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can it be 'mixed'?

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can it be 'mixed'?

Postby KitMcDaydream » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:43 am

Hi

I just want to ask on behalf of our system if dissociation can be of a mixed type? And would other conditions affect how you experienced DID or OSDD?

So for example we have the one seen as 'the original self', she seems to have her own mini system and hold all the ones before the age of 16. They can't 'come out' unless she is near the front to start with. They all fit with the OSDD1A description of 'different versions of me'. They are all 'the most autistic' and most non-verbal or will only speak in certain circumstances or to certain people.

Then there are some 'seperate others'. I am Jody I have my own identity, memories and know I am not 'the self'. The OS see's me as an alter made in the memory of someone they were very close friends with many years ago (who died in real life). I see my role as 'a social mask' when I'm on the outside and help look after the youngest little's when I'm inside.

There's also one who the OS see's as 'her mother'. she appears to play the 'caretaker' role though as they can both age-slide they sometimes blend as twins the same age and other times present as 'mother and daughter' but together up front.

Our OS will only come out when home alone or when visiting a relative who still lives in the family home and they always go as 'mother and daughter' They'll walk the dog if we wake up early enough but if there' s gonna be too many people about or we have to deal with a RL interaction that day (eg a delivery) someone else has to host.

The protector/persecutor seems to be 'someone different' (ie not a 'version of self') but they don't seem to be there fully... more like a 'fragment' (as I understand it) we also have a 'secretary' who is a fragment and deals purely with typing/written communication which is probably why all our posts have a similar style no matter whose speaking (cos the same fragment has the job of doing all the typing).
There are several 'fragments' for different jobs that the OS can't do herself that are not 'full personalities'.

I don't know if the 'gatekeeper' job is done by the OS (choosing who comes up front to do the bits of life she can't cope with) or whether that's another alter. I've never actually met 'the gatekeeper' myself.

It's hard to know exactly how many are on the inside as some have the ability to change form. The OS calls them 'the changelings' on the inside they can switch between different animals or take a human shape but be able to blend in with their surroundings. (you know like that TV ad where people wear body paint and blend into the side of tree's and you can't tell they're there?). So I'm never sure if I've met the same one twice who was someone else the last time I saw them!!! They could be 'the fragments' who only stay in role for a short time until a job is done then return to their forest on the inside. It might even be a different one coming up each time for the same job but they have the ability to appear as the 'same fragment' I'm not sure??? I know there's like 'a tribe' of them. They don't speak or appear to have names and in their natural form look like a white translucent body with no gender, ready to take on any form.

I'm not sure where exactly we fit and how much is down to our original having severe autism in early childhood and that impacting personality and 'sense of self' too.

Jody
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Re: can it be 'mixed'?

Postby Dwelt » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:48 am

I'm not totally sure about the question : can DID and OSDD be mixed ?

If it is that, then no... but yes.

It's common for people with DID to have some parts or sub-system who work like OSDD parts, or even like PTSD parts. But if there's still some differentiated parts and amnesia, it's DID.

The level of separateness and autonomy of a part is on a spectrum, and to say if it's DID or something else, you look at the most advanced parts on this spectrum and the overall presentation.

For example, most of our main alters are in fact C-PTSD-like sub-systems, and we have maybe two of us who are OSDD-like sub-system. But we still have amnesia and those alters are still clearly separate from each other, so as a system, we have DID.

The only things I've noticed with autism and DID is that the "level" of autism seems to be a predictor of the "level" of dissociation, like the more the person will have autistic symptoms, the more they'll be at risk to be polyfragmented ; and it's common to have one disorder which hide the other : some will have their DID hide by autistic symptoms, others (like us) will have their autism hide by dissociative symptoms.

But that's only what I've seen, from the people I know with both disorders, it's nothing studied or proved by science as I can't find anything about autism and DID - which is quite frustrating.
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Re: can it be 'mixed'?

Postby KitMcDaydream » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:24 pm

Dwelt wrote:I'm not totally sure about the question : can DID and OSDD be mixed ?

If it is that, then no... but yes.

It's common for people with DID to have some parts or sub-system who work like OSDD parts, or even like PTSD parts. But if there's still some differentiated parts and amnesia, it's DID.

