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sexuality struggle

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sexuality struggle

Postby gremandco » Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:36 pm

this is gonna be a bit of a hard one for me i think.

i dont know why i keep struggling with this one part of myself but it just keeps coming up and i can't stop thinking about it. i think it might be part of our OCD or something but i keep obsessing over my sexuality.

i think im gay. and i dont know how to feel about it. it almost feels bad. i keep looking at girls and asking myself why i dont like them as much. i feel like there is a nonzero level of attraction to girls, but i cant tell if its me forcing myself to like them or if im genuinely attracted to them, and its not like itd be easy for me to go out and date a girl or something to figure that out for several reasons, the number one reason being that im an alter, and the number two reason being that our system is bodily very isolated and cant easily leave the house to meet people and friends. so thats kind of out the window.

i dont relate to straight guys either. a lot of straight guys rate women or say weird stuff about which girls theyd sleep with, like locker room talk, but i just cant do that. it feels extremely wrong and objectifying and makes me really uncomfortable. its kind of really against my morals as a person to objectify people like that no matter the gender. hell, i have a hard time talking about fictional characters like that for some reason.

i also know im male, but part of me really wants to wear things like high heels. i really like high heels, i think they look cool. i dont know if that fits into a discussion of sexuality at all but it just feels like no matter what way i look at myself, who im attracted to, it all just points in the direction of "queer".

its not a bad thing. at least i know that on a surface level its not a bad thing. but in my head it feels wrong, like im not allowed to be like this. i feel like i have to be masculine, that i have to like girls or not care about dating at all. i have such a hard time just enjoying things because of it. i've found a small hobby in taking pictures of stuff, like the plants and sky and houses outside, but i have a hard time feeling like im allowed to enjoy it. this stuff isnt really sexuality stuff but it ties in with me feeling like im not 'allowed' to do or like certain things.

i think the term im looking for is 'internalized homophobia'--im homophobic to myself. but i dont know how to get over it. i still cant tell if i actually like girls or not either. every time i try to think about it too hard it makes me very anxious, i can feel it in my chest. i just cant tell if its embarrassing for me to think about or if its something else. i feel like its partially embarrassing for me to think about in that its embarrassing that i have to question if i even like girls or not when i "should" be straight (i know i dont have to be straight, this is just what it feels like in my head).

this is mostly just me venting about something i dont really know how to handle as a newer split. but if anyone has any advice i would really appreciate it. i just dont know how to approach this and its confusing and frustrating.

-kat

(ps: i share a lot of traits with our stepfather who is homophobic and transphobic, and i feel like this might be part of why im struggling so much with this)
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Re: sexuality struggle

Postby Snaga » Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:58 pm

I think that Human sexuality is complex and confusing as Hell, even without throwing dissociative disorders into the mix. It's hard enough for Singlies sometimes, much less someone with Multiples.

gremandco wrote: i think it might be part of our OCD or something but i keep obsessing over my sexuality.


Ain't OCD fun? I'm going to speak as a Single here- also, just to clarify if you're not aware, I (and the body) are male- well the body is male and I'm... male enough to get by, let's put it that way. Not trans- though I'm not far from it, either. For convenience' sake, I call myself male. Wish I were a girl, but wishes aren't reality. Also I call myself Bisexual.

There's HOCD- homosexual OCD fears- and then there's just 'well I'm OCD and I don't fit into the all-straight box and so of course I'm going to obsess the hell over it because I'm OCD that's my superpower'. I'm in the latter category. Until I dispassionately looked back on all my real-world/internal-world history- my actions and thoughts, and came to a logical conclusion... I spent a lot of angst on bouncing between thinking I'm gay and thinking I'm straight and wondering which. The reality is that I'm both, actually. I don't ruminate on it as much as i used to, once I'd made up my mind, so to speak. I laid the law down to my OCD and said 'okay this is what we are, deal with it'.

Of course, being a newer split.. you personally, as an alt, might not feel you have that luxury. Perhaps figure out what orientation the system as an aggregate is, then you might get insight as to what you are, within the system?

gremandco wrote:i think im gay. and i dont know how to feel about it. it almost feels bad. i keep looking at girls and asking myself why i dont like them as much. i feel like there is a nonzero level of attraction to girls, but i cant tell if its me forcing myself to like them or if im genuinely attracted to them


Remember that if you're Not Straight, that it doesn't at all mean that you are going to feel the same kinds of attractions to males and females, if you're not outright Gay. If I'm thinking in terms of companionship and romance, I'm going to be more 'straight'. If I'm thinking in terms of having sex, I'm more liable (but not always) to be thinking more 'gay'. I do not automatically glom onto other dudes on an emotional level. I don't generally 'check out' other males. I do glom onto gals. But my carnal lusts.. run a little more 'gay', if we're talking about the sex act itself. It sound confusing, because it's confusing. Bisexuality can be like two jigsaw puzzle pieces- they fit together, but they can be very convoluted.

gremandco wrote:i also know im male, but part of me really wants to wear things like high heels. i really like high heels, i think they look cool. i dont know if that fits into a discussion of sexuality at all but it just feels like no matter what way i look at myself, who im attracted to, it all just points in the direction of "queer".


