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Painful Comments Aftermath Discussion

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Re: Painful Comments Aftermath Discussion

Postby Zor » Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:19 pm

Una+ wrote:Look up locus of control. A person with an overly external locus of control may be very controlling of others and/or experience themselves as controlled by others. Either way, it is all about enmeshment, and very common in dysfunctional families.

I will look into that, thanks for those tips.
Una+ wrote:In the grand scheme of things, you are high functioning and relatively normal even with DID. So, really, what's her problem? Imagine the upset to her fragile Disney castle of a life if you had Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, some kind of rare and very costly cancer, a brain tumor, strokes, severe diabetes, kidney failure, etc.

What's the problem? Essentially that "they" (the alters/rest of me/us) exist at all. Honestly, IDK how she'd handle that but given the blackouts that started not long before we married, IDK she'd have the same aversion to those kinds of things- though it's worth noting that functional yet dependent is kind of fitting the theme of what she likes, right? It fits neatly into her desire for control...

Una+ wrote:One of the most effective treatments for locus of control problems is to attend 12 step support groups for adult children of alcoholics. This is also a big component of dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) and cognitive behavior therapy (CBT), both often conducted in groups. Consider them either for her or for you. You going yourself could help you get clear about whether you should try to stay in the marriage or get out of it.

Good luck with your journey.


I will look into that and bring it up with our T next time we talk to him. There could be something available for us already that I'm not aware of.

-- Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:22 pm --

IainEtc wrote:Your wife sounds like she's totally miserable and hurting bad but won't let you be in any position to help her. I'm sorry she's being so mean to you. She's also wrong. You can be married to a multiple and be just fine. So maybe she just doesn't want to be married to anybody anymore because she's all messed up.


That she sounds miserable, that she's hurting is part of what hurts ME so bad, too. I hate hurting her. I hate that I/we are the cause of her hurting in any way at all... even more so that there's nothing I/we can do about it. We exist, I exist, this way... and nothing can change that. The only thing that can change as far as her attitude towards it is just that- how SHE chooses to handle it, to accept it or be bitter and miserable.

I hope she's willing to at least TRY to work on us- the marriage- but IDK what we can do if she's not. We can't force her to be happy or come to terms with our condition, and certainly don't deserve to be uncomfortable or hurting (none of us, not system or myself, nor her) deserve that.
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Re: Painful Comments Aftermath Discussion

Postby Una+ » Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:34 am

Zor wrote:I hate hurting her.

Right there we can see your own locus of control issue. It is the match to hers. She is hurting. Are you responsible? So you have alters. How does that make you responsible for her emotional state? There is nothing inherently misery-making in a spouse having DID. In fact your own wife enjoyed the benefits of your condition for many years, as you inadvertently showed her only the parts most pleasing to her.

Let's say you get a cancer diagnosis and she is miserable about that and bitterly complains that you are making her miserable. Is that true? Are you responsible? How are you responsible?

I am not being dismissive; I am trying to provoke you to rethink how you frame the situation. Her reality is changing and her distress is very real. But does your assuming responsibility for any part of her distress, or sharing her misery, help her in any way?
Dx DID older woman married w kids. 0 Una, host + 3, 1, 5. 1 animal. 2 older man. 3 teen girl. 4 girl behind amnesia wall. 5 girl in love. Our thread.
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Re: Painful Comments Aftermath Discussion

Postby Zor » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:09 am

Una+ wrote:
Zor wrote:I hate hurting her.

Right there we can see your own locus of control issue. It is the match to hers. She is hurting. Are you responsible? So you have alters. How does that make you responsible for her emotional state? There is nothing inherently misery-making in a spouse having DID. In fact your own wife enjoyed the benefits of your condition for many years, as you inadvertently showed her only the parts most pleasing to her.

Let's say you get a cancer diagnosis and she is miserable about that and bitterly complains that you are making her miserable. Is that true? Are you responsible? How are you responsible?

I am not being dismissive; I am trying to provoke you to rethink how you frame the situation. Her reality is changing and her distress is very real. But does your assuming responsibility for any part of her distress, or sharing her misery, help her in any way?


