Our partner

Amnesia and system mapping

Dissociative Identity Disorder message board, open discussion, and online support group.

Moderators: Violarules, Johnny-Jack

Amnesia and system mapping

Postby WeAreOne420 » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:28 pm

Hey guys.

I'm trying to map my system and I'm having a hard time and need some advice.



Here's my issue.

If an alter lter isn't up (I'm co-con with most of my alts. most of the time ...) The moment they float away from me ( dissociate against their willdue to a trigger) they forget they exist almost . like they just can't feel themselves. I can't feel them and all their emotions and memories leave with them.... Until they're triggered back.

So it becomes very difficult to map people who don't know who they are or can't be remembered.

They only way i know who they are is when they're up and its like omg I remember me now! I remember this! And this is my.personality.
Where have I been?!

Its..scary and frustrating.

I'm not that great at explaining things but that's what I'm dealing with.
How can I map this exactly?

And is what I'm explaining amnesia?
WeAreOne420
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:56 pm
Local time: Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)


ADVERTISEMENT

Re: Amnesia and system mapping

Postby Sarandipity » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:44 pm

That's exactly what it was like when No-one made came back and Paul. Once they were back I remembered them from start to finish. I remembered Paul as a kid, that No-one was an alter. Paul had quietly been around in the background I realised because somebody kept saying "you're No-one" which once No-one was back and Paul made himself known after the recent crisis I realised that's how he used to get No-one to take over the body - they're friends and Paul isn't good in the body for long periods alone. I had forgotten all about them till they came back and made themselves known. But once back it was like a person I'd forgotten about but knew really well so I get what you're saying.

I don't forget them once they're not in the body though. Here helped because they wrote here and named it. Alters writing helps them stay remembered. Karen and Beth were pretty much always remembered because of being main fronts as a child and also whilst with my husband. But the others were not long stayers in the body so them not being around made them easy to forget.

This time I'm making myself remember everyone. The more attention I am giving them in thought the easier they are to reach. I even managed to talk to the overlord earlier when I was in the bath. He presented himself as a Victorian Lawyer but I asked him to present himself not diguised and first off he was me as a toddler, I said you don't need to do that, and he took his form as a very old vampire shapeshifter which is what I have been told by others is his preferred natural form - how you get the most sense out of him instead of talking to a persona he's created for the specific conversation you want to have.

So from what I've learnt over the years it's very easy to forget alters but if you make the effort to remember them they do become easier to reach. I keep being very aware of two early teen girls in my system who were around briefly after the crisis, very anxious but very sweet and kind. I think of them so I remember they are in there somewhere. Literally I focus on remembering parts even if it's just what I know about them as told by other parts. I didn't expect the overlord to respond to me at all but when he did it was very informative not just the question I wanted to ask him but he explained that the system has three deep trauma memory stores. Knowing that helps because if he isn't around and I can't access all fragments then I know I can ask mouse. When he said this it made sense because when I do important things externally I like to do them in triplicate. I email, phone and write if something is important so it makes sense that internally the supressed memories were stored in triplicate with him, the fragments themselves and mouse. I suppose incase anything happened that damaged one of them into forgetting.

Sorry I started rambling. Talking to parts when there, getting them to do something externally and aknowledge it was them - doesn't have to be writing, No-one and Mandy wrapped presents the other day and because it was aknowledged as their activity it leaves a sort of imprint in the mind so when I was wrapping presents just now it made me think of them.

I don't know if I could write my system. Mandy drew it. I'd have to start there. Can somebody draw it for you?
Main IW:
Obsidian
Beth KarenPatrickPeterRose
No-one Paul and Lilly
Terra Magicka: The Twins (Batcho and Fortune)Sue the secutary. Jane, a general memory bank.
(Silent Lake : The Overlord/Mr BrightsideThe Whisperers (whisper whats outside), The Lightbringers (shine on parts to front), Martin and Janet (children with tails and wings)).
Sarandipity
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:25 pm
Local time: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (2)

Re: Amnesia and system mapping

Postby SystemFlo » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:56 pm

As far as I know amnesia simply means forgetting. ..and way I've seen it been used in psych. things is not normal forgetting, like when you forgot to buy milk from store, but a symptom of some kind. I don't see why that would be wrong term to use, and on the other hand it doesn't matter because we understood what you mean.