Ah I think for practical purposes sometimes sexuality and gender can be considered separate things- but not always. The two can sometimes be very intertwined. From an early age I found myself sneaking girly things to wear. No, I'm not a crossdresser but as a young person/young adult, well, I enjoyed stuff like that. You're right- girls have cooler clothes. If I'm online somewhere you have a three-dimensional avatar- guess what it's going to look like? Not a dude- I'm that in the real world all the time what's the fun in that? None, that's what. It's boring.

gremandco wrote: like im not allowed to be like this. i feel like i have to be masculine, that i have to like girls or not care about dating at all.


I think the pressure is heavier on males to be male. Definitely. Girls can get away with being a tomboy- to an extent. And to a much greater extent than a boy can be a sissy. No Normie ever said, 'oh look, he's such a sissy, isn't that cute?', have they? No, they haven't. So yes, we're pressured to be the manly man. I feel it too, and I'm not overly macho. I can deal with it, but it sucks. But see even I look at effeminate guys sometimes with a judgmental eye. When I have the capability to be just as effeminate! I guess it's societal pressure. As a political conservative, I understand from a civilisational standpoint that in the whole attitudes are what they are because they work, and they've been honed out of millennia of humans being human, but that doesn't mean I have to personally like it. I don't. I'd like to be just as sissy as I want to be but I find myself judging myself and others over it. But humanity in general seems to be wired to want men to be real men, and women to be real women. Probably that whole 'living things are programmed to eat and make babies' thing going on there.

Plus... if you're not straight but you're not gay either... I do think very much males are genetically programmed to you know, be roosters. We want to appear in the best possible light for the females. We want to strut. To be anything less than a manly man is going to hit that brick wall that's in our firmware and we be like 'oh crap!' It sucks.

gremandco wrote: i have such a hard time just enjoying things because of it. i've found a small hobby in taking pictures of stuff, like the plants and sky and houses outside, but i have a hard time feeling like im allowed to enjoy it. this stuff isnt really sexuality stuff but it ties in with me feeling like im not 'allowed' to do or like certain things.


Oh God, that is so OCD. There's so much of that in the OCD forums. 'I'm not allowed to enjoy this completely unrelated thing because I fear I'm (fill in the blank)'. That is common as dirt in the OCD forum. I don't know maybe it's a form of self-punishment. All I know is I've heard that multiple times in OCD forum. Goes on all the time, you're far from alone in that.

gremandco wrote:i think the term im looking for is 'internalized homophobia'--im homophobic to myself. but i dont know how to get over it. i still cant tell if i actually like girls or not either. every time i try to think about it too hard it makes me very anxious, i can feel it in my chest. i just cant tell if its embarrassing for me to think about or if its something else. i feel like its partially embarrassing for me to think about in that its embarrassing that i have to question if i even like girls or not when i "should" be straight (i know i dont have to be straight, this is just what it feels like in my head).


OCD muddles things so much. Try not to let it. I really don't know what to say. If you were not a Multiple, and this was the OCD forum, then I'd be like, well at what age did you think you liked guys, because anything after around 14 or 15 is going to be a hard sell on me based on things I've read and my own personal experience. If you dig girls, ultimately you're going to know it, ditto with guys. But you have to make yourself somehow look past anything OCD has placed in your head and go with historical thoughts and actions.

But.. as you say, 'newer split'. I don't know how capable you are of being able to do that.
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Re: sexuality struggle

Postby gremandco » Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:38 pm

Snaga wrote:Of course, being a newer split.. you personally, as an alt, might not feel you have that luxury. Perhaps figure out what orientation the system as an aggregate is, then you might get insight as to what you are, within the system?


i think we just tend to call ourselves bisexual/queer as a collective. we are collectively polyamorous as well, and have partners of multiple genders but yeah being a newer split i dont really know them that well.

