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Multiplicity as the end goal?

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Multiplicity as the end goal?

Postby MeMyselfMaureen » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:03 am

So the week we left my T told me that he had told the social services that he was perfectly happy for me to function multiply. That me having multiple personalities SHOULD NOT be classed as a risk factor to our daughter.
He also said that even though I have sheaves of letters between him and my doctor describing my DID to some detail he said contrary to what I had been led to believe I don't have a DX, he refuses to officially diagnose me as DID because in my case "it is not a disorder but a logical and reasonable reaction to your upbringing. To officially diagnose you would be to indicate that you were somehow disordered or malfunctioning or wrong to be organised this way. For you NOT to have developed multiplicity would have been disordered."

I am now totaly confused. Up until that week he has always talked about intergration... was that just because in the old domestic situation intergration at any cost was the only safe option?

Since leaving we have stabalised. No more microswitching leaving everyone disorientated. We have a visual comunications chore board so everyone knows what has been done and what needs to be done in a day. Grace no longer hosts as such. We share the home life evenly, though grace tends to hog public life still, Peter and I are able to demand us time and Grace acepts that we need to get out of the house too. Mentaly we are getting better too. The extra time out and away from memories has made Peter happier and me less angry.

So all in all life outside is more fairly shared, it is organised, and what with moving to a new area we are all starting from scratch. I happened to make friends with a lass who it turns out had made friends with grace the week before. She was so laid back about it... her only question was "so when I introduce you to my friends is it as grace or maureen?"

At the moment we are focusing on simply being functional. And to be functional you need to be comfortable right? One of the concesions we made early after the flit was to have our hair cut so when peter is out he doesnt have to constantly brush back "girly hair". Grace got herself a wig cos she likes long hair. We are slowly acumulating seperate wardrobes - not intentionaly we left home with just the shirt on our back so we had to buy new clothes, thing is finances are tight so we have had to buy clothes peicemeal and what with us all having different tastes whoever was out got to choose ....

Thing is I don't see the point of intergration anymore. Granted we will have to cooperate and act "as one" on big life decisions like where to live, what job we get.... but the small stuff why can't we live that individually? Why can't I join an art class and grace join the local orchestra and peter join the swimming club? Why cant we cook diferent foods for different tastes? Yesterday we went to the catholic service for grace and then I walked to the free kirk for a service for me. (The priest did NOT like me covorting with heathens - sod him why should only one of us have our spiritual needs met.) As long as we are carefull about finances and schedualing time why cant we become a succesfull multiple? I mean peter has skills I dont, he has a relationship with our daughter that is on a different level to mine and graces. If he is forced to stay inside "for continuity" as has been sugested to us he will lose that relationship and we will lose those skills. Why should someone outside arbitrarilaly pick which one of us gets to live life?

We dont have an internal world to go to all we have is nightmares. I was switched off once. I lost 10 years of my life I dont want to lose my life again.

I came across these guys and I am wondering is what they are advocating posible? Can there be a healthy multiplicity? http://www.healthymultiplicity.com/

Mo
Grace (host) Mo (protector) Peter (child) Elspeth (child) Midnight (unkown) Shadow (fragment, grief holder, toddler) Aegipan (goatbeing - the ultimate solution) Christopher (faith, caretaker)
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Re: Multiplicity as the end goal?

Postby ArbreMonde » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:53 am

From what I know, there are a ton of healthy multiples, who never were diagnosed because they never had any issue with being multiple. It is what happened with our friends Team PSI. We are not diagnosed multiple either, thanks to PSI's folks help in getting organized. (as well as our instinctive way of writing planning everything to compensate for "bad memory" (time loss)...)

There is a similar issue in the "gifted" community: a lot of people write books about how being gifted makes someone suffer - but they forget that there are a lot of "undiagnosed" gifted people who never get "diagnosed" because they do not suffer from it. Same goes with autistic people. A lot go "undiagnosed" most of their lives because they find ways to mask and to compensate. Myself, had I not met autistic people who kept telling me "gosh your way of being is so autistic" never would have I pursued diagnosis and I would still be labelled as "simply" suffring from social phobia and PTSD.

You can be atypical and live a balanced life, as long as you have the ressources to balance your life. A human cannot breath underwater but can wear a diving suit. You found your metaphorical diving suit. There is no need to metaphorically label you as "unable to dive".

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Re: Multiplicity as the end goal?

Postby Amythyst » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:00 am

Hey Mo,

Our goal has always been 'healthy multiplicity'. We have never wanted fusion / integration, and we've been upfront about that with both the therapists we've seen.

Our feeling is, the things which cause us problems and make this a 'disorder' are mostly the PTSD symptoms. Eg. the flashbacks & trauma responses & stuff like that. Just 'being plural' is not a disorder, its just another way of being.

