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Can past alters re-invent themselves?

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Can past alters re-invent themselves?

Postby KitMcDaydream » Mon May 04, 2020 11:07 am

I am getting a feeling of 'another presence' or unidentified alter (UA) somewhere within.

I'm wondering is it possible that past alters could 're-invent themselves' so they appear more current with how life is right now? (so they can 'come out' again if the system has told them they aren't needed at this point in the bodies life).

or is it more likely to be a completely new alter that no-one in the system knows about?

My other theory was it maybe 'Daisy' experimenting with different versions of herself at different ages as she has shown to be able to appear at more than one age.

Not sure though how to seperate this UA from the thoughts, feelings, likes and dislikes of known alters to work out who they are?

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Re: Can past alters re-invent themselves?

Postby Amythyst » Mon May 04, 2020 12:28 pm

in our system it happens maybe alot?

sometimes its not intentional, like alters 'die' and then they return as different people. like reincarnation... they aren't the same person as before but there's some link or connection, between their previous self and th eir current self. also this seems to be a kinda 'slow' process, like it can take several months between the old alter goes away and the new one appears. tho there can be like, hints & stuff, feeligns of someone else in there, before the new one actually appears.

sometimes it is intentional, where they purposely reinvent themself. sometimes the new self knows who they were & stuff, like sometimes they intentionally remember who they were & stuff. other times they do not, & its effectively the same as if they died & then came back.

either way tho, its like, alter A is gone & no longer a part of our system, then alter B emerges / appears / whatever & we hafta figure out who they are, if they're 'new', or 'old but just waking up', or 'oh wait maybe they used to be A'

anyways... off the top of my head i can think of 5 times its happened for sure in our system.

good luck with your possibly new alter.

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Re: Can past alters re-invent themselves?

Postby Zor » Mon May 04, 2020 2:23 pm

I have heard from at least one other system that had their alters aging, too, but stuck in a sort of "loop" (their word)... where after a time, they'd get "too far" from who they were at first and revert back to the original age... not necessarily all at once, but just as it "felt right" or was needed.

This system DID say, too, that one of them no longer does that, generally supposing it had to do with dealing with that hurt and trauma enough to not NEED that old presence in that way, it wasn't "stuck" in that trauma time anymore.

Like anything else D.I.D., this is of course likely to be unique to their situation. For us, the rest of the system aged periodically, seemingly suddenly when things happened to need someone else, and if no one could handle it, someone else appeared. At a certain point, around body age 13, when the range of bad stuff stopped... they didn't really age until they "anchored" (unintentionally) their lives and the inner world to outside.
This, fwiw, was the beginning of a slow decade-long process towards the barriers between me (host) and them (all of us generally mostly unaware of how we all existed- I had NO IDEA AT ALL)...

So can they? Yeah... I've seen it in our system life history. Pixie & Angel were about my age when the first trauma happened at around 3 (my & body age)... a few years later the next happened and they were essentially the same age again suddenly- and this is when Kitten & Kaleb came about b/c Pixie and Angel weren't prepared or capable of coping any more than I was.

Later, as things arose... they'd "age forward" to more match what "should be" as new parts came in, sometimes younger (like Katya who aged less and is a little sister inside to Kaleb).

So that's a linear reinvention forward... and if that can happen, and per that other system I mentioned we'd talked to... I see no reason why they couldn't. It's about what the system NEEDS at the time, and if something is handled, or gone and no longer hurting, but there is something else... I don't think it'd be a surprise at all for a part of the system to take on a new role to handle that.
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Re: Can past alters re-invent themselves?

Postby KitMcDaydream » Mon May 04, 2020 5:45 pm

Thanks to all for answering.

so basically for everyone with a DID system as their physical life changes over the years the alters within will change too?

That would make sense for our system as often especially during the bodies younger years, there would only be one 'front' who dealt with everything social for a specific duration. eg Thea been the one who went to college and uni throughout the bodies late teens and twenties. 'Maddie' dealt with all the physio and medical appts related to the body needing a wheelchair at the time.