Snaga wrote:Remember that if you're Not Straight, that it doesn't at all mean that you are going to feel the same kinds of attractions to males and females, if you're not outright Gay.


yeah, ive heard quite a bit before from bisexual people that even their "straight" attraction is queer in some way just because of the nature of their bisexuality so i wouldnt be shocked if thats what was happening to me.

Snaga wrote:Ah I think for practical purposes sometimes sexuality and gender can be considered separate things- but not always. The two can sometimes be very intertwined. From an early age I found myself sneaking girly things to wear. No, I'm not a crossdresser but as a young person/young adult, well, I enjoyed stuff like that. You're right- girls have cooler clothes. If I'm online somewhere you have a three-dimensional avatar- guess what it's going to look like? Not a dude- I'm that in the real world all the time what's the fun in that? None, that's what. It's boring.


this is also something ive heard from older queer people before, about gender and sexuality not being entirely separate all the time. and yeah, guy clothes are just kinda boring most of the time. im no fashionista or anything but i want to be able to wear something cool every once in a while, and if im being honest, a lot of women's clothes are just really cool. guys clothes can be loose and comfortable for a casual day but women's clothes can often times be flashy, they can say a lot about the person that wears them. again i have no desire to actually be female but feminine clothing just feels good to wear sometimes.

Snaga wrote:I think the pressure is heavier on males to be male. Definitely. Girls can get away with being a tomboy- to an extent. And to a much greater extent than a boy can be a sissy. No Normie ever said, 'oh look, he's such a sissy, isn't that cute?', have they? No, they haven't. So yes, we're pressured to be the manly man.


yeah i dont doubt that a lot of this comes from societal stuff in combination with me having a lot of traits of our step father, who's again, homophobic and transphobic in a lot of ways, (we don't live with him anymore fortunately). i'm also an introject of a character that is pretty masculine as well, and i don't know why but i struggle to remember that i'm not actually him, and that i can just be whatever i want to be. i catch myself thinking things like "no, i can't do that because the character i'm introjected from wouldn't do that" and it's extremely frustrating, which sucks because i already kind of have anger issues, (another trait from both the character im introjected from and our step father).

Snaga wrote:Oh God, that is so OCD. There's so much of that in the OCD forums. 'I'm not allowed to enjoy this completely unrelated thing because I fear I'm (fill in the blank)'. That is common as dirt in the OCD forum. I don't know maybe it's a form of self-punishment. All I know is I've heard that multiple times in OCD forum. Goes on all the time, you're far from alone in that.


i didn't know that was an OCD thing... guess you learn something new every day. thanks, i hate it. /joke

Snaga wrote:OCD muddles things so much. Try not to let it. I really don't know what to say. If you were not a Multiple, and this was the OCD forum, then I'd be like, well at what age did you think you liked guys, because anything after around 14 or 15 is going to be a hard sell on me based on things I've read and my own personal experience. If you dig girls, ultimately you're going to know it, ditto with guys. But you have to make yourself somehow look past anything OCD has placed in your head and go with historical thoughts and actions.

But.. as you say, 'newer split'. I don't know how capable you are of being able to do that.


well... i'm actually a teenage alter in the headspace. i'm around 16 years old, give or take. i don't know if that would change much honestly. but yeah, i split a couple weeks ago i think? i dunno, sometime around last month im pretty sure. so i havent had a lot of time to analyze this kind of stuff. i would look at the media i was introjected from but 1) im again, not that character literally, and 2) he doesnt actually seem to show any genuine romantic interest in anyone, male or female. at least it's not written into the show directly. there's a lot of subtext and fan theories and stuff like that for him and a few other characters, but i don't know if that's something i internalized while splitting or not. as in, i dont know if it actually affected me as a person when i split off. its hard to tell.

from what i can tell about myself so far and what ive been doing while fronting, historical thoughts and actions tell me that i... am attracted to guys. girls i dont know about. i think girls make me nervous, but im also pretty sure thats a normal teenage boy thing. i dont know why its different for guys though, guys make me far less nervous than girls do, even though im probably attracted to both in some way. its weird. but maybe thats just a "me being a guy" thing.

who knows at this point :roll:

thanks for the advice/commentary though, it helps to be able to talk and get food for thought for this kind of stuff.

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Re: sexuality struggle

Postby ArbreMonde » Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:30 pm

Going to add my own grain of salt!

kat@gremandco wrote:i think it might be part of our OCD or something but i keep obsessing over my sexuality.


We had some periods like that, obsessing over who we are attracted to, why, how, and our gender identity/ies too. We're more relaxed on these subjects now.

kat@gremandco wrote:i think im gay. and i dont know how to feel about it. it almost feels bad. i keep looking at girls and asking myself why i dont like them as much.


