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Opposite Sex Insiders

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Opposite Sex Insiders

Postby complicated87 » Thu May 28, 2020 8:22 pm

I don't understand having insiders who think they are the opposite sex.

I don't know how to deal with that or have hope of integration when these parts won't accept the body because it is female. Won't let me dress appropriately. I also grew up with mysogony so the guys think they know better than the rest of us. They think the animals are better than females. I want integration....but I have my reasons why I don't agree with the insiders trying to be something we aren't. Just like the animals.

I'm so frustrated today. Just utterly irritated by myself. Trying to love myself but I just want people to quit fighting inside! The battle of the sexes is raging within!
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Re: Opposite Sex Insiders

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Fri May 29, 2020 3:40 am

complicated87 wrote:I don't understand having insiders who think they are the opposite sex.


Sounds like there's going to be a lot to learn about who they are and how to accept them. Gender doesn't have anything to do with which body parts you have. You identify as a woman but they don't; your definition of appropriate dress differs from theirs; and, sorry for pointing this out, but your post comes across as if you think you know better then them, which is exactly what you're accusing them of.

I'm sorry things are such a struggle right now, and I hope they improve for you all.
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Re: Opposite Sex Insiders

Postby complicated87 » Fri May 29, 2020 4:05 am

Haha don't be sorry for pointing that out. I appreciate you saying that.

I was letting someone vent today before all heck broke loose. Made contact and am possibly integrating with a very young traumatized part and it's thrown everyone into some type of chaos.

I think some parts are threatened by the sudden integrations that have been occurring that they'll lose their say....and integration and or new contact has happened with a butterfly, a tiger, and mostly the little girls and we're only a couple years into awareness.. . So the guys and the boys are kind of coming together and saying they will not give up their right to choose and won't be wearing skirts or hugging teddies anytime soon because they're hearing all of the trust talks with the little girls.

I have a lot of immature very young and angry parts that keep fighting over what 'we' are and how women and girls are weak and vulnerable (I'm sad they even have to feel that being fear is what made them a target.)

I kind of see the venters point in that the age of the body some things are not publicly acceptable ways to dress.......but she also struggled with being a young female and juggling the guys attraction to females it was one of the first real struggles in the early teens. She has just woken up with all the inside noise and she doesn't like feeling like she is a female attracted to females. So her coming off as better-than is a symptom of just being uncomfortable dealing with the guys thinking other females are attractive- when mostly everyone in the system identifies as straight....some lines do get crossed.

I'm glad it was me who came back to read your reply LOL....some mumbling going on nearby!


You make the good point that they will all need to get to better know one another and try to understand without judging.
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Re: Opposite Sex Insiders

Postby ArbreMonde » Fri May 29, 2020 10:57 am

Also, anybody can dress any way they want, it does not change their gender identity at all.

In here, some of our manlier men like to wear eye-liner sometimes. MANLY eye-liner, if you please.

It's okay that what makes them feel comfortable is different than what makes others feel comfortable. Everybody is different. Even two manly men are not exactly the same.

Because one likes to do something, it does not mean the whole system has to do it too. We take turns sharing time, or deciding on the make-up and hairdo, or deciding what to eat. If outside people notice we change things from day to day, we just say "I like to try different things" or "I like to change (type of clothes, hairdo...), it's fun". We're known as "an eccentric person" but also "very interesting" due to the changes.

And you know what? Personally, I like that. I like to share everybody's happiness as they get to do their stuff, put together an outfit they like, do the make-up that makes them happy, cook/eat the food they prefer, colord/draw/paint what they like in their own style. When people remark that we draw/paint something different or that we use a different technique, the answer is always something like "I wanted to try something new".

I feel like I've drifted away from the subject... Theia must be close / co-conscious with me.

Anyway. Gender-wise, well, I hope you'll find how to calm the situation within your system. The different genders exist because diversity is fun. Not because one is better than the others. We are all unique and worthy individuals and gender is one aspect of who we are. Because we are all unique, it's okay that we can have different genders within the same system. What's important is to find a balance between everybody.