You're not wrong. I don't know I consider myself responsible for it, but I still hate that she's hurting because of it- or more accurately b/c of her choice on how to react to it.
But you're right, it's NOT my fault.

Also, "In fact your own wife enjoyed the benefits of your condition for many years, as you inadvertently showed her only the parts most pleasing to her." is something I had not even thought about or considered. Thanks for pointing that out. That's a powerful thought and something I want to mull over more.

I didn't take anything you said as dismissive- far from it. I think it's very helpful, actually. I am going to think more on what you said b/c I suspect while I logically know it's not my fault or responsibility, there's probably some underlying feeling of guilt or self-blame there- as you said, it comes out in what I have said above. That's something I need to really think about and do some self-examination over. Thank you for that reply.
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Re: Painful Comments Aftermath Discussion

Postby ArbreMonde » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:45 am

You are not the one hurting her. She is hurting herself with the idea of you that she created in her mind and does not want to let go.

__
Envy
Autistic, DID

Alter {sub-systems} | he/him | she/her | they/them

Hohenheim | Trisha | Urielle{Uriel|Theia} | X/Solomon/David/Scar | Ulysses | Lust | {Pride|Wrath} | {Zami} | Saul | Aragorn | Sherlock Holmes | Envy | {Isaïa|Reyna} ...

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Re: Painful Comments Aftermath Discussion

Postby Zor » Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:06 pm

ArbreMonde wrote:You are not the one hurting her. She is hurting herself with the idea of you that she created in her mind and does not want to let go.

__
Envy


Thanks. Yeah, that's true and it's hard to accept... but the more we think on it, the more clear it is that she's not unconditionally accepting me/us for who I am/we are. And you're right, THAT conditional thing is why she's so hurt and upset... I hate it, b/c I DO love her and I hate to see her hurting, but y'all are 100% correct. It is entirely out of my hands and ONLY SHE can change that. I think what hurts even more, though, is that I know she's chosen this view, this approach, and despite being three years now, she's chosen to stick to that immediate day one reaction and never grow and move on... never chosen to let go of the conditional shock and make a choice to try and be more accepting, understanding, and/or more compassionate. That is a hard pill to swallow.
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Re: Painful Comments Aftermath Discussion

Postby IainEtc » Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:49 am

Hi Zor,

BEING multiple doesn't hurt anybody. You have to DO something to hurt people. If you didn't do anything (not changing yourself to suit her doesn't count) then you're not hurting her. If you didn't DO anything to hurt her then it's NOT your fault.

So much abuse stuff in all this! Lots of us learned IT was all our fault. All of it. Always. Everywhere. Even if you don't know what freaking IT even is! Somehow that's our fault too! So freaking tired of this!!!

Iain
Iain - 14, Colin - 17, Evan - 7, Cody - 16, Raven, & Host - the adult out front

When they say 'be yourself',
which one do they mean?
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Re: Painful Comments Aftermath Discussion

Postby SystemFlo » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:54 am

It would be great if there would be a way to make a part-swaps. I'd take one part from your system, and you'd take one of mine for a day, to achieve something. I'd give you; to her; Sami for one day. And take you away from her, spend a day in here. You could decide what we do, and we'd have you company from our system to match with what you'd wanna do on your day off.

Or if you'd be worried, I'd be there and tell you gazillion times that worst thing Sami does is look at people or not look at them. (Sounds weird, but is surprisingly effective tho, his eyes/look controls people weirdest ways and also when not meant to.) And the rest of our boys who have been closer to him I have, could tell the same. He isn't happy with abuse, and when he spots that, those people will know. But he is not a bad person or here to hurt anyone. And nowadays he is mostly adult, there's no reason for him to be a teen in te inner world like it used to, so he doesn't slide in age that much. He can be mature, not an angry, mistreated teen acting out, like he has sometimes been.

We'd give you back a wife who maybe learned how to respect a bit, after facing someone who doesn't feel bad if she cries, yells and acts out after she's been abusive and has to be accountable for her actions, and who'd, after that, be very happy to have you back. And we'd hope you had a fun day doing what it was that you wanted to do while in here.