Maybe because we live in societies where heteronormativity is very strong and a man is seen as "unmanly" if he's not a cishet patriarcal oppressive pile of muscles with no emotions.

kat@gremandco wrote:i feel like there is a nonzero level of attraction to girls, but i cant tell if its me forcing myself to like them or if im genuinely attracted to them


And to add to the mix, there is the "split attraction model" explaining that, the way you are attracted to different genders/people can be very different. According to the split attraction model you can have many ways of being attracted by other people: sexually, romantically, but also, platonically, aesthetically, sensually... In here we have a lot of aesthetic and sensual and platonic attraction all the ways but for the rest it's very alter-specific.

kat@gremandco wrote:its not like itd be easy for me to go out and date a girl or something to figure that out for several reasons


We have many reasons why we decided to not have romantic-like relationships at the moment, and each of us has their own. It's okay if it is not the right moment for you.

As for us we decided over relationships within the system, plus friendships outside of the system and it works well for us so far. But it's not every system who enjoys intra-system relationships, and some can be very uncomfortable at the idea.

kat@gremandco wrote:i dont relate to straight guys either. a lot of straight guys rate women or say weird stuff about which girls theyd sleep with, like locker room talk, but i just cant do that. it feels extremely wrong and objectifying and makes me really uncomfortable. its kind of really against my morals as a person to objectify people like that no matter the gender. hell, i have a hard time talking about fictional characters like that for some reason.


What you describe is what I would call "toxic masculinity". It is the same mindest that says "sensitive guys are not manly", that "real men bottle up their emotions" and other stuff that are toxic behaviors, for the men engaging in those behaviors as well as for other people around them.

kat@gremandco wrote:i also know im male, but part of me really wants to wear things like high heels. i really like high heels, i think they look cool. i dont know if that fits into a discussion of sexuality at all but it just feels like no matter what way i look at myself, who im attracted to, it all just points in the direction of "queer".


Queer masculinity is best masculinity (according to me)! As a whole person we are non-binary, "medically" transmasculine with a femboy gender presentation. We would wear heels if we could find comfy ones to wear.

It's difficult sometimes to "untangle" attraction and identity. Some trans people realize their attraction shifts as they become more openly trans. Some people's attraction shifts as they evolve as persons. And I guess it's not the same thing, being a machoman attracted by cute, fem embies, and being a femboy being attracted by the same cute fem embies. (I use "emby" to mean "non-binary people" btw).

When you really want to dig deep into identity attraction and the like, every person is unique. There are labels more or less specific that we can use, try on, drop... according to what feels more comfortable to express who we are and find similar people to chat with, but in the end, even two cishet men are different from each-other in very subtle ways.

kat@gremandco wrote:at least i know that on a surface level its not a bad thing.


It's a good start! Congrats!

kat@gremandco wrote:but in my head it feels wrong, like im not allowed to be like this. i feel like i have to be masculine, that i have to like girls or not care about dating at all.


I'm sorry that you feel that way. I sincerely hope you will find peace with yourself. It can take a lot of time and self-exploration and sometimes, just allowing yourself some space to live and be without any label before you just allow everything identity related to float back towards you so you can pick them up one by one and try to match them together in a different way.

kat@gremandco wrote:but i have a hard time feeling like im allowed to enjoy it. this stuff isnt really sexuality stuff but it ties in with me feeling like im not 'allowed' to do or like certain things.


This might be THE core of the issue: your emotions and feelings of "not being allowed to have nice things". It is one of the issues (dissociative) trauma survivors face and it's a difficult one. I hope that you will find peace at some point and find a way to give yourself enough space to rest, enjoy things (little ones for a start, always start with baby steps!), maybe take the time to share in the ejoyment others of your system can have in small daily things?

kat@gremandco wrote:i still cant tell if i actually like girls or not either.


BIG MOOD, pal! As a whole we are a lot confused about that, especially since the more we dig into gender stuff the more we realize how complicated it is - between the gender identity in the brain, the present shape of the body, the diversity of genders and bodies, all of this wrapped in the diversity of gender presentations, and how one can be a man and be a drag queen, or a woman and be a drag king, and all the mix-and-matches in-between...

So we decided to just... go with the flow. See what kind of person attracts which one of us inside, and keep note of this, and maybe find a label that could describe as a whole the "people that caught my eye in this or that way" and keep switching labels as new informations come into our knowledge.

David uses the label "gay" for himself even though he would more fit in "gay-flexible" or "bi-curious" but he likes to call himself "gay" so, gay he is!