Personally I think if social media hadn't been introduced to us when we were trying to work out a way to cope with the new physical restrictions Maddie wouldn't have stayed around as long as she did. I guess the system felt greater social pressure then to stay as 'Maddie' as she became known much more widely than any other alter had, due to social media and her being part of community forums.

And whereas when we left uni and returned home Thea would disappear and another 'self' may develop if we then started work and moved to another area, we still occasionally find messages to Maddie's old inactive accounts (now several years after she 'left') trying to find out if the person they knew as 'Maddie' has died. To us, she has as she seems to have 'left the system'

one really big problem for us has been the real life friend of Maddie who insists on trying to continue the friendship wanting to continue to visit in real life too, but without Thea or Maddie present the one's left feel no connection to the person at all.

This has caused confusion as in comparison, no matter who was up front throughout the bodies life, the connection with parents, siblings and even pets have never been completely 'lost' in the same way after alters have switched.

Maybe this 'new alter' is the system's solution to solve that problem or to try and keep continuity with more alters 'coming out'?
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Re: Can past alters re-invent themselves?

Postby Zor » Mon May 04, 2020 10:07 pm

KitMcDaydream wrote:Personally I think if social media hadn't been introduced to us when we were trying to work out a way to cope with the new physical restrictions Maddie wouldn't have stayed around as long as she did. I guess the system felt greater social pressure then to stay as 'Maddie' as she became known much more widely than any other alter had, due to social media and her being part of community forums.



So I totally agree about social media. Had WE not had that to get involved with and get online through... to like meet ppl, make friends outside, etc.
IDK we woulda changed like we started to, like aging as like the world does, too.
In a sense it was something "lacking" in the inner world, and connecting outside kinda made it happen and made it like a requirement, but it was something we never considered or thought of... the time gaps and stuff just seemed "natural" to us cuz it was all we knew... but know that we do, I can totally see how that played a part in getting us to where we change and stuff.

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Re: Can past alters re-invent themselves?

Postby KitMcDaydream » Tue May 05, 2020 7:22 am

Hi Pixie

Sioux has also pointed out to me that the alters that are left only correspond to certain parts of the bodies life and because both myself (Kit) and Sioux existed way back in the 80's, quiet village life with the body having had autism and still been significantly behind emotionally, we then re-emerged in the bodies 40's to find life had changed drastically but we (initially) had no memories from the years in between.

Thea had the most advanced social skills as she was the one who had flourished as a deaf person, getting help from a specialist environment to catch up. She was the one who experienced work and university and actually managed to have a relationship (albeit very short) with another student that went beyond a very basic friendship. (if you know what I mean - trying to be careful not to accidentally include any triggers) - which leads me to another point.

Our system is of course autistic but had no knowledge we had this or that even DID existed until recently, I believed I was the 'real self' and the others were 'social masks'. But both Thea and Maddie also believed they were the real selves too when they were up front.

it was different for Sioux who first re-emerged after the system understood about DID, but again she had last been up front when the physical body was at secondary school! over 30 years ago!! :shock: so she had memories of our family as it was then and her 'best friend' from school, but not the 'friends/relationships' that had existed inbetween then and now.

I have the same issue, Daisy and Bobby are from even further back in time so none of us 4 who have been the main alters around the last couple of years have any memory of a relationship with this person or the people from social media demanding to know what happened to Maddie or when can they visit etc.

In a way its kinda like waking up from a coma with no memory of the people visiting you who are claiming to be your friends or family and it feeling really scary cos you don't know them and they're acting like they've known you all your life.

The system itself has no understanding of how to see things from other people's viewpoints either which is why to all of us why we don't imagine or know what alters do when they are inside or when it was their turn up front. This has left us all feeling very fragmented and confused and its only since we started doing a journal and reading each others entries we've developed an understanding of each other as 'real others' who also have feelings and thoughts.

I think the system maybe now realising they made a mistake there, keeping everyone very separate with no knowledge of each other or shared memories for years. Their solution was for one alter to be up front for years to maintain continuity until a change (such as a course ending, a new job elsewhere) gave an opportunity to switch if the alter was showing signs of exhaustion.

