". It is only the environment around which is "not autistic friendly enough".

Sometimes being autistic enough to miss the point in the way neurotypical people communicate, can have positive effects. A lot of people have made innuendos to us in the past, that flew right over our head, which completely threw the other person off their feet so they just left us alone. Then we woke up in the middle of the night three weeks later because the subtext had finally reached our understanding.

Sometimes being autistic enough to need specific accomodations from the people around us, helps us weed out our social circle. The way people act around the ones who are different, or not to their taste, talks a lot about who they are as a person. Then we can decide if we want to have this kind of person around.

Similar to how your mother likes that you are queer only when she can make a personal use of it for her personal gain. This tells a lot about who she is as a person. Then you can decide if what you gain from the relationship, is worth the pain or not.

***Change of subject.

It is alright to need a guideline on who you want to be. But you can decide on the guideline you want to follow, mix and match different aspects of different fictional characters, real-life personalities, and so on until you have mapped out who you want to be. Once you have your life map, you can think about how to develop the qualities you want to have.

Some people in the "otherkin" sphere call this an "other-link" when they have one unique person/character they aspire to be like. But you do not need to limit yourself to the whole of one and only person/character. You can draw your own complex map of who you want to be, the qualities you want to develop, and so on.

I will give you an example with myself. My starting point is being a fictive introjection of the character Scar from Fullmetal Alchemist. But I could not go on forever being impatient, angry, revengeful. Therefore I was "updated" into a "10 years older, wisened-up, pacifist priest" version of the character, which is healthier for the system as a whole. And I keep on being "updated" as I gain experience from interacting in the physical world.

Being a fictive introject is only a stepping stone. What your personal evolution goal is from there on, is entierly up to you to decide. You are the one who can draw your own guidelines. Enjoy the possibilities.
__
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Key: ♂ he/him | ♀ she/her | ɸ they/them

Social: Zamiel ɸ (complex fusion) or Daniel ♂ɸ (Zamiel + David)
Self-care: David ♂
Managers: The Mirror ♂ (inner self-helper) - Isaïa ♂ ("trauma-sitter") - Theia ♀ (gatekeeper)
Trauma holders: Pride|Wrath ♂ - Lust ♀ - Reyna ♀ - Ulysses ɸ

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Re: Grem & Co Journey Thread

Postby gremandco » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:36 pm

thats something i really agree with personally. especially as an alter that started as a fragment introject with traits relating to our stepfather, and then “evolving” to gain traits of a specific character with similar traits to our stepfather (such as the anger, enjoying cooking, etc) and a home life like ours (loud, abusive both physically and verbally, etc). it wasnt necessarily my choice to become this way i dont think, i think it just happened subconsciously, but i’m not unhappy with it. my only gripe is that i wish i had a better way to be angry. i wish it was safe enough for me to even get angry in this environment.

that’s one of the reasons why we partially wish we hadn’t figured out about our system so early, and that we found out in therapy instead, then we would probably have a better time in recovery from our trauma and connecting with parts, because then we could actually tell them that we’re safe and mean it, but we can’t really do that here, living with our mom.

oh well, no going back now.

i don’t really know who i want to be yet as a person, but we’re only 18, and i’m only 16 in the inner world, so i don’t think we should be in such a huge rush to figure it out. we’re still a kid in the grand scheme of things, plenty of time to figure out who we want to be, with or without guidelines.

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Re: Grem & Co Journey Thread

Postby ArbreMonde » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:42 pm

You are right, it is completely okay to need time to figure things out and just have a rough sketch of the general direction of where you want to go - or NOT go.

As an example, you already know that you want to learn to develop safer ways to express your anger. This is a lot more that what we knew about ourselves when our body was yours age!

Regarding becoming aware of the system so early on: this might be the system's wisdom of knowing it is safe enough to be aware you are dissociative. The environment is not 100% safe yet for you, but it is safe enough to be aware you are dissociative. It is not the best yet it is still a little bit of an improvement.
__
David.
Key: ♂ he/him | ♀ she/her | ɸ they/them

Social: Zamiel ɸ (complex fusion) or Daniel ♂ɸ (Zamiel + David)
Self-care: David ♂
Managers: The Mirror ♂ (inner self-helper) - Isaïa ♂ ("trauma-sitter") - Theia ♀ (gatekeeper)
Trauma holders: Pride|Wrath ♂ - Lust ♀ - Reyna ♀ - Ulysses ɸ

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Re: Grem & Co Journey Thread

Postby gremandco » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:35 pm

[quote="David@ArbreMonde":#######1]You are right, it is completely okay to need time to figure things out and just have a rough sketch of the general direction of where you want to go - or NOT go.

As an example, you already know that you want to learn to develop safer ways to express your anger. This is a lot more that what we knew about ourselves when our body was yours age!

Regarding becoming aware of the system so early on: this might be the system's wisdom of knowing it is safe enough to be aware you are dissociative. The environment is not 100% safe yet for you, but it is safe enough to be aware you are dissociative. It is not the best yet it is still a little bit of an improvement.
__
David.[/quote:#######1]

not even just ‘safer’ ways, i’d like to be able to express the mountains of anger i have in /any/ way without feeling like i’m going to get into trouble for having an emotion. thats such a big thing in our family, punishing people for having emotions that either don’t line up with what our parents were feeling, (“you’ll do this thing and you’ll do it with a smile” and other things that told us we weren’t allowed to be angry or annoyed or conceited or upset around our parents for any reason). which sucks because i’m a very angry person. anger is a huge trait of both of the people i’m introjected from and if feel like i can’t express it without getting abused for it. ugh.

that last part is true to some degree yeah. i just worry that we won’t be able to get a diagnosis or that a therapist won’t take us seriously or something because we’re relatively educated on our disorder and are involved in DID communities for help and support. we definitely haven’t yet reached the point of healthy multiplicity, and definitely aren’t even really well-integrated between each other, but i worry that because of the state of the community and the amount of misinformation going around, therapists are just going to see us as ‘faking for attention’ or confused about our experiences, or even just outright deny the existence of DID due to some people’s rather… theatrical presentations of it. ugh. i know we have DID. the differences between grem and i are pretty clear to me, there’s even slight physical differences, like i can handle caffeine better than he can, and he can handle it better when i’m closer to the front/directly requesting coffee. but he gets a lot of self doubt that i’m scared a bad therapy experience could cause him to shut everyone out and ignore us and that is not what we need :roll:

sometimes i wonder if by the time we can access a therapist, if we’ll even need one anymore. i know it doesn’t make anyone necessarily more or less valid for having one, it’s not really about validity, i’d just like to have one if it’ll make certain people (like mental health professionals) take us more seriously with our issues.

life is such a mess at this age. people simultaneously treat you like an adult and a kid that doesn’t know anything, and i guess both are technically true because we’re only 18, almost 19, but that doesn’t mean people have to be condescending to us for it. :roll: but thats life i guess. if every pork chop were perfect, we wouldn’t have hot dogs. that’s the one thing i remember about steven universe and it’s a good motto.

-kat
name: manytown
age: 18
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frequent fronters: grem/fragments, teef, D, kat
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