And if you go by the DSM-5, being multiple is only a diagnosable disorder if it causes distress or impairment. If being multiple does not cause you 'significant distress or impairment' then its not a disorder / you don't have DID.

Good luck.

Viola & team Amythyst
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Re: Multiplicity as the end goal?

Postby IainEtc » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:11 am

Hi Mo,

You guys are terrific! Great work!

Iain
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When they say 'be yourself',
which one do they mean?
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Re: Multiplicity as the end goal?

Postby SOHank » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:30 pm

What Iain said x2. :D

I think that healthy/cooperative multiplicity is a good thing.

When I first started learning about DID after SF’s Dx, I thought the goal was full integration/fusion, and honestly so did SF. Before I learned more, I assumed DID was like the proverbial teacup and once broke, you just glue it back together. :roll: I’ve learned a lot since then. :wink:

At this point, full integration is a potential goal on a list of goals. I’ve shared with them that to me the most important thing is to build a team that can work together internally and externally and that itself would be a win. Anything beyond that is entirely up to them, but if there is integration, all parties have be in agreement, it will not be forced.

Similar to what you mention, several of them have mellowed out a bit as they get more time out. Still unique, but less anger, less fear, more happiness, fewer memory blanks, and better alignment with each other. Part of that means it is harder for me to tell them apart. For example B., Meg, SF, and AJ were all working together to clean yesterday and I did not know it until I asked to talk to AJ about something and she told me about the arrangement.
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Re: Multiplicity as the end goal?

Postby SystemFlo » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:38 pm

Well, what T said about your DID applies to all people with DID. It's mental injury, not an actual illness, although officially there is no such category in psychiatry. There should be tho.

Fusion kind of integration doesn't happen just like that. There is no reason why you should somehow avoid treatment that has that as a goal. You start with co-operation anyway. And co-consciousness. You do trauma work. If at some point being co-con all the time feels more natural than being apart, why would you stop it from happening and knowingly keep parts separate from each other or knowingly try to stop you from being more and more co-conscious. It's only gonna help you.

Fusion does not mean only some of you will be out and one needs to stay in and their traits would just go away magically or by force. Nobody knows what would be in the one person you'd be, if you one day will be one. Forcing that is wrong, but avoiding that makes no sense either. More close yo can be, that much better and easier your life will be.

We try to get as close as we can, but because gender issue is too big, we need to be separate in that. I won't allow my body be forced to boys who do not wanna identify with it, or who get self destructive and harm outside body when that is even talked about. For us it's clear they can not do that, I'd never force them, it's not even safe as long as they are not ready. Maybe they can be helped to the point where they will be, maybe not. Dysphoria is awful, there's no point in creating that knowingly, it only harms us. If they never can do that, then we never integrate fully, because everyone views their own body different way, and only for me it's the one outside.

The goal is get everyone live outside as much as possible, and in perfect situation all together and at the same time. To me that goal is only a good thing, I hope they could be here all the time too. For them it's more complicated, so much of what makes life worth living for them can only be internal. We try to have things outside that would make it more desirable for them to stay in here, but it's not easy when we're so different. That's why, for it to happen, we too need to live openly as a multiple for people who are close to us. But that is what we do to create things that one day could allow full integration to happen.

Forcing parts that are very different to live so that they form an illusion of continuity that is not really in there is not integrative action in my opinion. If all agree that is everyone's together goal, then that's a different thing. I just don't see that having different kind of clothes etc. would be somehow against integration. If that allows you to get along better, then it's more integrative then separating.

It's not the way you behave that tells you is it about integration and co-operation or bout forcing someone against their will. If it makes co-live more or less easy is how you tell that. Everything that makes it more easy is integrating. And there's no reason to resist that.

To me it does not make any sense we would need to try to decide beforehand if we wanna head for fusion or not. It's like asking from a two year old who are they gonna marry and how many kids they'll want and take it seriously, like they'd be able to know what they want when they are very different person in future and only after many years ready to understand what it even means. Of course you wanna be separate now, it's not even safe to be anything else, because you aren't multiple without reason and the reasons have not been cured. If someone could suddenly remove all dissociative walls from your mind, you'd crash. But it's no reason to stop you from being co-con when you can.

I just don't think people should settle. There are parts that are holding trauma and suffering, if you are aware of it or not. It's easy to not care about it, if you are lucky and one of the people who are not aware, and who do not have problems because they're multiple. It just means it's some other part who holds that hardness for you in so deep you don't feel the symptoms all the way up here. You need to be loyal to the whole system, and that includes parts you can't find by yourself, because it will not be safe enough for them like that. That's why I'm not keen on "I don't need therapy" people. DID is severe trauma, not just other way of being. Systems who only celebrate for their multiplicity do it at the expense of other parts. Our system ethics are just build that way, we can't see that being right.

