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Integration: fusion

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Re: Integration: fusion

Postby KitMcDaydream » Tue May 04, 2021 5:19 pm

fireheart wrote:
KitMcDaydream, I suppose what I mean by "fusion" is no longer experiencing separate "I"s. Instead of tons of parallel experiences, only having one experience. Or at least feeling like all reactions are really "yours".
It's really cool though, that some of your parts are able to work together like that. Impressive!



Hi Thanks this is Jody. The two that can do that have now declared themselves ready to take over as full time host. They will remember one thing like remember an event the same eg when they went to visit family they both have the same memory of the event cos they were both there in the body at the same time...kind of like conjoined twins would be...is that what you mean?
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Re: Integration: fusion

Postby Dwelt » Tue May 04, 2021 5:49 pm

You're welcome !

To be fair, it's not a conscious thing. Our view of fusion is "we will not run away from it, but it's not the main goal right now". We just see an issue, think about how to solve it, and sometimes it's the right one needed to allow a fusion. Most of the time, we just follow our instinct and do what feels right on the moment. Truth is, we really understood how all of this worked after if worked :lol:

I tend to think the mind knows what it does and works for the fusion to happen, because it's how it's supposed to work - it's the brain which isn't ready because of traumas and/or comorbidities, and/or the environment which isn't safe enough to allow it to happen.

And okay for the PMs ;)
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The ones in charge : Plume (Plume+Alix+Lea) | Daemon
The main group : Claude, protector | Kal, protector | Erdian, social-manager

"Little" group : Nicolas | Eric | Jean | Linda | Emma | Nathan | Ethan

The last two : Cassandra | Varegh, protector
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Re: Integration: fusion

Postby Zor » Wed May 05, 2021 12:51 pm

TheGangsAllHere wrote:I also don't have any firsthand experience, but from what I've read, it doesn't sound like it's ever helpful to wish for it, or dream of it, as a goal, because there are parts who might try to suppress themselves in order to make that wish "come true."

Things I've read by people who seem to have actually achieved some kind of fusion make it sound like the pieces have come together, but as with a jigsaw puzzle, the lines are still there, and with stress, it can come apart again. (Not a perfect analogy--it would sort of be a puzzle with shifting lines, and probably a shifting picture as well...)

I think that because we've taken an atypical developmental path from the very beginning, we can't ever be the same as someone who developed a unified identity at the appropriate time. But I guess we can get close if everyone's memories, feelings, and experiences become accessible to everyone else--if it feels to any one of us that we were present for all the experiences that any of us remember--not just the one part who was there for it.


So that's kinda like the decision we came to about it. OUR goal is better communication and integration (cooperative co-existence) so we have better awareness of what each other is doing- we'd LOVE to get to where enough of us are co-aware (even if not co-present) to be able to more functionally switch in and out without the confusion, playing along like we know what's been going no, etc.

IF in this process we happen to have fusions... we'll deal with it. But we are most certainly NOT working toward fusions (much less a single/final fusion) as a goal. That seems destructive and absolutely terrorized us inside when our T first brought the idea up as "the single goal needs to be". Since then he's learned, as we have, that we CAN function and exist as parts of a whole, and work to that end, too. :)

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Re: Integration: fusion

Postby KitMcDaydream » Fri May 07, 2021 6:57 am

I think host would like most of 'other versions of me' to blend with her and 'M' for the new ANP front going forwards for the rest of our life.who deals with people. That would be a 5 alter fusion, we've never attempted that before! (4 'versions of me' and 1 introject)

However they have to want it too and 2 of them (1 child, 1 teen not counted in the 5 above) have done much better on the inside to be honest and hate anything social so really don't want to have to be 'dragged along' to anything where they have to be sociable and deal with people! I can't see them ever wanting to integrate, or the vulcans who don't understand 'humans'.

Two others have 'gone dormant' cos the part they played in the past as the main hosts in adult life is no longer relevant and they seem to have just disappeared. They could have been changelings who have since reverted back to their natural form and are now in the forest with the rest. We're not sure.

I'm not sure where I (Jody, introject and Phoenix, child changeling and 'little Susie's life companion) would fit in if the above 5 blended and others stayed inside. We actually really thrive been 'part of a system' and wonder where our roles would go if the host became a singleton?

