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the lady in the dream

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the lady in the dream

Postby myce » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:01 am

When I was a young woman, I was staying over at my late aunt's house and she woke me up because I was crying in my sleep. In the dream I was at an apartment like where I used to live and I had a garden. The landlady poisoned my garden for no apparent reason except it was her property and she could. I went for revenge and was walking toward her home with a container of gasoline in my hand. But I believe in karma, even in my dream I take it into consideration and I can't burn down her house. I sit down and cry in despair and that's when my aunt woke me up.

I always knew the dream was significant because the intensity of feeling didn't match up with what was happening in the dream. It seemed to foreshadow mental illness and loss of functioning. When I learned I'm dissociative I revisited the dream, concerned there might be a hidden persecutor poisoning me. I have little doubt there is, but I now realize the dream was about my mother.

The symbolism is significant because my mother is an expert horticulturalist. Everywhere we lived she planted gardens and dug fish ponds and always had a lot of houseplants. I was never so good with plants. My houseplants died and if I had a garden it was full of weeds. I thought I just wasn't good with plants.

A subtle sign of improving brain functioning is that I have houseplants and they're thriving. I realized the obvious- that if you pay attention and think about what they need then they live and grow. I made some mistakes and killed some plants but I can learn from what I did wrong. My favorites are mini sinningeas which are so cute and tiny they're potted in medicine cups and have flowers smaller than your thumbnail. My mom gave me a bunch of them and I put them in a terrarium and they're thriving.

That's my torment... we refer to it as Old System trauma. The day child who loves mini sinningeas from mom, and the night child who remembers how mom poisoned our garden. Destroyed our brain, though she did it unwittingly because she is just a child herself, an apparently normal person.

Back to the dream, I guess that's how it ends. We cannot burn down mother's house, it would destroy her. She knows I am mentally ill because of trauma and she is sorry, but she doesn't know. It's how she was raised, it is taboo to talk about your problems and her night children who remember are repressed and she avoids them. My mother is a child, an apparently normal person, the child-host is innocent and it hurts her to know guilt. I don't know if she even remembers that she kicked me out because of stepdad #2 and that's what I never forgave her for.

The night-children disagree want to burn down the house. They want to tell her many things they cannot forgive. I think we need to go with what I think the dream is saying and we need to accept being stuck in despair for awhile. Cue in Buddhist philosophy to remind me that it is impermanent and illusory or something like that. I don't understand but someone does and I remember it's good advice.

Thing is, the inner protector says we have to resolve Old System trauma before we can start New System. But New System needs attention. I asked them about having names and they were concerned the abuser would be able to see them if they had names. I don't know how many. A New System youngster only gave me permission to mention them after I told them there are two protectors regularly fronting including a wolf. They know Sentinel who is part of the New System but they didn't know there is a wolf who is Old System.

Anyway, I'm rambling but I want to post this before it gets deleted/forgotten because it's getting triggering to think we're allowed to exist and be known... thanks for reading but we don't like to come out and scared.
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Re: the lady in the dream

Postby Sarandipity » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:53 am

Maybe I'm saying something completely obvious and also non-applicable. I haven't read about DID to know the protocol on how to deal with it, I just have it.

But my thought was simple: you're internalising the abuser. You're accepting your internal abuser as an abuser and trying to run from them.

It appears to me that if you accept that the abuser is external, externalise the abuser and run from them instead of trying to run from an internal abuser (which is impossible and also possible to heal that abuser but not possible to heal an external abuser) then life is simpler.

To refer to the dream: burn down your mother's house (metaphorically) and walk away as a Buddhist would walk away without connection to this necessary action.

The Buddhist story of the two monks: one carried a woman across a river which went against his vow to have no contact with women. A few miles down the road on their journey the other monk says "how could carry that woman across the river, you broke your vow" the first monk replies "I put the woman down miles ago but you are still carrying her"

So burn your mother's house down, accept she's your abuser rather than keep carrying the notion that you are your own abuser and stop carrying your mother - which you are emotionally every time you make compassionate excuses for her behaviour.
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Re: the lady in the dream

Postby myce » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:27 pm

Thank you for your thoughtful reply Sarandipity. It seems I get more withdrawn after posting a topic and have a hard time replying to replies. The main issue with the mother is that she abandoned me repeatedly. Emotional abandonment, betrayal, kicked me out and moved away because of a man. She sends money generously but it doesn't replace mother. She gave me over a thousand dollars to repair my car recently but I'd rather have a mother I can talk to about my problems. There is not risk of abuse in the present or future.