We haven't really talked to you, and it's because when growing up, we were the marriage counselor to our parents and were made responsible to be there to stop their fights (and you know how scary it is for kids when adults fight), and a lot of abuse is around the emotional incest that took place there. For some reason, it's what our mind is working with now, too. And we don't wanna relive it, it's not something that has healed and we don't have a way to support someone in these issues in an adult way. And because of that, it's hard for us to even know what is good kind of support and helpful right way. Life is yours anyway.

Also, I remember Sami talking to you something about boundaries and how you said how exaggerated it is what he said, like not taking it seriously but more like he would have been joking, and he had meant it literally. He would've done and said just the things he said then, literally. We're not expecting we could give someone words to their mouths they would say, everyone speaks their own way, but it was for an example what he would say. I don't remember what it was about, and it doesn't matter. The point is that then was when we realized how it's not just not-good for us because of our past, but also just a waste of time to be part of this.

We're so far from each other what comes to things like that. It's pretty simple, if you'd have him in your system, or me, you wouldn't have ever been married to your wife, and the problems wouldn't exist. They wouldn't have ever started, shed showed her true colors of being able to feel compassion only for herself and well, we know you love her, but we actively stay away people like that. And it's no wonder that someone with years and years of several abusive relationships around them just don't see what we see, looking it from the outside.

We've decided to rather be alone and safe than used by anyone. Even tho I am lonely now when our life has changed, it's better than people attacking. But because we have no emotions invested in your situation we can just react to what we read, like other people in here do as well. Looking too close makes you blind to it.

We've read how your life turned upside down and you lost all your friends and had to learn to live new way and a lot was going to change. We've read about your nightmares and a bit about things Angel went thru. And the support you got from your closest one:

It's blank, because it's missing. We hope you can see that too. It hurts, but you are entitled for feeling bad for yourself. I guess you do not see what other people can see, because realizing how she doesn't give a $#%^ would hurt you too much. You see her how you hope she'd be and close your eyes totally from how she is in reality. It's your trauma. She doesn't give a $#%^, but acts like it's hers and why we do not wanna try to write anything supportive is because it simply makes me angry you let someone treat your system that way and make excuses for them for years.

And that is the trauma in us talking, which is why it's best for you too we stay away. You deserve support, but I'd be angry at you, another abuser who wants you to do what I say. And you are very good person, too kind to this world where you have to stand up for yourself. I hope you don't take my reaction wrong way, it is trauma speaking and I'm able to see the other side as well. You deserve better. The anger comes from wanting better things to you as well, but I know it doesn't support anyone. Neither does speaking nasty things about your wife you care about, That would be mean to you too, but I'd want to. Like then you'd see it too, but it's not how feelings work. We have tried to make someone be realistic, please please this time be realistic, but no, Knowing we wanted nothing but divorce mom stayed with him and used us to support her when she got hurt, over and over again, because every time he acts the exact same way he had always acted, it was and is a complete shock to her and oh so surprising and every time she then believes again he will change, Just like that, even tho he doesn't even promise to do so, or do anything to do so, or wanna do so, she believes it will happen. This sounds too much like the story we do know. She doesn't say she does her best to support you, or anything in those lines, and hasn't. She's been angry at you for having trauma symptoms.

I do not know what it is in relationships that makes people unable to learn, but there is something and we wish you will beat that and see things that have actually been done to you and hear all her words how much she cares about you.

There was a reason why I started writing this thing, and it is off topic. If it sounds selfish in the middle of crisis you're in, we understand and go away and ask another time again. If it makes you feel better someone cares they treated you wrongly, then great, it is why I'm here today. It's been a long time, I don't know if Pixie even remembers. Sami does, because.. he is good at remembering stuff and because it is what lead to him not writing in here anymore as in.. as a one of forum members. He got mad at Pixie and said things way too mean way, because it hit him so personally then, what Pixie had written, he got triggered and acted out unfairly angry ways, being mean. But Pixie couldn't have known, and there was a trigger warning in place, but he got triggered and he just got mad. And he is sorry and it bothers him. He doesn't write in here unless doing his defender duties, but he would wanna write an apology to Pixie about that. So I'm asking can he write her PM? Is it OK if we send you PM?