About mapping: when they are co-con and do remember who they are, do they have names? Do they remember what happened last time they were out? If answer to either one is yes, just start writing up their names when they are there. Mapping can be done so many ways anyway, you can do it what ever way, share them in groups or link them with each other based on any info you have about them that feels meaningful to you.

Do you have an inner world, are you aware of having one? We do, and we have amnesia protecting it. Some systems may have it other way round, they have amnesia protecting this real world, and information gets lost when parts move between worlds. Our "Forget world" is protected with amnesia, and basically it means that when parts are in there, they don't know about anything else but what's in there. It's not the original inner world and not all parts live there, it's created. They all have their own backgrounds and they do not know there's other worlds too when they're in there. It's their real world and all they know about when they're in. That simply means that going in means they forget things that they are able to know again, when they come out. We also have another inner world, but it's not relevant in here, I don't know how it works, and the point is in forgetting stuff, when you move from one world to another.

Some systems have it other way around. They do have an inner world, but they forget info they have in there, when they come in here. That's to prevent information leaking out. Our structures are kind of complicated, and our most protected area is the Forget world, not outside life. Maybe you have something like this going on? In order for them to get in here, they forget all that happened meanwhile, because inside is not supposed to leak outside.

All systems don't have inner worlds, all they have is void, some kind of emptiness. It can be they are kind of sleeping or hibernating when they're not out. From outside it can be impossible to tell witch one is true, if nobody who is able to get in is able to tell anything about it. Can you go inside or do you stay out all the time? Do you know where were you when you weren't in here?

I don't know what it tells, but it's still one piece of information if they feel like "where have I been". It's important, because it tells they can tell the difference in time, they can feel time passed by, even if they don't remember what happened to them meanwhile. They still existed in time. I don't think void has time? Or maybe that's different depending on the system as well. We don't seem to have void. Like many systems describe it's something between inner world (if there is such) and this world, but we don't seem to have that at all. We have just "close to outside and outside" and I can't tell where the close to outside exists. It's more of an experience than place. Although all inner places probably are more experiences than they are places.

You were away from the forum for awhile, I'm happy to realize you sound like you're doing well, not like being in chaotic situation although parts have difficulties to stay present. :)

I think it's probably a safety issue. It's there to prevent all leaking
Flor F main front
Sami M 16 (15-26) system manager, defender
Lucas M 16 balancer, socializer, self care
Leon M 4
Fourteen M 14 main trauma holder, DID (ca 20 parts age 3-16):
- random M teen
User avatar
SystemFlo
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 1133
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:50 pm
Local time: Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:26 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Amnesia and system mapping

Postby WeAreOne420 » Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:15 pm

Thank you all for the lovely replies.

I do have an inner world but its only visible when certain person(s) is up. Everyone seems to have their own inner world that was just....there. I guess it reflects their personality? Not sure. There is a space that's like actual space with its own solar systems .

As of right now . and I agree as of right now everything seems to be a safety /ptsd type thing going on.

I don't write things down because for whatever reason I'm apprehensive...so I try to remember it not the smoothest move I must admit but for now it's working but eventually I might have to change that and write it down.

And yeah I f the alter is in the head/body then I they're either passive influence or fully "on" and I suddenly remember them like an old friend.
WeAreOne420
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:56 pm
Local time: Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Amnesia and system mapping

Postby Johnny-Jack » Sat Dec 21, 2019 3:59 pm

It sounds to me like the only way you can keep track of the info now is to write things down. Early on, we had to convince younger alters who were fronting to sit down at the computer.

At first our alters knew how to type as well as someone their age decades ago would have known, meaning not at all. So their typing was completely hunt-and-peck. I would have to spell out some words from inside or tell them exactly what to type. If we weren't near a computer, I'd have them write things down. We still have notes on napkins and scraps of paper, adult words and observations in a kid's writing. As the dissociate walls receded a bit and we got into the habit of journaling, younger alters were able to let the hands type, controlled by an older alter, while they remained in front.