It just seems the system is pressing on me to resolve the mother issue and get over it, because the traumas I haven't even started to process are worse and I need to be used to the idea that there is no mother there.
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Re: the lady in the dream

Postby Sarandipity » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:37 pm

myce wrote:Thank you for your thoughtful reply Sarandipity. It seems I get more withdrawn after posting a topic and have a hard time replying to replies. The main issue with the mother is that she abandoned me repeatedly. Emotional abandonment, betrayal, kicked me out and moved away because of a man. She sends money generously but it doesn't replace mother. She gave me over a thousand dollars to repair my car recently but I'd rather have a mother I can talk to about my problems. There is not risk of abuse in the present or future.

It just seems the system is pressing on me to resolve the mother issue and get over it, because the traumas I haven't even started to process are worse and I need to be used to the idea that there is no mother there.


I totally get that. When I was in psychotherapy the therapist said it sounded like I had a "jealous, immature mother" I couldn't get my head around it at all at first. It took a long time to accept that I basically do not have a mother. And even then sometimes I'd forget, take money (because my mother is also only capable of giving money) and then suffer the consequences of that. I might talk to her about a problem or ask her advice and that's when I'd be hit with "oh yeah, she's not a mother. Or I'd think she cares because she gave some money and spend time with her and it'd have a detrimental effect on me. It was horrible and occasionally it'd spiral for various different reasons.

It's really difficult for the brain to process that "mother" is not safe. The resus monkey experiments highlight it and when the urge to go to my mother would happen I'd tell myself I'm not a reses monkey. But it's difficult and much easier to slip back into delusions that my mother is "ok" when she is not.
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Re: the lady in the dream

Postby Floralie » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:12 pm

myce wrote:It just seems the system is pressing on me to resolve the mother issue and get over it, because the traumas I haven't even started to process are worse and I need to be used to the idea that there is no mother there.


That is a trauma too, abandonment is a big trauma. It's not a thing you just get used to, you process it like you process any trauma and grief it. That's how you "get over it". If that's where the trauma processing starts, then it is. Traumas are not a competition, you don't put them in list with a number telling them from mildest to hardest one. That all is first of all subjective. Your stuff is not less important than others' things. If you all agree this is something to start from, then start. And they need to let you feel and see your feelings as valid as theirs. You're not supposed to be competing either.

Kids can go thru a lot of bad things if they do have support and someone who values and validates their feelings. That's why abandonment issues are big things, they're kind of behind everything else. Mom is a person who can change things and stop them from happening at all, or support you thru them. So it's not just a thing to get used to, when it's more likely behind core traumas and core beliefs. Sometimes the saddest thing in something that happened can be that nobody saved you from it. The scariest thing can be something else, but feelings don't compete in what's most awful either.

I do understand where some parts can be coming from, because issues like that are long term things, and many parts just did get used to it. But that is wrong they needed to, because that certainly is not normal, good or sign of healthy to be fine with things that are not fine. In DID you have to be, part of you have to, but your view on this is healthier one. That is something to be upset about and process.

As long as you're trying to just be fine with something, because other's tell you it's not a valid problem, you're pushing the issue away and it's never gonna be the way it heals and stops being a problem to you. That's why you need to do the processing, fully understand and accept there is no mom and will not be. You're allowed to be as sad as you feel about it, and as angry. That's a thing to do, to see you can't change her, or any other people. When the feelings have validation, that they have a right to be there, you can live thru them. And then leave them behind, because that issue was dealt with. After you have accepted what you don't have, you can look around and start thinking what you could have instead of mom.

To have DID there needs to be repetitive or long term trauma and lack of support. Abandonment issues are both at the same time.