Like you see, I'm telling this in public, so it's not PM because he doesn't wanna anyone to know he ###$ up, it's just because it's not about defender stuff, but his personal stuff, and he's not a forum member like that. He went away because he was kind of asked to. Because he's bad. It was not the words used, we're not allowed to tell. But he agreed. He is bad, people are happier without him, and that's why he doesn't write is own stuff in here. Just when we ask him to come because we're triggered and whether people like it or not, he is our defender and he says the words the rest of us think but are too cowards to say with our own name.

And if you don't want his apology, then fine, we totally get you have more important things going on now than something from years ago. It's not to give him peace, not about us, but to give you justice, like real apologies are. And that is why we ask.

Flor
DID
main system:
Flor F adult co-host
Sami M 15-26 (age slider) system&safety manager
Lucas M 17 caretaker
Leon M 4
etc

subsystem:
Fourteen M 14 co-host, trauma holder, persecutor:
teens: Rain, Diamonds, Prince, Romeo, London, Random
tweens: Elias, Oliver
groups: Gotham kids
littles: Paris, Milan, Milo, Little Prince
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Re: Painful Comments Aftermath Discussion

Postby Zor » Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:41 pm

SystemFlo wrote:It would be great if there would be a way to make a part-swaps. I'd take one part from your system, and you'd take one of mine for a day, to achieve something. I'd give you; to her; Sami for one day. And take you away from her, spend a day in here. You could decide what we do, and we'd have you company from our system to match with what you'd wanna do on your day off.

Or if you'd be worried, I'd be there and tell you gazillion times that worst thing Sami does is look at people or not look at them. (Sounds weird, but is surprisingly effective tho, his eyes/look controls people weirdest ways and also when not meant to.) And the rest of our boys who have been closer to him I have, could tell the same. He isn't happy with abuse, and when he spots that, those people will know. But he is not a bad person or here to hurt anyone. And nowadays he is mostly adult, there's no reason for him to be a teen in te inner world like it used to, so he doesn't slide in age that much. He can be mature, not an angry, mistreated teen acting out, like he has sometimes been.

We'd give you back a wife who maybe learned how to respect a bit, after facing someone who doesn't feel bad if she cries, yells and acts out after she's been abusive and has to be accountable for her actions, and who'd, after that, be very happy to have you back. And we'd hope you had a fun day doing what it was that you wanted to do while in here.

Thanks for the hypothetical offer- but this is something we'd have to sort our for ourselves even if we could take you up on it, honestly.
So doc, again, mentioned there's marriage counseling available, and I'm going to, again, make that known to her- and if the same sort of brush off/dismissal is the result, I intend to ask her "then what's the point?" If we're not even willing to WORK on things, what's the point of keeping it in a broken state?!

SystemFlo wrote:We haven't really talked to you, and it's because when growing up, we were the marriage counselor to our parents and were made responsible to be there to stop their fights (and you know how scary it is for kids when adults fight), and a lot of abuse is around the emotional incest that took place there. For some reason, it's what our mind is working with now, too. And we don't wanna relive it, it's not something that has healed and we don't have a way to support someone in these issues in an adult way. And because of that, it's hard for us to even know what is good kind of support and helpful right way. Life is yours anyway.

Also, I remember Sami talking to you something about boundaries and how you said how exaggerated it is what he said, like not taking it seriously but more like he would have been joking, and he had meant it literally. He would've done and said just the things he said then, literally. We're not expecting we could give someone words to their mouths they would say, everyone speaks their own way, but it was for an example what he would say. I don't remember what it was about, and it doesn't matter. The point is that then was when we realized how it's not just not-good for us because of our past, but also just a waste of time to be part of this.

We're so far from each other what comes to things like that. It's pretty simple, if you'd have him in your system, or me, you wouldn't have ever been married to your wife, and the problems wouldn't exist. They wouldn't have ever started, shed showed her true colors of being able to feel compassion only for herself and well, we know you love her, but we actively stay away people like that. And it's no wonder that someone with years and years of several abusive relationships around them just don't see what we see, looking it from the outside.

If we'd known about all of us back then, IDK we'd be married right now either- and certainly not to her... heck she even told me once "If I knew then that you had this, I wouldn't have married you" about a year ago. So... yeah...