So you can totally decide over "Gay but maybe another label might fit" or "Questionning myself right now" or "Pan-curious" or even "I don't care-sexual" or whatever label feels comfortable!

kat@gremandco wrote:i feel like its partially embarrassing for me to think about in that its embarrassing that i have to question if i even like girls or not when i "should" be straight (i know i dont have to be straight, this is just what it feels like in my head)


It feels a bit like you are questionning "Who you are supposed to be" or "Who you are meant to be" instead of just calmbly observing "Who you are right now and it's okay if I keep changing and evolving because everything changes and evolves even mountains and continents".

We had (still have) times like that. Especially since most of us are introjections and we tend to sometimes go back to "Who we are supposed to be according to the original media?" instead of "Hey, this is the seed I come from, and look how I grew and evolved from here!"

kat@gremandco wrote:this is mostly just me venting


It feels good to vent from time to time!

kat@gremandco wrote:(ps: i share a lot of traits with our stepfather who is homophobic and transphobic, and i feel like this might be part of why im struggling so much with this)


You might have inner conflicts stemming from this, yes. But you know what? It is only a starting point. You can grow from this point and blossom in your own, fabulous, kat self.

With time, you can keep the positive traits you inherited from him, and grow them an nurture them into even better, kat versions of said traits - and remove the toxic traits to replace them by other, better, kat traits.

Give yourself time. Be kind to yourself. You are worth taking care of.

We might give more in-depth answers to the rest of the thread later but right now this is as far as we can manage to answer. Sorry if we repeat things that have already been said!
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Re: sexuality struggle

Postby ArbreMonde » Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:27 pm

Allrighty I don't want to derail the topic too much but I cannot bring myself NOT to point out a few things you said Snaga.

Snaga wrote:Wish I were a girl.

From an early age I found myself sneaking girly things to wear.

If I'm online somewhere you have a three-dimensional avatar- guess what it's going to look like? Not a dude-

When I have the capability to be just as effeminate!

I'd like to be just as sissy as I want to be but I find myself judging myself and others over it.


Snaga, I cannot tell who you are or who you are not but... You sound a lot like a trans woman or transfem person in the egg. I am NOT saying "It means you are" of course! Only you can know! But, I thought it might be a good idea to highlight the possibility for you.

Of course you can also be a femboy! Femboys are cool too!

Or be, well, whoever you are and use whatever label feels more comfortable!

It just kinda... Dunno, it felt important for me to highlight those for you. Do as you please with my highlights and live your best, happiest life. :)
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kat@gremandco wrote:and yeah, guy clothes are just kinda boring most of the time. im no fashionista or anything but i want to be able to wear something cool every once in a while, and if im being honest, a lot of women's clothes are just really cool. guys clothes can be loose and comfortable for a casual day but women's clothes can often times be flashy, they can say a lot about the person that wears them. again i have no desire to actually be female but feminine clothing just feels good to wear sometimes.


I LOVE rainbow clothings and accessories, girly crop tops... I define myself as non-binary transmasculine. I hate how much "gender neutral" clothings are all some variations of "cut a hole in a potato sack and called it a day". :roll: I want "gender-neutral" clothings that are just... Any kind of flashy, glamory, frilly clothes in different cuts so that different body types can wear it.

kat@gremandco wrote:i'm also an introject of a character that is pretty masculine as well, and i don't know why but i struggle to remember that i'm not actually him, and that i can just be whatever i want to be.


Most of our introjects here are yelling "RELATABLE" and "MOOD" in the background. You're not alone!

kat@gremandco wrote:i don't know if that would change much honestly.


Time will tell! I mean, our Little, Pride, has gotten used to saying "I've been 4 years old for 30 years" so I guess it can be fun in a way.

kat@gremandco wrote:2) he doesnt actually seem to show any genuine romantic interest in anyone, male or female. at least it's not written into the show directly.


Same for us introjects in here. So we just... Go with the flow. But it's in our core temperament/s to be chill like that so maybe that helps. We had our moments of obsessing over stuff, but I guess it stemmed more from anxiety and similar mechanisms rather than OCD so it makes it easier to deal with I guess.

kat@gremandco wrote:i... am attracted to guys. girls i dont know about. i think girls make me nervous, but im also pretty sure thats a normal teenage boy thing. i dont know why its different for guys though, guys make me far less nervous than girls do, even though im probably attracted to both in some way. its weird. but maybe thats just a "me being a guy" thing.


Probably. I mean, if you know from experience how to act around guys and how to interact with them, it makes it easier than interacting with girls. Moreover, being bi is different for everybody. Some feel the exact same attraction for different genders, while others experience a very specific different attraction for different genders.