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Re: Integration: fusion

Postby ArbreMonde » Fri May 07, 2021 7:16 am

Well, "singleton" refers to people with only one identity, instead of being dissociative. Therefore if your system becomes a singleton, it means that instead of being different people with different roles, you will be one unified people with many different roles.

If the fusions you describe, happens, you will still have your own role. Maybe a different one, as the system finds a new balance. But you will still be part of the team, and needed.

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Re: Integration: fusion

Postby KitMcDaydream » Fri May 07, 2021 8:06 am

Phoenix speaking - ..so if 'adult S +M want to be the 2 upfront for being 'the legal name' and dealing with life but still wanted 'us' as part of them..what if they each created their own sub-system and we moved into either the sub-system of either S or M?

So 'adult Susan' sub system could contain:
CA Susie
Sioux
Jody - you could be a 'memory holder' working with Sioux in the background and carrying chosen memories of 'Thea's and 'Maddie' time up front so host still feels she has memory of a complete life ie history of academic success and working life.

You said yourself you had come out before when Thea was partying during the 'uni days'... holding Thea's positive memories of uni life and your social skills and memories may help her reconnect with past friends after the pandemic???

You are also based on someone she bonded with at residential college so have memories of that friendship and time together and all she learned from 'the real Jodie'. (who has sadly since passed away in RL) Having you fused with her would give her more confidence socially. You also hold memories of her mother because you knew her and used to go stay at their house in the holidays, her mum was 'very fond of you' too .. you are important to the host or you wouldn't be an introject!!!

M - Mother introject's sub system
Phoenix (me) - handling communication with the changeling tribe and those who chose to stay inside
Bobby and Kit's memories where appropriate to help complete the full life memories.

This gives the new host the bodies good memories from 7yrs-50's so they 'feel like one person when they need to present as one' (in front of others), but we are still here and more connected than we were before?

Myself and the other changelings can fill in any gaps cos we can literally 'be' whoever she needed to be 'in that moment'.

and I don't see why we couldn't still come and chat on here? ..as the host's memory of us won't be erased, I don't see why we couldn't still 'come out' when we're home alone, which tbh is most of the time right now, it maybe a long time off if there's another covid wave too before its safe for the body to socialise with anyone other than our immediate 'support bubble'!!!

and besides Kit says we better still let her back out to come and play on BOTW2 when we get it!!! :D

Personally I think we work better as somewhere inbetween ..maybe being able to 'temporarily fuse' when host does have to deal with anything major (which would involve other RL people)..which is rarely longer than 5hrs at any one time!!! and still being able to get individual time out when host is having to spend months alone during to pandemic/shielding etc

why do we have to stay 'presenting as normal' when there's no-one ever here to see whether we're 'being normal'! ??? - just a thought!!

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Re: Integration: fusion

Postby KitMcDaydream » Fri May 07, 2021 8:51 am

KitMcDaydream wrote:Phoenix speaking - ..so if 'adult S +M want to be the 2 upfront for being 'the legal name' and dealing with life but still wanted 'us' as part of them..what if they each created their own sub-system and we moved into either the sub-system of either S or M?

So 'adult Susan' sub system could contain:
CA Susie
Sioux
Jody - you could be a 'memory holder' working with Sioux in the background and carrying chosen memories of 'Thea's and 'Maddie' time up front so host still feels she has memory of a complete life ie history of academic success and working life.

You said yourself you had come out before when Thea was partying during the 'uni days'... holding Thea's positive memories of uni life and your social skills and memories may help her reconnect with past friends after the pandemic???

You are also based on someone she bonded with at residential college so have memories of that friendship and time together and all she learned from 'the real Jodie'. (who has sadly since passed away in RL) Having you fused with her would give her more confidence socially. You also hold memories of her mother because you knew her and used to go stay at their house in the holidays, her mum was 'very fond of you' too .. you are important to the host or you wouldn't be an introject!!!

M - Mother introject's sub system
Phoenix (me) - handling communication with the changeling tribe and those who chose to stay inside
Bobby and Kit's memories where appropriate to help complete the full life memories.

This gives the new host the bodies good memories from 7yrs-50's so they 'feel like one person when they need to present as one' (in front of others), but we are still here and more connected than we were before?