I know that it's not possible personally for you right now to have more therapy, and there are lot of people who don't have that. I'm not accusing you or those people who can't help their situation right now. I mean that as a long term plan.

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Re: Multiplicity as the end goal?

Postby Johnny-Jack » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:16 pm

Floralie wrote:Well, what T said about your DID applies to all people with DID. It's mental injury, not an actual illness, although officially there is no such category in psychiatry. There should be tho.

I love the phrase mental injury, Floralie. I generally do feel we're "broken" -- though many broken things can still be functional and valuable! And by broken I mean something like chipped or dented rather than shattered and useless. But "I have a mental illness" has never felt like a fully accurate statement. Thanks so much. Beautiful!

I have my doubts it's possible at this point in our life to integrate fully. There is so much trauma held by so many of us and therapy is, for us, rather plodding and not fast.

Awareness that we have DID started a mutual cooperation and coordination that has increased to such an extent that we're unlikely to have the major crashes and breakdowns we used to.

As for anyone, integration can't and won't happen until specifics alters involved decide that's what they want. We do expect this will happen for some of us and we feel it's likely that our adopted son, in his mid-20s, may integrate. But that's up to them.
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Re: Multiplicity as the end goal?

Postby MeMyselfMaureen » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:44 pm

Hi Florrelle
Thought I'd just clarify. I'm not saying hey look at us we are fine. I know there is trauma. There is a whole $#%^ storm of trauma. When Peter was accused of only coming out because he was bored and wanted to play Peter broke down in tears. He comes out to escape the trauma that he relives every day that he is inside. Same for me. If I am inside I relive over an over again ever single suicide attempt that I have aborted, every battering I have recieved trying to stand up to abusers. Every doubting face and snearing comment from people who refused to believe the truth about the abuse when I told them.

Elspeth shared some trauma with us and we nearly lost it, lost touch with reality, if shadow hadn't chosen that moment to reach out to us this body would be locked up in lala land. It was the will power of a 2 year old fragment that brought us concious again. Peters last conversation with T was to say catagoricaly that he will not be sharing his trauma with the rest of the system. He pleaded with the T to be allowed to share his trauma with an outside person
I tellin him when I talkin to an outside person I got to be movin my mouf so I can still find my way back when the memory finished but when I lookin at stuff I not just lookin I am that stuff. If I just talkin to inside people there nofin to stop me being stuck in the bad stuff forever I not findin my way back. Elspeth memory made us all porly for long time an she not got the same type of bad I got if her memories maake the others porly my memory gonna make them stuck forever maybe die. I dont want no one else havin my bad fings hapnin to them. You outside people just hearin words on a inside when we sharin we there it happenin an you sayin it all a long time ago dont stop it from actually hapnin so we can feel it an smell it an taste it

What I am asking is do you need intergration to heal? I mean living life, building postative memories has been far more theraputic than anything we have tried so far. With the T we were being encouraged to intergrate and whenever trauma came up the answer was "we need to work on getting you closer together once those walls come down you can share your trauma internally and it wont be so bad." as if forcing us into one cohesive identity with access to ALL the trauma at once would some how cure us of the effects of said trauma.....

Thanks Zami, Ian, Viola and SOHank
Grace (host) Mo (protector) Peter (child) Elspeth (child) Midnight (unkown) Shadow (fragment, grief holder, toddler) Aegipan (goatbeing - the ultimate solution) Christopher (faith, caretaker)
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Re: Multiplicity as the end goal?

Postby Sarandipity » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:15 pm

Replying to original post.

I get where your therapist is coming from about how your brain works, the DID, is a reasonable reaction to trauma, I feel similarly but at the same time don't want my brain to be like this. It's bothering me alot at the moment even though I'm living ok but that's a whole other thing.

With proffessionals they don't like to diagnose anything unless it's causing a person problems. So now it isn't causing problems I can see how they think it's ok to not diagnose, point out you're ok and leave well alone (so to speak).

I took this attitude towards myself for many years. I knew I didn't have schitzophrenia or bipolar and as long as I was managing with "my different states of being" (that's what I called it) and living my life then I wasn't interested in seeking a diagnosis even when I got the right word "dissociative" during psychotherapy ten years ago. I thought "most of the time I live well, without medication, without hospital, without therapy so I don't want to draw attention to myself arguing for a diagnosis that probably won't make any difference anyway" That's how I used to see it.

Now I see it as even though I'm "ok" at the moment I still need help. I'm not ok because my mental health is better, I'm ok because I've just had a crisis and the alters who are currently present or near the front are incredibly good at dealing with a crisis. There's all the usual alters inside emotionally in pieces and they need help regardless of me functioning well. To help them I need a diagnosis and I need specialist therapy.