Oh and Lust wants me to add that it's even yet another experience to be on the asexual/aromantic spectrum because of the highly specific conditions needed to experience some type of attraction. Also you can be full-on gay for guys and kinda grey-ace or grey-aro for gals (as an example of split attraction).

Myself I'm queer-oriented: I'm attracted by people who look queer AF. Mostly aesthetically though if the conditions are right... :wink:
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Re: sexuality struggle

Postby Snaga » Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:17 am

<hijack>

ArbreMonde wrote:Snaga, I cannot tell who you are or who you are not but... You sound a lot like a trans woman or transfem person in the egg. I am NOT saying "It means you are" of course! Only you can know! But, I thought it might be a good idea to highlight the possibility for you.


Oh believe me I've given it a lot of thought. 'Almost but not quite' is what I find myself falling back on. I know it's a dirty word for some, but the COGIATI test results seem to peg me pretty well. More than autogynephilia, less than trans.

At least, not trans enough to do anything about it.

ArbreMonde wrote:Of course you can also be a femboy! Femboys are cool too!


Femboys are cool and cute as heck. And yes there's an inner femboy inside me- but putting that on the outside would scar passers-by for life :roll: . We'll just keep it a little secret. :wink:

But thanks. I've given this thought over many years.

ArbreMonde wrote:Any kind of flashy, glamory, frilly clothes


https://youtu.be/RmodpErxD1s

:mrgreen:

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Re: sexuality struggle

Postby gremandco » Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:19 am

ArbreMonde wrote: And to add to the mix, there is the "split attraction model" explaining that, the way you are attracted to different genders/people can be very different. According to the split attraction model you can have many ways of being attracted by other people: sexually, romantically, but also, platonically, aesthetically, sensually... In here we have a lot of aesthetic and sensual and platonic attraction all the ways but for the rest it's very alter-specific.


ive never heard of the split attraction model until now. thats really interesting and makes a lot of sense when you think about it. people are so focused on romance and sex that they disregard other forms of attraction. i know our host is aromantic, but i dont know if thats what im experiencing with my attraction (or lack thereof) to girls.

AbreMonde wrote:We have many reasons why we decided to not have romantic-like relationships at the moment, and each of us has their own. It's okay if it is not the right moment for you.

As for us we decided over relationships within the system, plus friendships outside of the system and it works well for us so far. But it's not every system who enjoys intra-system relationships, and some can be very uncomfortable at the idea.


mostly its not easy for me because of our living situation; it's complicated and we're trying to get out, but we kind of have no way to leave the house and haven't for about 7 years now due to no fault of our own--it's caused by our mother, who is, frankly, bats### crazy. saying this as someone who is bats### themselves. takes one to know one.

it's also not really easy for me to date someone without disclosing the fact that i'm an alter in a DID system, and we have no place to really go for anything like those one night stands. even if we did, that would bring in the questions of things like consent and alters and whether or not you have to define things like virginity by who's fronting or whether the body has had sex or not. it's all so complicated.

the only friends we have are online and while it's not impossible to date someone over the internet, it would, on some level, feel disappointing to me that i wouldn't be able to see them in real life. i could probably do it if we were living in the same state (we are in the US) and could occasionally meet up, or we got super close over the span of a long time with the promise of being able to meet at some point. i dont know. id have to think about something like that.

AbreMonde wrote:This might be THE core of the issue: your emotions and feelings of "not being allowed to have nice things". It is one of the issues (dissociative) trauma survivors face and it's a difficult one. I hope that you will find peace at some point and find a way to give yourself enough space to rest, enjoy things (little ones for a start, always start with baby steps!), maybe take the time to share in the ejoyment others of your system can have in small daily things?


i've managed to find a small hobby, something i can allow myself to enjoy without freaking out too much. but sometimes i do freak out afterwards. makes me nervous. the hobby ive made for myself was just taking photographs with our cell phone. usually in the early mornings. i like to hang out outside in the early mornings just before the sun rises so i can watch it get brighter and take pictures while listening to music i like. i also enjoy walking around the neighborhood in the early morning and walking around this forest area we have directly next to our house. its kind of a combination of a forest and a walking trail. either way its really pretty and i love taking pictures of it and all the trees and plants there. i made an entry in our journal talking about how being there and the pictures i took were so pretty and they made me so happy my chest felt funny. almost like it was hurting. thats pretty much the only time i feel any kind of good emotions fun fact.

either way i think its a good step forwards.