I hope you will find it. You deserve it. To find the balance, within the system, within yourself/ves, and with the world.

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Re: Opposite Sex Insiders

Postby Zor » Sat May 30, 2020 5:48 pm

TheGangsAllHere wrote:
complicated87 wrote:I don't understand having insiders who think they are the opposite sex.


Sounds like there's going to be a lot to learn about who they are and how to accept them. Gender doesn't have anything to do with which body parts you have. You identify as a woman but they don't; your definition of appropriate dress differs from theirs; and, sorry for pointing this out, but your post comes across as if you think you know better then them, which is exactly what you're accusing them of.

I'm sorry things are such a struggle right now, and I hope they improve for you all.


So this is something I've struggled with, too... several in our system are female, our body is NOT. I was raised and grew up very traditional... so that was a shock. Finding myself randomly in a swimsuit (for a girl), in a skirt, or leggings... SERIOUS shock.

The thing is that you have consider that each part IS a separate person to a large degree, even if part of the same whole you are. They are EVERY BIT as unique and individual as you are- in full DID anyway, not sure for OSDD systems...

But the self-awareness inside is different than the body outside regardless of gender. Even same-gendered alters have dysphoria often... the body isn't them. It may be the same gender but it's NOT them. No different.

And as Gang says... Gender is not just physical. yes, THAT exists, body gender DOES exist and is what it is, but the mind can have totally different perceptions, too. Those aren't invalid, in anyone, much less an alter.

Best I can say is TRY and come up with a balance, an agreement, between you and the alters. It is hard in my home b/c my wife would FREAK seeing me in a skirt- and that's HOW she'd see it... heck even leggings... or a long sleeping t-shirt for bed... whatever.
Ideally, I'd love to let the girls wear what they will around the house, but for SAFETY reasons be more "neutral" or clearly male clothing outside the home.
But I'd even be ok with them wearing the underwear or swimsuits they want, IF they don't leave constantly and put ME out wearing, it of course. ;) LOL

It's a balancing act. You have to learn to accept them apart from yourself and let them explain their feelings, and validate their views, too. They are just as valid as you- and doing so will probably help soothe tensions or discordance inside the system. People feel more comfortable and at ease knowing they are respected and considered valid- that doesn't change in a system.
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Re: Opposite Sex Insiders

Postby complicated87 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:02 am

Zor - Sorry I missed your response!

I see how it could be even harder as a male dressing female! And dangerous in certain situations! And also probably a little harder to come to terms with given social constructs and ideas. As a female if I go without make up and wear a baggy t shirt and shorts I can still do it in a way that presents somewhat feminine-enough to be 'safe' from certain judgements....
I guess you could try a kilt. Haha. :)
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Re: Opposite Sex Insiders

Postby Sarandipity » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:07 am

This is how I see it: Every human has "male" and "female"
aspects to their personality. People without DID develop both these aspects into one overall person. In DID this doesn't happen and the aspects become very separate.

In my system one of the guys had a problem with female clothes so we spent Alot of time talking to crossdressers and pointing out to them (but really to ourselves) that clothes are just clothes. It's just how you cover the body.

Now that male alter is more concerned with looking nice in society dictated female clothes than other parts and one of our female alters likes to dress more like a boy which isn't a problem purely because society sees this as acceptable so we leave her to it.

Clothes are just clothes. Being male and in this situation is more difficult because society makes it difficult. I do feel for all guys who prefer "female" clothes because they come up against discrimination and judgement where as women do not.
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Re: Opposite Sex Insiders

Postby Zor » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:13 pm

TheGangsAllHere wrote:
complicated87 wrote:I don't understand having insiders who think they are the opposite sex.


Sounds like there's going to be a lot to learn about who they are and how to accept them. Gender doesn't have anything to do with which body parts you have. You identify as a woman but they don't; your definition of appropriate dress differs from theirs; and, sorry for pointing this out, but your post comes across as if you think you know better then them, which is exactly what you're accusing them of.