Myself and the other changelings can fill in any gaps cos we can literally 'be' whoever she needed to be 'in that moment'.

and I don't see why we couldn't still come and chat on here? ..as the host's memory of us won't be erased, I don't see why we couldn't still 'come out' when we're home alone, which tbh is most of the time right now, it maybe a long time off if there's another covid wave too before its safe for the body to socialise with anyone other than our immediate 'support bubble'!!!

and besides Kit says we better still let her back out to come and play on BOTW2 when we get it!!! :D

Personally I think we work better as somewhere inbetween ..maybe being able to 'temporarily fuse' when host does have to deal with anything major (which would involve other RL people)..which is rarely longer than 5hrs at any one time!!! and still being able to get individual time out when host is having to spend months alone during to pandemic/shielding etc

why do we have to stay 'presenting as normal' when there's no-one ever here to see whether we're 'being normal'! ??? - just a thought!! << oops..sorry that thought was from Kit!

Phoenix


Damn...hit Quote instead of Edit...Sorry :oops:
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Re: Integration: fusion

Postby Dwelt » Fri May 07, 2021 11:02 am

I think our idea about the lowered dissociative barriers allowing fusion might be right - at least for us. Which leads me to an advice that might be obvious for a lot, but wasn't for us back then : you need integration before fusion. Really. It's not because a fusion can be done that you should do it, there's steps before that.

Those past few days, we've been thinking and working a bit around a trauma which was the "weak point" of the Plume/Alix fusion because both were involved with their own conflicting set of behaviors, so those memories tend to raise dissocitation between both parts. And what we thought was at risk to happen finally happenned : we splitted again. No more unified sense of self between us, but we're not back like we were before either. I've kept most of the traits we shared and she's mainly made of those traumatic memories.

Considering we did things backward, we knew it could happen, but we hoped we would be able to face this trauma without splitting... well, apparently not.

So yeah, really : integration has to come before if you want it to last.
French system

The ones in charge : Plume (Plume+Alix+Lea) | Daemon
The main group : Claude, protector | Kal, protector | Erdian, social-manager

"Little" group : Nicolas | Eric | Jean | Linda | Emma | Nathan | Ethan

The last two : Cassandra | Varegh, protector
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Re: Integration: fusion

Postby KitMcDaydream » Fri May 07, 2021 6:01 pm

can you explain what are you meaning by 'integration'? ...and why would that come first please?

If we had 2 main hosts blended each with their sub teams would we be 'integrated' or blended/fused?

Thanks

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Re: Integration: fusion

Postby ArbreMonde » Fri May 07, 2021 6:21 pm

Oh, I can answer that! :D

"Integrating" means something like "digesting the trauma", like "accepting that this thing is part of my experience, and coming to terms with that".

If there are things that one alter has "integrated" (accepted, come to terms with) but not another, they cannot fuse together! If they try to fuse, the one who has not "integrated" the information will risk being triggered which can lead to un-fusing. And it's not nice to feel the trigger and everything and go through the whole fusing-and-unfusing thing.

I dont know if you know the series Steven Universe? Some of the characters can fuse together and the episodes focused on the fusion thing, explain very well (I think) how opposite feelings or triggers can make one "unfuse" - hence, why it is important, for a healthy fusion, to first do a lot of self care about trauma and things and be on the same "wavelenght" else, the whole fusion can go downhill!

A person I know also pointed out to us how the whole "stable fusion" thing from the show, can be related to how a stable DID fusion works! :shock:

I feel like I'm derailing the subject a bit?

ANYWAY!

Integration refers to emotions, memories, stuff like that. Things that we accept are inside of us or that we cannot accept are part of us and that we dissociate. But integration does not refer to identity stuff. Though, if you wanna fuse two identities, they need to integrate the same emotions, memories and stuff, first. If you don't, they cannot "stick" together because they try to keep their "not-me" emotions and memories and stuff, away from them.

So, integrating means, making emotions and memories and stuff, part of the "me" of an alter. Like, tuning a piano or something. And if two alters wanna fuse, they need to be on the same "tune" first. So they need to be tuned separately first.

Getting lost in my metaphors maybe?

Okay if I just got in all directions, Dwelt will be able to correct / re-explain I guess.

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Hohenheim | Trisha | Urielle{Uriel|Theia} | X/Solomon/David/Scar | Ulysses | Lust | {Pride|Wrath} | {Zami} | Saul | Aragorn | Sherlock Holmes | Envy | {Isaïa|Reyna} ...

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