Getting healed means getting healed from everything. It's not a thing like others' seem to be thinking, that you push something away and choose to deal with something else and think it's fine to be someone who thinks it's just fine to be used to things like abandonment. It's not. Being fine with any type of trauma makes it more likely to happen again in future. And you don't choose the order of what to process anyway. Things come up, when mind is ready for them, and now it's working with this. So why wouldn't you be?
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Re: the lady in the dream

Postby myce » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:46 pm

Thank you for your replies. It is true the attachment issues are very deep and biological and it is a pervasive issue. The Old System feels the pain of attachment trauma while the New System is used to it. The issue we cannot get over with mother is that we are still afflicted with the family programming which is essentially like a role-reversal. Mother didn't even want to tell her parents when she was sick because she didn't want to worry her own mother.

The issue we have with mother is being incapable of being honest about what we're feeling. She thinks my problem with her has to do with stepdad #1 who is long gone. No, I haven't even started processing trauma related to stepdad #1 because I haven't resolved the abandonment issue and I can't. But I think realizing the dream I had so long ago was a significant step.

I need to be honest with mother and let her deal with the fallout of her own choices. I'm not trying to cut all contact but I don't want to go out of my way to see her either. I want to see her but the reason I don't want to visit her is because of stepdad#2. I need to communicate that to her and let her deal with her own feelings about the life choices she made.
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Re: the lady in the dream

Postby Sarandipity » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:36 pm

myce wrote:Thank you for your replies. It is true the attachment issues are very deep and biological and it is a pervasive issue. The Old System feels the pain of attachment trauma while the New System is used to it. The issue we cannot get over with mother is that we are still afflicted with the family programming which is essentially like a role-reversal. Mother didn't even want to tell her parents when she was sick because she didn't want to worry her own mother.

The issue we have with mother is being incapable of being honest about what we're feeling. She thinks my problem with her has to do with stepdad #1 who is long gone. No, I haven't even started processing trauma related to stepdad #1 because I haven't resolved the abandonment issue and I can't. But I think realizing the dream I had so long ago was a significant step.

I need to be honest with mother and let her deal with the fallout of her own choices. I'm not trying to cut all contact but I don't want to go out of my way to see her either. I want to see her but the reason I don't want to visit her is because of stepdad#2. I need to communicate that to her and let her deal with her own feelings about the life choices she made.


That's how I felt about my mother. Didn't want to go out of my way to see her but didn't want to see her. I have since cut her off. But that option for a long while felt the most comfortable but I have to say it was because of the feeling that "cutting mothers out of life is wrong" so it was more about that than wanting anything to do with her. It could be different for you and it's good to at least know and aknowledge that you have a kind of plan about it.

With telling her it's because you don't like her partner - that's good too. It seems an ok and healthy stance to take. You don't like him, she as an adult has to live with her choices. She already is it seems. And I think of this in relation to my children. If they didn't want to see me for whatever reason I would actually respect that, accept it and be happy for them. This will only become a problem if your mother makes it a problem, you have a right to your choices and so does she. I like my father's wife. I thought my mother's partner was ok but over the years I have severe doubts. He's too easily manipulated by her and I used to think it's just because she's good at manipulation but now I think nobody can be as stupid as he seems especially as he's not that stupid in other areas of his life so it makes me suspicious. Other than that, if I could, I would see my parents partners without seeing them.

Glad to read you're getting to where you want to get with this. Much luck.
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Re: the lady in the dream

Postby myce » Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:35 am

Curse the night and day, we're not the same. Dissociative. Identity. Disorder. I certainly have that, even if it's just one dissociative identity. My spirit was first divided into night and day then subdivided again and again. To deal with our differences the average result is passive withdrawal.

But I'm a New System host and I don't want to talk about mother. The Old System belongs to Tdae, the artist who created it. Tdae modeled a real-life forest within. She went into the abyss and rescued four littles, she transformed them into ghostly wolves so their trauma could be remembered and known. And then she left this world and I missed her though I didn't know her.

She knew and wrote about abuse and dissociation, though we didn't know about those things as a teenager. She always knew. She wrote a story about an evil necromancer who stalked me and used magic to blow away my hiding places. She wrote a sorrowful poem about two sisters, a creative one and a logical one, separated by a chasm and unable to reconcile. I now recognize she was referring to herself and the alter who I call Front1.