I'm sorry things are such a struggle right now, and I hope they improve for you all.


This is something I struggle with, too... several of us... many of us were very rigidly raised on that matter... and yet we've got girls... who feel odd "cross dressing" as guys, guys' clothes and underwear... they need and want girls clothes to FEEL like them.

It's weird, it's awkward... but the first thing that I learned is that they are NOT YOU. Letting them BE them, when they're out, is a good thing, it's ok. One of us, Angel, is rather... fluid. A guy, but perfectly comfortable being more feminine like, wearing skirts, dresses, tights, the works... just as comfortable as in jeans and a t-shirt...

As I said, though... He ISN'T me... The girls aren't ME. They are who THEY are... the mind and the body are NOT the same thing- they are not definitively linked... that's kind of the core of dissociation anyway... even if gender and gender identity WERE linked, it'd be different for dissociative identities anyway...

My advice would be to stop forcing yourself to think of them and you as the same... to stop thinking that what YOU feel and believe must be the same for them. Accept that they are and will do differently... and that's ok. You ARE different... they are different. That's ok. That's just part of who (as a whole collective) are... Start with the small thing, accepting each part for who and what they are... and the rest begins to fall into place.

-- Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:21 am --

Sarandipity wrote:Clothes are just clothes. Being male and in this situation is more difficult because society makes it difficult. I do feel for all guys who prefer "female" clothes because they come up against discrimination and judgement where as women do not.


I REALLY wish this wasn't so true... both the good AND bad of it.
Clothing IS just clothing... and girls can wear anythign... Pixie likes to joke that while she's uncomfortable in my clothes it's ok "cuz girls don't cross dress, we just dress in whatever we wanna."
Yet, for a guy to even look "a little feminine" is a scandal and he's savaged by people.

It IS a discrimination and a petty one.

Sometimes, probably due to the girls or Angel's presence in our system... even _I_ would be ok in something "less manly"... hell even a skirt maybe... IDK. But it's a shame society has been so rigidly dominated like that.

The good news, clothes are JUST clothes. The biggest lie we were ever told "the clothes make the man". That's BS. The CHARACTER OF THE PERSON does. Let clothing just BE clothing. Wear what makes you comfortable...
--
More thoughts on the OP:

For us, we're in that battle with my wife... she is NOT AT ALL willing to accept this... and trying to get little elements even is hard... and I fear that this rejection of this stems from rigid upbringing (and her own anti-feminine views and desires, ironically she wears mens jeans and shoes, doesn't own a skirt or dress) and rejection and hostility towards the rest of us (all but me in our system). So I totally sympathize with ppl struggling with this- but what WE'VE (system) compromised on is at home, when it's safe and private... not wearing a skirt or dress or leggings... whatever.. in public, where it'd be a problem or outright dangerous (and it COULD be where we live).

If you (OP'er) struggling with this idea... maybe try a similar compromise with your system, those that need/want these things- to do it in a private safe setting... and start small. Cute socks maybe? And work from there... baby steps to ease yourself along, in safe ways and settings, and showing them a willingness to let them BE themselves, too.

-------
EDIT- I also realize I'd already replied to this with many of the above... sorry... there's something here different, I'm sure... I really don't remember reading this and replying before... damn dissociative memory issues! LOL
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Re: Opposite Sex Insiders

Postby complicated87 » Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:53 pm

You both said so many good points I feel I don't have much to add.

I've been trying your suggestion about small things to wear just to give a nod to the others....

And yes clothing choices can actually put people in danger and I feel for you as a male in most societies in western culture you are more at risk. Although in other countries it could be just as dangerous for women.

We just have to be kind to ourselves and one another I guess and be the change we want to see. I love how children aren't afraid to ask someone why they do something before judging them.

I hope your partner can get used to your parts needs for expression. Not feeling safe to be yourself at at home (the way I grew up!) Is the worst in my opinion!!
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