The level of separateness and autonomy of a part is on a spectrum, and to say if it's DID or something else, you look at the most advanced parts on this spectrum and the overall presentation.

For example, most of our main alters are in fact C-PTSD-like sub-systems, and we have maybe two of us who are OSDD-like sub-system. But we still have amnesia and those alters are still clearly separate from each other, so as a system, we have DID.

The only things I've noticed with autism and DID is that the "level" of autism seems to be a predictor of the "level" of dissociation, like the more the person will have autistic symptoms, the more they'll be at risk to be polyfragmented ; and it's common to have one disorder which hide the other : some will have their DID hide by autistic symptoms, others (like us) will have their autism hide by dissociative symptoms.

But that's only what I've seen, from the people I know with both disorders, it's nothing studied or proved by science as I can't find anything about autism and DID - which is quite frustrating.



Hi

Thank for answering. For the first part .. I meant can you have some alters who seemed more OSDD1A and some more typically DID.

I'm not sure what a 'C-PTSD-like' subsystem or alter would present like? and how that would be different to other two?

I guess it could be OSDD and having alters of both the 1A and 1b description??? I'm not sure about 'poly fragments'? - where they fit in??

i didn't know about the 'level' of autism being a predictor of the level of dissociation though I guess it makes sense if you think about it!

The only things we have found online where 2 autistic adults described their systems in great detail is on the author Donna Williams site, where she interviews another lady called Jennifer (also autistic/DID) and its a really interesting read.

You might have found this before but in case you haven't here's the link.

https://blog.donnawilliams.net/2012/06/ ... versation/
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Re: can it be 'mixed'?

Postby KitMcDaydream » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:42 pm

Our OS wants to say:

This I really agree for me

"JENNIFER
I think my Autism led to my exposure anxiety and avoidance of the world and it’s people, not my DID. If anything, my DID allowed me to, at least appear to, connect to people.
(through the alters)
DONNA:
Yes, I can relate to that. I agree that my DID allowed me to adapt far more broadly to my autism than I would have without DID. But I also feel that my autism meant I dissociated more often, more deeply than most children so it created fertile ground for PTSD and DID, which are both dissociative disorders I feel happened to me because I was more prone to dissociation processes than most children"
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Re: can it be 'mixed'?

Postby ArbreMonde » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:13 pm

Hello, our grain of salt!

Our inner structure is more or less as such (as understood as of today):

• Zami: a sub-system of c-PTSD parts and OSDD-1a parts, most are animal-like or have at least some animal component. Hidden behind Zami, the G/Hosts, past hosts who identify with the body as it was the moment they were active. The G/Hosts are very small parts, very fragmented.

• Most other parts: very independant, DID-like or OSDD-1b-like (a couple small sub-systems), mostly functional ANP though they hold some emotional material too. Some are closer with each-other than others, some are closer to the front, etc.

• A swarm of smaller fragments, some contain memories or emotions, some are introjections. They stay inside most of the time, though rarely some gets "lost" and surfaces to the front for an instant.

We have a lot of micro-amnesia on an everyday basis, and depending on the situation, we can have a lot of amnesia regarding the past traumas, too.

Being autistic, we have a lot of hypersensitivities to light, noise, sociale exhaustion, emotions... which means we have always dissociated a lot in order to deal with that. Sprinkle trauma to the mix, and you got yourself a nice lil DID.

Like Dwelt said, even if not each and every part is perfectly independant and causes perfect total blackouts when switching, these things do happen to us. So, like Dwelt said, we classify as DID because our "pile of symptoms" reaches as "high" on the dissociative continuum as the DID zone.

Just like you don't need to have all the autistic traits at the highest possible to be diagnosed as autistic, you only need to reach high enough for enough of the traits.

__
Urielle (I think? Lust is around too)
Autistic, DID

Alter {sub-systems} | he/him | she/her | they/them

Hohenheim | Trisha | Urielle{Uriel|Theia} | X/Solomon/David/Scar | Ulysses | Lust | {Pride|Wrath} | {Zami} | Saul | Aragorn | Sherlock Holmes | Envy | {Isaïa|Reyna} ...