SystemFlo wrote:We've decided to rather be alone and safe than used by anyone. Even tho I am lonely now when our life has changed, it's better than people attacking. But because we have no emotions invested in your situation we can just react to what we read, like other people in here do as well. Looking too close makes you blind to it.

We've read how your life turned upside down and you lost all your friends and had to learn to live new way and a lot was going to change. We've read about your nightmares and a bit about things Angel went thru. And the support you got from your closest one:

That "rather be alone than unsafe/hurting" thing is a position several of us old already, and it's one I am coming to, too.

SystemFlo wrote:It's blank, because it's missing. We hope you can see that too. It hurts, but you are entitled for feeling bad for yourself. I guess you do not see what other people can see, because realizing how she doesn't give a $#%^ would hurt you too much. You see her how you hope she'd be and close your eyes totally from how she is in reality. It's your trauma. She doesn't give a $#%^, but acts like it's hers and why we do not wanna try to write anything supportive is because it simply makes me angry you let someone treat your system that way and make excuses for them for years.

And that is the trauma in us talking, which is why it's best for you too we stay away. You deserve support, but I'd be angry at you, another abuser who wants you to do what I say. And you are very good person, too kind to this world where you have to stand up for yourself. I hope you don't take my reaction wrong way, it is trauma speaking and I'm able to see the other side as well. You deserve better. The anger comes from wanting better things to you as well, but I know it doesn't support anyone. Neither does speaking nasty things about your wife you care about, That would be mean to you too, but I'd want to. Like then you'd see it too, but it's not how feelings work. We have tried to make someone be realistic, please please this time be realistic, but no, Knowing we wanted nothing but divorce mom stayed with him and used us to support her when she got hurt, over and over again, because every time he acts the exact same way he had always acted, it was and is a complete shock to her and oh so surprising and every time she then believes again he will change, Just like that, even tho he doesn't even promise to do so, or do anything to do so, or wanna do so, she believes it will happen. This sounds too much like the story we do know. She doesn't say she does her best to support you, or anything in those lines, and hasn't. She's been angry at you for having trauma symptoms.

I do not know what it is in relationships that makes people unable to learn, but there is something and we wish you will beat that and see things that have actually been done to you and hear all her words how much she cares about you.

The thing about a relationship is that it MUST BE a two-way street of accommodation and unconditional acceptance. We're not getting much of either of those, and that is the biggest problem imho. There's no acceptance of the whole me/us, of the system, and nearly NO accommodation for the sake of us being healthier - more whole and connected.

SystemFlo wrote:There was a reason why I started writing this thing, and it is off topic. If it sounds selfish in the middle of crisis you're in, we understand and go away and ask another time again. If it makes you feel better someone cares they treated you wrongly, then great, it is why I'm here today. It's been a long time, I don't know if Pixie even remembers. Sami does, because.. he is good at remembering stuff and because it is what lead to him not writing in here anymore as in.. as a one of forum members. He got mad at Pixie and said things way too mean way, because it hit him so personally then, what Pixie had written, he got triggered and acted out unfairly angry ways, being mean. But Pixie couldn't have known, and there was a trigger warning in place, but he got triggered and he just got mad. And he is sorry and it bothers him. He doesn't write in here unless doing his defender duties, but he would wanna write an apology to Pixie about that. So I'm asking can he write her PM? Is it OK if we send you PM?

Like you see, I'm telling this in public, so it's not PM because he doesn't wanna anyone to know he ###$ up, it's just because it's not about defender stuff, but his personal stuff, and he's not a forum member like that. He went away because he was kind of asked to. Because he's bad. It was not the words used, we're not allowed to tell. But he agreed. He is bad, people are happier without him, and that's why he doesn't write is own stuff in here. Just when we ask him to come because we're triggered and whether people like it or not, he is our defender and he says the words the rest of us think but are too cowards to say with our own name.

And if you don't want his apology, then fine, we totally get you have more important things going on now than something from years ago. It's not to give him peace, not about us, but to give you justice, like real apologies are. And that is why we ask.

Flor


Yes, you can PM us any time. I will let Pixie know to look for it. Also, you don't need to apologize- we've never taken anything you (or anyone here) said as offensive, mean, hurtful, etc. :)
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