If there's anyway you can encourage them to write while they front or if you can manage to use the hands while they're fronting, you all may be able to record things that otherwise will be forgotten, lost. I am so thankful we were able to make that happen. Otherwise, we would have forgotten 99% of what happened, of our discoveries and insights and conversations with each other. We had to make it appeal to individual alters. For a 10-year-old, we said we were writing an adventure about our life and he was one of the main characters! (This wasn't a lie.) For younger ones, I'd just tell them we have to do this and it won't take long.
Forum rules

Dx = DID. A recent blog post. My personal Periodic Table of alters.
Ab Ad Al Am An Ar As Ba Be Br Ca Cb Ch Cl Cm Cn Co Cp Ct Cu Cv D Eb Ed Er Es F Fl Ga Gd Go Gr Gw He Hk Hs Ht I J Jh Jk Jn Jy Ke Ky Li Lu Md Mi Mt Mx Mz Ne Ni O Pe Pi Q Ra Rd Ry Sc Se Sh Sk Sx Tk Ty U V Wa Wi X Y Ze Zn
User avatar
Johnny-Jack
Moderator: Consumer
Moderator: Consumer
 
Posts: 3010
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 3:07 pm
Local time: Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (43)

Re: Amnesia and system mapping

Postby Sarandipity » Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:08 pm

I thought of something else that might help. In my system there is a belief that appears to be true for my system but I don't know if it is for yours: if a part or even a construct takes action in the outside world they're more remembered. This is how No-one and Paul were forgotten - staying away from the front for years. It's how I remember the two teenage girls - they actioned in the body and were noted by other parts. It's also how the twins and the overlord stay illusive, not as illusive as the illusive part but illusive. The twins and the overlord have labels, not names, rarely come in the body (once or twice that I know of) I do not know how they feel or their characters but I know they can cause delusions which is why they stay out of the body. I know things about them but it's like hearsay. It's them who believe the more you action in the body the more "real" you become, to the mind I suppose. They also create constructs, other parts do not do that. Their constructs are not allowed in the body as it apparently gives them self awareness and the constructs then think they're real and not created and are then useless apparently. Being in the body is powerful.

So if you can draw parts forward into the body, get them to action, then if your system works how mine apparently does then your awareness of that part increases and so does the parts self awareness.

I may be saying something I already said but in a different way so apologies if I am.
Main IW:
Obsidian
Beth KarenPatrickPeterRose
No-one Paul and Lilly
Terra Magicka: The Twins (Batcho and Fortune)Sue the secutary. Jane, a general memory bank.
(Silent Lake : The Overlord/Mr BrightsideThe Whisperers (whisper whats outside), The Lightbringers (shine on parts to front), Martin and Janet (children with tails and wings)).
Sarandipity
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:25 pm
Local time: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (2)

Re: Amnesia and system mapping

Postby SystemFlo » Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:39 pm

I think there's truth in what Sarandipity said. In our systems boys have visited the body a long time, but I don't know if anyone has been aware of it, even themselves. I have Jules handwriting (and someone else's I can't tell whose) in my diary from at least a decade ago, so there's proof about that happening. It was still me writing, talking about him, in his hand writing. So he was there too, in my mind but we weren't aware of each other like co-con or anything.

Summer 2018 I suddenly started to observe myself. How I move, how I talk, does it change sometimes, when, do I feel anyone if I give it an opportunity and do not think of something else that keeps my mind busy all the time. I found out they do visit the body. And they did it like they'd always done it. Only I was new n there, suddenly saying Hi! On the other hand they came and went away again like they've always done it, but they still treated me like I'm a new adult in their life. They started to be aware they visit here, so started I. Because they weren't noticed in here before, and they forgot all about it when they went back in, they kind of didn't know they do it. Jules still struggles a lot with that. Lucas is way more accepting and more easy going like he is with everything, but still confused. Sami either isn't confused and wasn't and was more aware of himself, or then it's how he makes it look and feel like. But it's not easy to push him out of his balance, he's good at just dealing with what ever there is, that's his job, to deal with realities, so the rest of us can be more about emotions. His emotions have a place in the system too, big one, but it's his job to not be blinded by anything and feelings are easily blinding.