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Re: can it be 'mixed'?

Postby KitMcDaydream » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:33 pm

ArbreMonde wrote:Hello, our grain of salt!

Our inner structure is more or less as such (as understood as of today):

• Zami: a sub-system of c-PTSD parts and OSDD-1a parts, most are animal-like or have at least some animal component. Hidden behind Zami, the G/Hosts, past hosts who identify with the body as it was the moment they were active. The G/Hosts are very small parts, very fragmented.

• Most other parts: very independant, DID-like or OSDD-1b-like (a couple small sub-systems), mostly functional ANP though they hold some emotional material too. Some are closer with each-other than others, some are closer to the front, etc.

• A swarm of smaller fragments, some contain memories or emotions, some are introjections. They stay inside most of the time, though rarely some gets "lost" and surfaces to the front for an instant.

We have a lot of micro-amnesia on an everyday basis, and depending on the situation, we can have a lot of amnesia regarding the past traumas, too.

Being autistic, we have a lot of hypersensitivities to light, noise, sociale exhaustion, emotions... which means we have always dissociated a lot in order to deal with that. Sprinkle trauma to the mix, and you got yourself a nice lil DID.

Like Dwelt said, even if not each and every part is perfectly independant and causes perfect total blackouts when switching, these things do happen to us. So, like Dwelt said, we classify as DID because our "pile of symptoms" reaches as "high" on the dissociative continuum as the DID zone.

Just like you don't need to have all the autistic traits at the highest possible to be diagnosed as autistic, you only need to reach high enough for enough of the traits.

__
Urielle (I think? Lust is around too)



Hello Urielle and Lust

Our system has had big change around and upheaval over the last 5 years. First as there was an understanding of DID for the first time ever by one of the ANP hosts who had believed up to that point she was a single personality.

In the past there would be a total amnesia between the ANP and 'core group' alters. But our CG and the original, rarely got chance to 'come out' much when we had college, work and the usual socialisation expected to attend in our early years.

It wasn't until much later in life when due to physical conditions too the host was isolated for long periods and other alters would start to 'pop out' - maybe to see what was happening or why nothing was happening (if they weren't getting called up to do a job as much?). I guess some realised they could get out 'undetected' and realised somehow the ANP host never remembered and started coming out more...I believe Kit was the first to stay out longer, start researching, start communicating with others...and caused some confusion by giving some names (that they weren't called on the inside!) just for the purpose of this board it seems!

We mostly didn't have own names because our job was to present 'as the original' so have to answer to the bodies legal name...unless we are created in the image of a specific introject...like myself 'Jody'

Our original sometimes feels she would like to be able to come out and 'have her own life' but like yourself she has so many sensory issues, she would have had an extremely limited life anyway and she knows this. She is aware she has achieved things via alters that she wouldn't have experienced without them. (such as getting to university, coping with work and visiting places).

Our solution now - instead of ANP's that are not aware they are part of a system at all - as we're no longer expected to have to cope with school, work etc and are all aware of each other now. ..whoever is hosting will act as 'a virtual carer' .. we signal when its safe for OS to come out if she wants, and are ready to take over if the doorbell should suddenly ring or another dog walker come the other way or something.

As we've been shielding all year and haven't had all vaccinations yet - life has been very quiet and controlled and many members of our core group have thrived over the last year.

Jody.
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Re: can it be 'mixed'?

Postby IainEtc » Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:03 am

Diagnoses are just labels. The people making the labels don't have the experience so they're just guessing. Don't get worried about labels. You're going to be organized however you're organized.

Colin
Iain - 14, Colin - 17, Evan - 7, Cody - 16, Raven, & Host - the adult out front

When they say 'be yourself',
which one do they mean?
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Re: can it be 'mixed'?

Postby KitMcDaydream » Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:33 am

IainEtc wrote:Diagnoses are just labels. The people making the labels don't have the experience so they're just guessing. Don't get worried about labels. You're going to be organized however you're organized.

Colin



Thanks Colin. It's not so much the organisation of our system but I read that part of the criteria was that the person was distressed about it.

