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Denial or insanity?

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Denial or insanity?

Postby Sarandipity » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:11 pm

Might be a bit of a silly reaction, I don't know, to something simple. I was watching a TV show and it was emotionally moving. The guy was thanking his friends and family for the support they gave him. And I thought "what if I could be saying that" Then I thought "maybe I'm so insane that actually I do have a nice supportive family and this is all in my head and that's how actually insane I am"

It's messing with my mind and I'm seriously thinking maybe I am insane enough and always have been since around age 8 when Karen first made herself known in my head and didn't want to play with a girl called Karen at school because she had the same name as her. Maybe I've been insane my whole life and everything is made up and really there's nothing wrong with my family. Or this how I go into comfortable denial or I am actually insane, so insane I seem sane except for when my family trigger me to go to hospital which is my own fault because I've always been insane. It's just going round and round. I wish I could stand up and thank people for their support. Maybe I'm insane and that's why I can't rather than it's that my family are abusive. Or maybe being that insane seems preferably. Or maybe I'm insane. Round and round. Just because I felt emotional about a tv character guy who could thank his friends and family for supporting him which is insane in it's self, something so small causing such turmoil.
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Re: Denial or insanity?

Postby myce » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:45 pm

Holy gaslight. I can see why that would be triggering. But you're not insane, your home environment was insane. You've been working very hard to be better than the way you were raised. I appreciate your work here.
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Re: Denial or insanity?

Postby andiKirkwood » Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:08 am

Sarandipity wrote:Might be a bit of a silly reaction, I don't know, to something simple. I was watching a TV show and it was emotionally moving. The guy was thanking his friends and family for the support they gave him. And I thought "what if I could be saying that" Then I thought "maybe I'm so insane that actually I do have a nice supportive family and this is all in my head and that's how actually insane I am"

It's messing with my mind and I'm seriously thinking maybe I am insane enough and always have been since around age 8 when Karen first made herself known in my head and didn't want to play with a girl called Karen at school because she had the same name as her. Maybe I've been insane my whole life and everything is made up and really there's nothing wrong with my family. Or this how I go into comfortable denial or I am actually insane, so insane I seem sane except for when my family trigger me to go to hospital which is my own fault because I've always been insane. It's just going round and round. I wish I could stand up and thank people for their support. Maybe I'm insane and that's why I can't rather than it's that my family are abusive. Or maybe being that insane seems preferably. Or maybe I'm insane. Round and round. Just because I felt emotional about a tv character guy who could thank his friends and family for supporting him which is insane in it's self, something so small causing such turmoil.

yous not insane familys just that way sometimes. sometimes they fight and not supportive an sometimes they lots supportive, Tv makes me sad some cause it show things weird all fight or no fight not many tv shows show both at same time.
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Re: Denial or insanity?

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:38 am

Sarandipity wrote:Might be a bit of a silly reaction, I don't know, to something simple. I was watching a TV show and it was emotionally moving. The guy was thanking his friends and family for the support they gave him. And I thought "what if I could be saying that" Then I thought "maybe I'm so insane that actually I do have a nice supportive family and this is all in my head and that's how actually insane I am"


You were recognizing what true emotional support is--how someone feels when they've gotten it. The fact that you don't feel that way about your family is the proof that they didn't provide it.

I had a big realization recently. I saw a father and young teen daughter looking at photos on his phone, and then she turned and looked into his face, and they were sharing a warm, loving moment. And I thought, my parents have never looked at me that way. They've never looked at me the way my T looks at me, with warm, caring interest and support. They would swear up and down that they "love" me, but what love means to them is not what love really is.

When they say they love me, it's more about how it makes them feel--it's a self-involved feeling, not an appreciation of me as a separate person. If I do something they say they're proud of, they take some kind of credit for it--they produced me, so anything good that I do somehow means something good about them. And I can contrast it with people who do really care about me--who are happy for me when I'm pleased about something I accomplished.

Until less than a week ago, I still thought that there was something wrong with me that I couldn't feel love from my parents or toward them, because "of course" they must love me because they always said so. And I felt bad about having minimal contact with them--because wasn't that causing hurt to people who love me? But they don't. It's not something wrong with me--it's that they couldn't provide the kind of care and caring that would have resulted in me feeling loved by them and feeling loving toward them.