AbreMonde wrote:David uses the label "gay" for himself even though he would more fit in "gay-flexible" or "bi-curious" but he likes to call himself "gay" so, gay he is!

So you can totally decide over "Gay but maybe another label might fit" or "Questionning myself right now" or "Pan-curious" or even "I don't care-sexual" or whatever label feels comfortable!


thats a pretty good way of putting it. i should probably just breathe more and go with the flow instead.

AbreMonde wrote:It feels a bit like you are questionning "Who you are supposed to be" or "Who you are meant to be" instead of just calmbly observing "Who you are right now and it's okay if I keep changing and evolving because everything changes and evolves even mountains and continents".

We had (still have) times like that. Especially since most of us are introjections and we tend to sometimes go back to "Who we are supposed to be according to the original media?" instead of "Hey, this is the seed I come from, and look how I grew and evolved from here!


a lot of the introjects in our system are like that actually, thinking of their sources as where they came from vs where they are now and stuff. i have a hard time thinking about it that way and i think thats because im such a new split. i just came about last month. i know its no rush. life is a marathon and all that. but its hard not to obsess over this stuff really. i dont like it but i know its a combination of the OCD and my own personal anxieties from the way i was created.

kat@gremandco wrote:(ps: i share a lot of traits with our stepfather who is homophobic and transphobic, and i feel like this might be part of why im struggling so much with this)


You might have inner conflicts stemming from this, yes. But you know what? It is only a starting point. You can grow from this point and blossom in your own, fabulous, kat self.

With time, you can keep the positive traits you inherited from him, and grow them an nurture them into even better, kat versions of said traits - and remove the toxic traits to replace them by other, better, kat traits.[/quote]

i'll be honest. from what i remember about the guy the only things i can really remember other than all the screaming is that he had money so he liked to buy everyone things and take us out to eat and the movies and stuff and that he also liked to cook and liked loud music. two of those things are things i do. i enjoy cooking and loud music. i like to do things but i cant because we dont have much money so instead i go hang out outside and get eaten alive by mosquitos in the early morning (we just got a citronella candle for that so its not as bad).

he also smoked cigarettes which is a habit we're unfortunately slowly picking up but its not easy to maintain since we're technically underage (the age for buying cigarettes in the US was recently changed to 21 and we are 18; the cigs we smoked are ones weve had since before that so they were pretty stale).

so basically i have a lot of room to work with there haha.

AbreMonde wrote:I LOVE rainbow clothings and accessories, girly crop tops... I define myself as non-binary transmasculine. I hate how much "gender neutral" clothings are all some variations of "cut a hole in a potato sack and called it a day". :roll: I want "gender-neutral" clothings that are just... Any kind of flashy, glamory, frilly clothes in different cuts so that different body types can wear it.


i wouldn't say im quite like that but i get what you mean about the gender neutral clothes thing. if it were up to me i think id just like to wear those low cut shirts or muscle shirts. something very loose and comfortable but still a little too queer to be fully seen as a straight man. or one of those vampire shirts. you know the kind. the ones that are low cut with the strings tying the top together and the loose filly sleeves. i like to go mostly for loose and comfortable clothing.

maybe one of those very loose silk robes or something. the kind with the feathers/fluff at the sleeves and the bottom.

AbreMonde wrote:Most of our introjects here are yelling "RELATABLE" and "MOOD" in the background. You're not alone!


AbreMonde wrote:Probably. I mean, if you know from experience how to act around guys and how to interact with them, it makes it easier than interacting with girls. Moreover, being bi is different for everybody. Some feel the exact same attraction for different genders, while others experience a very specific different attraction for different genders.


yeah. that makes a lot of sense actually.

AbreMonde wrote:Oh and Lust wants me to add that it's even yet another experience to be on the asexual/aromantic spectrum because of the highly specific conditions needed to experience some type of attraction. Also you can be full-on gay for guys and kinda grey-ace or grey-aro for gals (as an example of split attraction).

Myself I'm queer-oriented: I'm attracted by people who look queer AF. Mostly aesthetically though if the conditions are right... :wink:
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yeah i dont know much about the split attraction model yet. ill have to do my own researching or something. but who knows? maybe thats whats happening over here.

thanks for the advice/commentary.