The thing is we've never known anything else! ..and for many years we thought it was just 'part of being autistic' until we met many other autistic others and realised our experience was in no way typical (many had more severe additional learning difficulties and couldn't imagine or understand concepts such as 'other personalities within them) or if they had were unable to express it!

It really surprised us to find so many in the DID community on the autistic spectrum when many in groups such as the NAS forum didn't have it!

We wonder if the fact we are not distressed to find we are multiple (well we already kinda knew just didn't know there was a specific name for it in the outside world!) would mean we wouldn't get the diagnosis anyway?

No-one would come out in counselling as we've had it before and actually been in a unit (for autism) for 9 months and the others never revealed themselves in front of RL others, so were let out when they considered we had recovered from our 'meltdown'. Even a Mental Health Nurse and a psychologist failed to spot it! But our system is exceptionally good at being covert when they need to be!

I think in these times though we won't pursue a diagnosis in the outside world especially given the covid situation and the bodies physical health. We'd hate to catch it if we had to go in for 'observation' ,(no-one would come out anyway, we'd probably just die of covid in hospital!).

I guess some (of us) are worried other DID people won't believe we are unless we have a diagnosis from some real life expert! Imposter syndrome seems to be an issue for some of us

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Re: can it be 'mixed'?

Postby ArbreMonde » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:27 am

Jody@KitMcDaydream wrote:No-one would come out in counselling as we've had it before and actually been in a unit (for autism) for 9 months and the others never revealed themselves in front of RL others, so were let out when they considered we had recovered from our 'meltdown'. Even a Mental Health Nurse and a psychologist failed to spot it! But our system is exceptionally good at being covert when they need to be!


According to the ISTD Guidelines, about 95% of DID people are "stealth". You would not know they are DID unless they told you. This is why it takes special professionnals to diagnose DID.

Moreover, hiding one's condition (trauma, etc.) is part of the reason we dissociate into different identities. We dissociate in order to hide things from ourselves and others. Therefore, of course it will not be obvious that DID people are DID.

According to some estimations, between 1% and 3% of the world population could be DID. This is an enormous amount of people. I am sure you have already met DID people in person. Yet, you did not recognize them as DID - and neither did they recognize you as DID.

DID is so good at hiding that some people do not discover they are DID until very late in life.

I understand the worry about labels but, with or without it being "official", you can still read about DID and DID therapy and use what tools will fit your needs the best.

__
David.
Autistic, DID

Alter {sub-systems} | he/him | she/her | they/them

Hohenheim | Trisha | Urielle{Uriel|Theia} | X/Solomon/David/Scar | Ulysses | Lust | {Pride|Wrath} | {Zami} | Saul | Aragorn | Sherlock Holmes | Envy | {Isaïa|Reyna} ...

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Re: can it be 'mixed'?

Postby KitMcDaydream » Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:19 pm

ArbreMonde wrote:
Moreover, hiding one's condition (trauma, etc.) is part of the reason we dissociate into different identities. We dissociate in order to hide things from ourselves and others. Therefore, of course it will not be obvious that DID people are DID.

DID is so good at hiding that some people do not discover they are DID until very late in life.

__
David.



"We dissociate in order to hide things from ourselves" - I didn't think about that aspect of it all! For us I think we considered our dissociation was about protection from a world that the OS struggled to process and make sense of. How could an host or original hide something from themselves? Surely they'd know?

But the 'deaf alter issue' left all those who tried to figure out why and how...stumped :shock: .. How, if there were 'hearing alters' within the inside and even 'slipping out' at times, could the Host at the time remain both oblivious to 'others' coming out or even existing AND still 'remain deaf' after the body had 'recovered some hearing'. .....from a logical viewpoint it made absolutely no sense at all..in fact it was logically impossible! ...and I guess that's where we went wrong DID is not about logic! ..a purely logical mind was never going to unravel the mystery! ...it has to be related to the originals' intense phobia of unpredictable noises!..They found a way to have complete control of the volume in the world! ..and how people communicated with them!!

We were in our forties. It was the meltdown of an host due to depression and bereavement plus the hormonal mood swings (of PM starting) triggering new people out that led to the discovery of 'others' and us finding out about each other.
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