So, the good news is that you're not "insane," but the bad news is that you don't have a nice, supportive family.
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Re: Denial or insanity?

Postby ArbreMonde » Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:53 am

I feel the same sometimes. The gaslight has been heavy on me too, parents repeating that I was a liar and that they loved me and that I was the one making them suffer and all sorts of things. I doubted my sanity too. A lot. Thought that I was all making it up, since the whole family was telling me I was making things up.

But, the facts are: I have all signs of having suffered from abuse and gaslight. And so do you. So, of course it hurts, to feel by proxy all the love and support you were denied. Of course it feels like you are missing something you will never have.

Mourning what you will never have is a strange thing to do. Accepting that you never had and never will have a supportive family outside of the system is very tough.

But, I guess that all victims of abuse feel the way you do at least once in their life. So, you are not insane. Just, doing your best to process the emotions of grief and loss.

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Re: Denial or insanity?

Postby IainEtc » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:10 am

Hi,

Denial or insanity? Are those the only two options?

How about - There's nothing wrong with you? (Not nothing hurting - just nothing wrong/bad/F-ed up.) Being multiple means something bad happened TO you - not you're bad.

Iain

Oh and you can always thank us for our support - if it makes you feel better.
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When they say 'be yourself',
which one do they mean?
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Re: Denial or insanity?

Postby Sarandipity » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:23 am

Thanks all of you for your replies. And thanks to Myce who said "Stockholm syndrome" on Rives post.

Even after the initial emotional upset I was intellectually considering "what if I'm so mad I've flipped full circle and seem sane" is that possible? Is that the answer of how I am how I am? Do I have bipolar or one of the other disorders I've been labelled with over the years and although I don't have most symptoms of those occasionally I have some symptoms of all of those other disorders in a massive intense break from reality and that why I am how I am and then within days I'm absolutely fine again and symptom free except for the personalities and memory loss which is just my own made up insanity, so insane I've flipped to presenting as ok except for my personal struggle with alters which is not relavent because I'm not doing anything to warrant hospital admission.

But the most logical explanation is the most likely. I wasn't treated well and when Myce said Stockholm syndrome, which I have said to countless other people when they are talking about love with past abusers I realised I was most likely being so blind to my own situation that I couldn't see it clearly.

What Gang said about seeing warm looks I can also relate to. Again it was in a film I was watching where there was genuine care I felt a why. I have seen closer to those warm looks from my step parents, never my parents. The closest the parents got to warm looks was misunderstanding and pity looks. Looking at me like they don't understand me and feel sorry for me. Which to treat someone how they treated me and then mostly I get on with life and was pleasant to them must of been mind boggling. Looking back I see they walked on egg shells. I have parts who will argue with people and stand up for whatever they think is right regardless of consequences or ridicule so the eggshells makes sense. Every relationship I had they didn't like it, mocked it which I now recognise fully is some sort of twisted jealousy - which makes me feel sick and sad.

A couple of weeks ago I watched this woman with DID in Australia and how she brought her father to justice and I'm ashamed to say I thought "what if it was in her head and her father eventually admitted it for reasons other than he did it" and now I realise I was projecting my own doubts about myself onto her. The fragment memories Paul connected with are really messed up and as much as I said to myself and all parts agreed "we are believing them" it was still easier and more palatable to think I am insane and some part of my brain is making it up. But they relate to things I know already from talking in psychotherapy ten years ago, being bitten by dog, sleeping sitting up in the toilet, hiding in the toilet, a cigar box that as a teenager I stole which if I was analysing myself I'd say it was reliving the initial event but achieving a different outcome but it's not so easy with self. It's easier to simply say I was a horrible teenager. It's the things that happened to me that are crazy, unbelievable and how I then tried over the years to make it into a good relationship - that's crazy. Even by own standards it's crazy to keep trying to make a relationship with abusers better and I should of shunned them immediately. But I didn't have all the information available which again sounds crazy until realising trauma gets blocked from the mind but even then there is doubt in me. Doubt I was trying to suppress in an attempt to not go backwards and end up in hospital but I think I need to embrace the doubt to see what's there not project it onto others.