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Re: sexuality struggle

Postby bellic007 » Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:48 pm

gremandco wrote:this is gonna be a bit of a hard one for me i think.

i dont know why i keep struggling with this one part of myself but it just keeps coming up and i can't stop thinking about it. i think it might be part of our OCD or something but i keep obsessing over my sexuality.

i think im gay. and i dont know how to feel about it. it almost feels bad. i keep looking at girls and asking myself why i dont like them as much. i feel like there is a nonzero level of attraction to girls, but i cant tell if its me forcing myself to like them or if im genuinely attracted to them, and its not like itd be easy for me to go out and date a girl or something to figure that out for several reasons, the number one reason being that im an alter, and the number two reason being that our system is bodily very isolated and cant easily leave the house to meet people and friends. so thats kind of out the window.

i dont relate to straight guys either. a lot of straight guys rate women or say weird stuff about which girls theyd sleep with, like locker room talk, but i just cant do that. it feels extremely wrong and objectifying and makes me really uncomfortable. its kind of really against my morals as a person to objectify people like that no matter the gender. hell, i have a hard time talking about fictional characters like that for some reason.

i also know im male, but part of me really wants to wear things like high heels. i really like high heels, i think they look cool. i dont know if that fits into a discussion of sexuality at all but it just feels like no matter what way i look at myself, who im attracted to, it all just points in the direction of "queer".

its not a bad thing. at least i know that on a surface level its not a bad thing. but in my head it feels wrong, like im not allowed to be like this. i feel like i have to be masculine, that i have to like girls or not care about dating at all. i have such a hard time just enjoying things because of it. i've found a small hobby in taking pictures of stuff, like the plants and sky and houses outside, but i have a hard time feeling like im allowed to enjoy it. this stuff isnt really sexuality stuff but it ties in with me feeling like im not 'allowed' to do or like certain things.

i think the term im looking for is 'internalized homophobia'--im homophobic to myself. but i dont know how to get over it. i still cant tell if i actually like girls or not either. every time i try to think about it too hard it makes me very anxious, i can feel it in my chest. i just cant tell if its embarrassing for me to think about or if its something else. i feel like its partially embarrassing for me to think about in that its embarrassing that i have to question if i even like girls or not when i "should" be straight (i know i dont have to be straight, this is just what it feels like in my head).

this is mostly just me venting about something i dont really know how to handle as a newer split. but if anyone has any advice i would really appreciate it. i just dont know how to approach this and its confusing and frustrating.

-kat

(ps: i share a lot of traits with our stepfather who is homophobic and transphobic, and i feel like this might be part of why im struggling so much with this)


I am a bit late to see this post.But it's sure that I can relate with many things.My system also swings between fragments that are oriented to girls, and trans and also sometimes oriented to feminine guys ..i watch porn that are or involve this but in real life none of the fragments are shoeing up .likr our system is totally asexual like there is not a single adult part that's oriented to women or men.And sometimes I feel so frustarted about this.
Some fragments had nasty experiences with straight women and decided to stay away from them.also some parts had bad experiences with trans people as well.
Somrparts had done gaychats and interested in certain fetishes that are homosexual in nature.but overall there is a lack of secual drive in our system.seems like the orientations cancel each other out till nothing is left.
Maybe this is a stage or something.and as multiples with very little sense of personality it's hard to assign genders to parts.as fragments are very cunning to stay free from all such nomenclature.
Just I am not freaking out with this anomalies and open to anything that can help me stay aroused.
Dx Body Dysmorphic Disorder
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Smoker (M) 14 yo
Vyakulan (M) 23 yo
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Re: sexuality struggle

Postby ArbreMonde » Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:52 am

@ bellic007 : What you describe can also fit some aspec orientations (asexual/aromantic orientations).

In fact, some aspec orientations involve, enjoying the idea of the act without any desire to take part in the act itself.

If you feel like it, you might have a look at the specificities of the asexual / aromantic communities. Maybe you will find a label you like that describe you/s.
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Re: sexuality struggle

Postby bellic007 » Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:14 am

ArbreMonde wrote:@ bellic007 : What you describe can also fit some aspec orientations (asexual/aromantic orientations).

In fact, some aspec orientations involve, enjoying the idea of the act without any desire to take part in the act itself.

If you feel like it, you might have a look at the specificities of the asexual / aromantic communities. Maybe you will find a label you like that describe you/s.
__
David.


I like to take part in sex, but that's not in the surface it's like the urge has no connection with body completely detached from it .Like for an Outsider they may think I am not straight or I am Castrated.But I had hormones like oxytocin and all that release while watching porn or stuff but when it comes to reality my body is a zombie .Not at all turned on also when I come to home my body sometimes react in a realistic manner .Simply saying there is no Body in My Romantic thoughts...
Dx Body Dysmorphic Disorder
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Smoker (M) 14 yo
Vyakulan (M) 23 yo
Nirali(M) 13 yo
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