If I left things as they are there will be another crisis. It could be in years but that doesn't mean those parts of me haven't suffered for those years internally between now and the next crisis. It just means my DID is doing what it was made to do in the first place, letting me survive and appear to be ok. Even if I never had another crisis till the day I die it would still mean those parts are suffering, I'm not whole (because those suffering parts are out of reach not talking about integration necessarily) and I'm simply surviving rather than living or thriving. It's not good enough for me anymore.

It did used to be good enough because I was so terrified of finding the root cause of it all I'd rather live as best I can and not face whatever the root cause of it is. But because of a few fragment memories Paul shared with everyone, he doesn't hold prisoners he's not like the twins or the overlord and motivated to hide things he's motivated by overall good and if that's harsh then it's tough, the tip of the iceberg of the worst has been faced and there's no going back from that now. A couple of parts tried to go back, Rose did, it didn't work. So now that fear is basically forced into being overcome I can see that although my system serves me well as an overall human being my system needs help, I need help. It won't come easy, they don't like to diagnose DID, they offered me BPD instead of the bipolar, they gave me bipolar instead of schitzophrenia but it's time to stop just letting things happen and argue for what I need instead of just getting what I'm given.

So I understand how they consider your diagnosis now unnecessary. I can see how they can argue it's not an illness. It does however need time and place to heal which is why I think fighting for a diagnosis and specialist treatment is what's best (for me) now because I'm ready. If you feel ready then argue for it too imo.

Much luck
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Re: Multiplicity as the end goal?

Postby SystemFlo » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:14 pm

Thanks Johnny-Jack, but it's not my credit.. I heard the term from channel DissociaDID, and liked it a lot and am using it because of that. It explains things well to me too. I don't know were they the one(s) who came up with the word, or did they heard it from somewhere too, but I don't think spreading it does any harm to anyone.

MeMyselfMaureen, my whole post was not meant to answer straight to you personally, but to talk about the integration stuff overall more widely, I'm sorry if what I said hurt you. I was not meaning you or anyway to hurt you. I find English hard to use, because "you" means one person, several people and no people at all, all in same word. When I talked about systems who only celebrate, it was meant to be in passive, "you" like anyone or no one. Do you understand what I mean. I don't know if it's called passive in English, it's straight translation from my native language. I should've used "one" instead of "you" to make it more clear, but I didn't see myself it came out unclear, because I of course knew what I meant and saw it like that when I checked it before posting.

I know you have been living in trauma all the time, and probably still are and that's alone puts you in very different place than where we are. That's not a place to process old trauma stuff yet at all, when outside there's big changes. What was said about trauma, that sharing it will cure it is NOT true. Trauma causes a lot, not just multiplicity but also all kind of thinking patterns and beliefs about yourself etc that are not truthful, and it all needs to be processed with a T, not just be remembered by the system. You have DID because you can not handle everyone knowing all trauma, you needed to became multiple to avoid it from happening. Sharing it now would make it all useless, it would hammer down walls that are there for safety. They're NOT supposed to be just crushed, but to lower because you learn how to handle things and deal with stuff over time. You haven't had that time, it means time healing, and you have lived in trauma.

Our therapy time is limited, and it's not likely for us to be able to integrate. Can we still be happy? We are as happy as we can be, because that's how things are and that's how you live with them when they are certain way. Unlimited support and therapy would be better option, but we don't have that. You can do things to get more happy when you live as a multiple, and that's what you do unless you fuse which is not likely. Living as a multiple with knowledge how to make a life better like that, is happier life than when you live as a multiple without that knowledge, so sure, it can be a lot better than it was before. I think the question about if it's enough is something everyone has to answer themselves, and system may not agree about that. But if that's what you have, you just make best out of it.

I'm sorry Peter that inside you live in bad place. We have parts that do too. Every part like you deserves help from outside adult who knows how to make it more real to you that it's not happening anymore, and knows how to get rid of it happening all the time inside. It's not your fault it doesn't feel like it's over to you, because inside it's not over. Because of parts exactly like you, I think everyone who has DID needs to have therapy to help parts like you, if that is possible. Even if they don't know they have littles inside trapped in bad memories I still think they owe that to them. All big ones in all systems do not know they live in same system than littles who still suffer. In real DID therapy you don't have to tell everything to everyone else who live there with you if you don't want to, you can tell it all to an outside adult and adult helps you, and that adult helps everyone else too. It takes time, but I really much hope you can have therapy like that one day, or that big ones can help you remember outside and how that's what's real now, also when you're inside. But right now they do not know how, they would do that if they knew. I don't know how to help either, I would help too if I could. I do know you are very brave, and you deserve help and happy things, not bad things at all. You aren't meant to feel bad, but play and be happy and be safe.
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