The sudden decline in the bodies physical ability in its 30's leaving us unable to just 'up sticks' and move house/jobs and the advent of social media left Maddie stuck 'in role' for years longer than any other alter had. Life changed so much in a way it made it impossible for us to get out and re-start elsewhere and I guess the system collapsed under the pressure?

Still not sure where this 'new presence' fits in and how they will help?

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Re: Can past alters re-invent themselves?

Postby ArbreMonde » Tue May 05, 2020 10:57 am

In here I can say that I evolved a lot over the years. Or maybe it was "not me" back then and I just inherited the memories? *shrugs*

A lot of us are fictive introjets. I can trace them back to long before the material they are introjected from, was invented and released. I guess that, because their "written by someone else story" started resonnating a LOT with most of us, they just ended up figuring out, the story was about them. So they ended up being the characters in the story, and "re-inventing" a backstory to explain how/why they are part of our system (e.g. they are dead and this is their afterlife, they were weak and needed a body to hide and ended up here, etc.)

Things still evolve. One day we might wake up and someone would be "before the system I had a long-time friend named so-and-so" and it would be retroactively true starting now. Because it makes sense to who they are now, to have had such-and-such friend before being in the system. Or they would suddenly remember such and such thing happened in the past, and even if it is not coherent with what they thought was their past the day before, starting now, that's what is true because that's what makes sense with who they are now.

And in the same time, Pride is stuck at 3 years old (waaay younger than in his "written by someone else story") because it has meaning for the system - and Wrath switches between 8 years old and his age in the "written by someone else story" depending on the situation. Here again, the 8 years old and his function when he is young, is different than the one he is when he is older, and it all has meaning and makes sense given what happened in the physical world in the life of the body.

We keep on rearranging and reinventing ourselves in order for everything to keep making sense. Apparently it's completely normal for memories to do that. It's just that us systems have much more freedom around this because we host many timelines and many lives, only one needs to remain coherent with the objective, physical events. All the others can be rearranged according to who we are.

--Zami--
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They/them: --Zami--
He/him: -X- or -David- | oOo van H. oOo | //Ulysses// | °Isaïa° | ((Wolf)) | {Envy} | #Uriel# | {Wrath} | .....
She/her: ~Theia~ | oOo Mrs. H. oOo | *Reyna* | ♥Lust♥ | .....

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Re: Can past alters re-invent themselves?

Postby KitMcDaydream » Tue May 05, 2020 11:39 am

ArbreMonde wrote:In here I can say that I evolved a lot over the years. Or maybe it was "not me" back then and I just inherited the memories? *shrugs*

A lot of us are fictive introjets. I can trace them back to long before the material they are introjected from, was invented and released. I guess that, because their "written by someone else story" started resonnating a LOT with most of us, they just ended up figuring out, the story was about them. So they ended up being the characters in the story, and "re-inventing" a backstory to explain how/why they are part of our system (e.g. they are dead and this is their afterlife, they were weak and needed a body to hide and ended up here, etc.)

Things still evolve. One day we might wake up and someone would be "before the system I had a long-time friend named so-and-so" and it would be retroactively true starting now. Because it makes sense to who they are now, to have had such-and-such friend before being in the system. Or they would suddenly remember such and such thing happened in the past, and even if it is not coherent with what they thought was their past the day before, starting now, that's what is true because that's what makes sense with who they are now.

And in the same time, Pride is stuck at 3 years old (waaay younger than in his "written by someone else story") because it has meaning for the system - and Wrath switches between 8 years old and his age in the "written by someone else story" depending on the situation. Here again, the 8 years old and his function when he is young, is different than the one he is when he is older, and it all has meaning and makes sense given what happened in the physical world in the life of the body.

We keep on rearranging and reinventing ourselves in order for everything to keep making sense. Apparently it's completely normal for memories to do that. It's just that us systems have much more freedom around this because we host many timelines and many lives, only one needs to remain coherent with the objective, physical events. All the others can be rearranged according to who we are.

--Zami--


Hi

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'fictive introjet' I got a bit lost in the description!..but I noticed in your signature line you mention being autistic too?