The Wolf is her proxy/protector in the conscious mind. But she decided to come out and play an online RPG that I like to play. In this game you can buy homes and land to build and decorate in a fantasy world. It's a small thing but it felt really good to feel the creativity flowing smoothly. But I was surprised at all the baggage that seemed to bubble up with her. It was noise of critical chatter attacking and bickering. The next night I wanted her to come out again and she said, “no, I'm tired, I don't feel like it, and besides you guys are always criticizing me anyway.”

Oh. I can't help it. The critical voice is good for Sentinel and Front1 who operate on their specializations in the outside world. They're not bothered by it and sometimes they think it's funny. But I should be more mindful and think things differently. For example I should think, “It would look better if we do it like this,” instead of thinking “that looks like sh*t.” Tdae decided to come out to play with us again and we can remember to think nicer thoughts to each other.

***

Little Reboot surprised me on another thread when she commented from within that's it's always 1980 in her world. Or 1984. I think she means to tell me there are more time distortions buried in the New System. Once in awhile I've seen glimpses that they're always afraid stepdad #1 could pop up no matter where I am. I don't know if it's connected to the debilitating anxiety I feel but it seems to fit.
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Re: the lady in the dream

Postby Sarandipity » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:26 pm

Sometimes I wonder if I have a night and day system because parts say they get up at night but I'm too cowardly to look into it properly.

No-one (a part) tried when she was fronting during the day because of strange sensations in the head - like it was being divided in two and she managed to access the part that was in the other side of the brain and body (felt like) as she went to sleep. The only difference was that she got up at 3am to pee which no other part does. And she hasn't been around for pretty much since she was trying to investigate. She's been all over the internal world's though so she has access other parts don't.

Do your day and night child know about eachother?
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Re: the lady in the dream

Postby myce » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:17 pm

Hi Sarandipity, The night and day to me is a metaphor for the shifts in general attitude which occur daily like clockwork. It is somewhat analogous to the terms “Apparently Normal Part” (ANP) and “Emotional Part” (EP) described in the Theory of Structural Dissociation. It has to do with how fronting threads/alters orient themselves in the outside world. (Not very relevant to inside parts.) The night child is fixated in trauma or defense, while the day child is fixated in avoidance. A day child could also be a part who is conditioned and triggered for pro-social behavior. Example, my Front0 the child-host who automatically gives in to others as a traumatic defense.

The metaphor comes from memories of infancy when my mother mistakenly believed the baby needs to be trained to sleep alone. She believed the baby/toddler needs to be controlled and disciplined and that was very traumatic for me. The memory said we were “tortured with isolation night after night until it ripped my soul apart. We were divided into the night child who is always in pain and the day child who always forgets, and this became the pattern of our development.”

Sentinel and the Wolf are protectors who both now identify themselves as the night child, though they were made from different traumas at different times. Both recognize they share a common thread to the original Night Child who was a helpless crying baby. The day child (more often singular) shares a common thread to the original Day Child who saw sunshine and smiles in the morning and forgot about what happened the night before. Despite the labels, the night child is usually more active in the morning for me and the day child more active in the evening, though they can be co-present or triggered at any time.

I first became aware of the shifting attitude when I was in a bad relationship that really brought out the differences between them. The day child was in love while the night child Sentinel was starting arguments. I couldn't understand what was happening. As host/ANP I could remember but not control what the night child was doing. Sentinel is specialized at verbal abuse and driving people away. At one point she came out to him and said “I am Shield.” (She called herself Shield at the time.) He asked for (his nickname for me), and she said, “Nickname isn't here. She's under our protection.” The boyfriend left right after that incident, and that's when I started learning about having a dissociative disorder.

When I first started trying to reconcile Front (day) and Sentinel (night), as Front I would concentrate hard to memorize the message I wanted Sentinel to hear. Then she would remember the message the next day when she came out. One thing I asked her about is why was she still obsessed with this man who left, and then she realized it was really about mother and not a man. So we started processing trauma related to mother.

Now the night and day can often communicate in real-time as long they're present enough and nobody is triggered. Sentinel went from being an anger management problem to an adviser, and she told the host to “pay attention to what you're feeling” which helps us integrate. The deeper parts like Tdae's alters Wolf Corpse and the Howlers started coming out. We can work together more smoothly and not feeling so chopped up and acting crazy because of it.
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