They certainly got more real to themselves and me then. This world came more real to them. They were there for a long time before that, of course, but didn't notice it even themselves. Their own lives are internal, so it's not like they wold have became more separate because of it, they were certainly separate and had identities, but since our life has been without trauma for so long, so safe, they weren't really need in here and I think they forgot why they originally even are in here. And well, it's logical Sami had more sense of self all the time, because I can see his handwork thru my whole life, so he has made decisions about my life all the time and stayed aware probably because of it. It's his work it was so safe and there was no more trauma.

If your mind resist making them more real in here by writing about them or doing something else like making a jewelry and adding a new color piece to it for everyone you know of etc.. you just need to decide which one you want. To be able to avoid the situation now, or be able to keep them in mind. You can't get both, so it doesn't make sense to ask help for something you then want to avoid. Not that it would bother me personally, I say this for you to realize it's your free choice to decide which one you want, and that you stay in realities with understanding you can't both have them and avoid.
Flor F main front
Sami M 16 (15-26) system manager, defender
Lucas M 16 balancer, socializer, self care
Leon M 4
Fourteen M 14 main trauma holder, DID (ca 20 parts age 3-16):
- random M teen
User avatar
SystemFlo
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 1133
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:50 pm
Local time: Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:26 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Amnesia and system mapping

Postby Zor » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:31 pm

I found a "map" to be awkward and difficult. Also, it seemed more "isolating"... despite that some of us ARE really quiet and relatively "inactive" outside, it just felt like the "map" approach felt like it emphasized that...

So instead we created a heart image- with puzzle pieces inside. All are a different color and shape, but about the same size, and all are contained in the same external shape of a heart (the body), and all connect to a smaller internal heart (the mind), so that we're ALL part of the single whole together.

You can see it here:
https://i.imgur.com/lnLPh4Y.jpg
(Body - Male, 39)
Zor - primary host & main poster
The rest of us: {\Pixie/}, Kaitie-Lynn (aka "Kitten"), Kaleb, Angel, Katya, Satin, Charles, Chloe, Noah, and a few rarely seen
User avatar
Zor
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 1335
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 12:32 pm
Local time: Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Amnesia and system mapping

Postby Sarandipity » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:24 pm

Zor wrote:I found a "map" to be awkward and difficult. Also, it seemed more "isolating"... despite that some of us ARE really quiet and relatively "inactive" outside, it just felt like the "map" approach felt like it emphasized that...

So instead we created a heart image- with puzzle pieces inside. All are a different color and shape, but about the same size, and all are contained in the same external shape of a heart (the body), and all connect to a smaller internal heart (the mind), so that we're ALL part of the single whole together.

You can see it here:
https://i.imgur.com/lnLPh4Y.jpg


Cool imagery
Main IW:
Obsidian
Beth KarenPatrickPeterRose
No-one Paul and Lilly
Terra Magicka: The Twins (Batcho and Fortune)Sue the secutary. Jane, a general memory bank.
(Silent Lake : The Overlord/Mr BrightsideThe Whisperers (whisper whats outside), The Lightbringers (shine on parts to front), Martin and Janet (children with tails and wings)).
Sarandipity
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 1541
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:25 pm
Local time: Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (2)

Re: Amnesia and system mapping

Postby WeAreOne420 » Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:58 am

Thank you for all of your thoughtful replies! It means so much to me that you guys took the time to help..


I think I'm going to try to do the image thing because for whatever reason visually.creating a map feels better than journaling.
Thats a great idea.

And I agree I cant have it both ways. I want to be in control and know what's going on but also simultaneously pushing knowledge of self away out fear. Not all parts do that but enough where I'm getting mixed messages.


I'm going to try to get my alts in the body by using some of the techniques you guys bought up.


Hope everyone has a happy holiday!
WeAreOne420
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:56 pm
Local time: Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:26 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Next

Return to Dissociative Identity Disorder Forum




  • Related articles
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: birdsong87, LearningToo, TheWaves and 44 guests