Do feel the dissociation comes from just being autistic and not being able to process the world the same as a non-autistic person? ..to help you be able to do 'normal things' like cope with going to school/work daily (if you do) or other things usually considered 'normal things to do' in life (when the whole country is not in a lockdown) eg travelling in public transport, socialising etc

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Re: Can past alters re-invent themselves?

Postby ArbreMonde » Tue May 05, 2020 11:49 am

Kit@KitMcDaydream wrote:I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'fictive introjet' I got a bit lost in the description!


Introjects are system members who are "copies" of persons from the outside. In the case of fictive introjects, they are "copies" of fictive characters (either from the main cast or coming from the fictive universe).

Kit@KitMcDaydream wrote:I noticed in your signature line you mention being autistic too?

Do feel the dissociation comes from just being autistic and not being able to process the world the same as a non-autistic person? ..to help you be able to do 'normal things' like cope with going to school/work daily (if you do) or other things usually considered 'normal things to do' in life (when the whole country is not in a lockdown) eg travelling in public transport, socialising etc


In my opinion, it's partly because of that, partly because of all the abuse and bullying I (as a body-person) went through. I guess the dissociation would have been less important had I not been autistic (because, less stress) - but so would the abuse. A LOT of the abuse/bullying focused on my autistic traits and behaviors, which increased the constant stress level, and lead to more dissociation.

--Zami--
Multiple system Dx autistic, depression, c-PTSD...

They/them: --Zami--
He/him: -X- or -David- | oOo van H. oOo | //Ulysses// | °Isaïa° | ((Wolf)) | {Envy} | #Uriel# | {Wrath} | .....
She/her: ~Theia~ | oOo Mrs. H. oOo | *Reyna* | ♥Lust♥ | .....

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Re: Can past alters re-invent themselves?

Postby KitMcDaydream » Tue May 05, 2020 1:55 pm

ArbreMonde wrote:
Introjects are system members who are "copies" of persons from the outside. In the case of fictive introjects, they are "copies" of fictive characters (either from the main cast or coming from the fictive universe).

Kit@KitMcDaydream wrote:I noticed in your signature line you mention being autistic too?

Do feel the dissociation comes from just being autistic and not being able to process the world the same as a non-autistic person? ..to help you be able to do 'normal things' like cope with going to school/work daily (if you do) or other things usually considered 'normal things to do' in life (when the whole country is not in a lockdown) eg travelling in public transport, socialising etc


In my opinion, it's partly because of that, partly because of all the abuse and bullying I (as a body-person) went through. I guess the dissociation would have been less important had I not been autistic (because, less stress) - but so would the abuse. A LOT of the abuse/bullying focused on my autistic traits and behaviors, which increased the constant stress level, and lead to more dissociation.



ah fictive= fictional like having a alter based on Spock from Star Trek or something..ok

I got bullied badly at school too. I was a late talker due to a severe stammer and other kids making me extremely self aware of it so developed selective mutism where I refused to speak out loud in class and public places for many years..well into adulthood.

I think actually having hearing problems for a period (after having acutely hypersensitive hearing for the first 16years) and being introduced to deaf kids and signing was almost like someone lighting up a path in a dark tunnel with signs...'come this way', 'get round this issue by learning to sign then you never have to speak in public again' which lead to the 'birth' of Thea. Moving away from home meant she stayed up front longer as I lived in residential with other students. I think by that age I was just happy to be accepted somewhere and not have to endure daily bullying anymore.

Somehow as the body physically aged and acquired more conditions more alters evolved to cope with each separate condition. The system seems to have over compartmentalised every set of symptoms assigning a different alter to deal with that issue. Maybe that's the autistic brain?

So now I understand what happened and why but don't know how to fix it and if we can ever go back to believing we are a single individual...maybe this new unidentified presence is the systems solution? They haven't introduced themselves yet!

but I know cos I (as Kit) used to block Maddie from knowing I existed when I used to 'slip up front' in secret to exercise the body (cos she wouldn't) that it should be possible in theory for the system to create a new alter who believed they were a regular 'single entity' whilst blocking all knowledge of the rest of us. ...just to see if the body or self can move forwards (mentally and emotionally - find new friends engage in life more again as 'themselves' etc).
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