There are parts of me that get very embarrassed, they tried to stop me typing this, I kept loosing this thought. I couldn't afford embarrassment as a child so I am the opposite of embarrassment usually outwardly but it's there - an embarrassment at having horrible parents, not having what other people have. There's shame but embarrassment is different to shame. Embarrassment is social, not fitting in. I felt a twang of wanting to lie at work when people mentioned their parents at Christmas but I don't lie so I said nothing. That's the other thing I avoid lieing, abhore it, because my parents were liars about their whole lives, about my life and my sister's life - everything was a front. So I don't lie but now I'm worried I supressed lieing and these fragment memories are lies but that feels like a lie in it's self. I don't believe intrinsically at my core, so to speak, I would make up such fantastical sick lies about people I have far more investment in being good people than I do in them being what they were or are.

I tell the truth on other things so why wouldn't I on this. Especially I tell the truth if I was in the wrong, even to my children about the relationship with their father - which alot of people strangely lie about things like this - he has NPD and when it got bad I threw things at him, I just tell the children the truth, I don't leave out my bad behaviour to somehow seem better than him or to make them not like him. I tell them he has NPD so be aware of that but he's your dad and I wasn't perfect because I did throw things at him when he got to me which was wrong and nobody wants to grow up with that so I split up with him before you became aware of it and hated him. Strangely I don't care if my children hate me which again is a severe attachment signals or to do with having things I loved taken from me as a child. I realised some years ago, when I got attached to a friend and lost her, that it's ok to attach and love and then loose that. So I had to let go of fear over that to attach to the friend but I don't have this fighting for a relationship idea that others seem to have when they brainwash children to their favour. That'd be far too triggering for me anyway. Accidentally my children sometimes seem quite jealous but I don't know if that's a naturally level of jealousy or my fault because I supress jealousy so much and they accidentally take it on. They used to get fiercely jealous of other kids and I'd say "worry about what you have not what other people have" I didn't know what else to say, I was so in my own world as a child that other children didn't really register to me to feel jealous so I didn't know how to help them or if it was even normal to be jealous of others or not. It's like I walked in the dark avoiding doing anything my parents did, listening to parenting classes and guessing the whole way so when people say "your children are lovely" I think and say "it's their character, nothing to do with me, they're just like this" and then the person says "you brought them up" and I think "why are you trying to make me over identify with my children's success or being" but I don't say that, it just gets uncomfortable and I have to reason in my own mind that the sayer doesn't have odd alteria motives.

I intrinsically think everyone has other subconscious or conscious or odd alteria motives for everything. Because my childhood was a string of two people having constant alteria motives and excuses for terrible behaviour. It's saved me in relationships with narcissists because they do things out of spite and manipulation so I would call them out on it but it's not a great way to live life, it's necessary if you live with someone who will f with you and I'm not used to living with anyone who won't. I like to live without it, being manipulated and gaslighted - I love it - but I can't turn off "what's the alteria motives" although sometimes I can so maybe it only does turn on in suspicious circumstances.

Sorry I have gone into a long self analysis. Thank you again for responding. The replies gave me alot to consider.

Also at the time I thought "this might be how Rive feels" when she goes round and round in circles. I pick things apart, intellectualise them, take one point and analyse it detached from it as if it's someone else's. Read and take things in and consider those views. Like Ian is right that it doesn't have to be either or. Gang is right that it's visible all around that others have loving exchange. Myce is right, I'm gaslighting myself in my parents absence, Abremonde pointed out alot of people who are abused feel like this. I can take all that on and dissect my spiral. Rive doesn't and I think it's because she can't or has less capacity to, I think she has some capacity to but not always and that's due to her learning problems perhaps. But anyway in that circular thought of "what if.." I thought maybe this is how Rive gets stuck in an emotional spiral, it is like a whirlpool and hard to escape. For days I've said "maybe I'm just so crazy I've flipped all the way round to sane" - in a joke way to people but I wasn't joking I was considering it.
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