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Problems with my sister

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Problems with my sister

Postby Floralie » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:43 pm

This is one long-ass thing, because I ended up thinking by writing.

We stopped being in contact with our mom at spring if I remember correctly.. then made it impossible for her to contact us via phone, she can't call or txt us or send us wap-messages. We still continued to be in one wap group for family where is my my mom, sister's whole family and me. I thought she would not start talking to me there, because of kids, they're not aware we're not talking and if they were, only oldest one could have any clue why. (She's turning 18 soon, not a little kid anymore, so we've talked about childhood things when she's been able to hear, but not to her. She has her own relationship with our mom and it's not a bad one. Mom is not manipulative or mean any way, she's not harmful to healthy kids if they visit every now and then.)

After that mom has said few things to me in that group, but we've not reacted. Two of them were more like we were commenting same conversation and she reacted to what I said, but it was not straight to me. Other two have been more no-no stuff, once said when oldest kid was posting pics of gowns she was shopping for school ball, that she misses me. Like totally unrelated to anything, clearly drunken comment, but it was not to me but about me, and another one saying happy birthday. That I kind of understand because all others were saying that as well, so it could've been even for kids not to realize anything is off. So, she's not done anything actually bad, she never does, but I still have DID after childhood with her. It's not just her, it was more our dad, but we had reasons to not stay in contact. So we left the group, didn't say anything in there. It was just one day, after her reacting to something I said, we were very low and have been for a longer period, and Sami got totally triggered and furiously angry. It kind of requires he does that, for me to get it done.

I posted a message to my sister, who originally created that group, told her we'd still wanna know what's going on in kids lives, cause they post plenty of pics there, and there's a lot happening all the time, they compete etc. She answered with "sad that you feel you need to go and why now" and we, it was like myself but with the overly triggered Sami told her it's because mom talks to me in there. My sis has never seen or heard me being angry, and totally couldn't handle the fact "I" so clearly was. So she started commenting on things from or mom's perspective, and Sami got triggered about that too.

Sami slides in age when he's out, from about 16 year old to about 26 year old. These numbers are not given by him, so they may not be correct, but from teen to adult anyway. 16 year old Sami is way more aggressive, distrustful and defensive, with over the top reactions, and no will, ability or intention to be anything else but just that, than he is as an adult, which is pretty understandable from his point of view, but can be problem with other people. He also cusses, thing adult Sami doesn't do, but only uses one very usual teenage bad word, pretty close to f-word in English. He said that twice, but both times about the thing, not about any person. He was overall triggered and angry, but not angry to my sister when we started. But he is like he is. He talks like he talks, and you can hear what he says or start talking about the way he says it, which to him means you're not respecting boundaries. Every first conversation he has with anyone is about boundaries in the end, and when he's young, he shows where his are and does not back up. You accept that and talk about the thing you were talking about and accept the fact he is angry, which to me is perfectly fine because it wasn't targeted at my sister, or you start talking about something else like complaining about the language, and he hears it's someone trying to disrespect his boundaries or tries to question them, and in that case it's case closed, out of his life. He won't miss you.

It turned to be more of a fight, me and Sami against my sis. I talked too, about my things. Like that we are allowed to have feelings and there's nothing wrong in being angry, we were angry about the subject, not angry to my sis, before she took a side. At some point I said she needs to answer you (like many of us) when I say we, and answer you (just me) when I say I, which she refused to do, with saying maybe I understand but it doesn't feel natural to her. Well, I don't, because there's a reason when I use we, then I was talking about Sami too, and I when I talk about myself. The end result was she saying she is not against us having feelings, and she's not in anyone's side (mom vs us) but felt I over react and she tried to give perspective. Well, the same end result from our point of view is there's not difference in taking a side and giving perspective if that's defending actions we were against, also there's no difference in thinking we've over reacted and thinking us being angry was not justified. They're the exact same thing, just put more nicely.

I don't think she got at all, that it was Sami with me, because I didn't mention it, and it was in a way my writing style, but with Sami's emotions and his 2 f-words. From my point of view I have lot of things to say, and I put some of them in my last message. I thought she'd be the person to whom other parts could come out as themselves, and that she cold be the one supporting us in this, but I see that's not true. We only communicate at all because we're sisters, but we would've never get to know each other otherwise, because we're so different. Not having her in our life either would not be a big change.

We rarely see, and she's never been interested in getting to know parts. I've talked about some T stuff to her, and about others to her, but she never asks or shows interest to get to know us as a whole. Things she knows she knows cause I bring it up, but it's all up to that. In reality, she won't be that person, because we simply aren't that close, and she might be up to supporting me, but not us. I've explained DID basics to her, and she has had a lot of time to do research if she'd been interested, but clearly she wasn't. And things won't go back to how they were.

I've avoided this issue since the fight. She waits to have an apology I guess, but she will not have one, cause Sami doesn't think he owes any and I belong to his side, we're same system, I don't belong against him. It maybe wasn't that nice or smooth, but he took the responsibility of getting us out from where my mom reaches us, and what can you expect from a teen that doesn't like or trust people and feels violated. I've not looked at those messages after that, or thought about that issue at all, but at some point I need to. Our T is on vacation for a month, it's like 1,5 weeks till she's back, and atm we have 0 people in our life we could like call and tell something that happened or something. My sis have not been that person to be honest tho, our mom was.

We'we been struggling with feelings of loneliness (not Sami), and now having no family or friends is just $#%^.

My sister's dog will be here couple of weeks starting from the end of dec. so someone has to do something before that. Dog can't go anywhere else, she's scared of people she doesn't know. I don't wanna talk face to face with her, because it's hard for me to not agree with her. I'll start forgetting words and can't explain things. Also then it would require Sami to be as triggered he was for him to get thru of the automatic wall of do-not-feel I have up every time there's another person in the same room. I wanna be able to write because that we can do more together and writing is my emotional language, and I can also disagree, even with my sister whose opinions I copied as a kid, cause I didn't know how to have your own.

Thinking about it now, it was she thinking I wanna fight and us thinking she wants to fight, when in reality no one wanted to fight, we were just angry about the original issue and did not accept it to be questioned. But the problem is, we do not do things against Sami, so she'd need to have peace with him first. I've talked to her how Sami is before, and how easy it is to misunderstand him, because he doesn't say things like "in my opinion" or "I think..", he makes claims and waits for the other one to proof him wrong if they disagree and that way of talking can sound way more aggressive he is. We hear the difference from his tone, he's expressive ways you can't see in messages. We also talked about the issue of him in reality talking about his boundaries regardless what the actual topic is with all "new" people, and how he as a defender has to be that way, he can't be willing to please. He has things I was not allowed to have, like being angry, and that's why negative reaction to us being angry is so triggering. It's also triggering that my mom is still in that group and we're the ones who need to separate ourselves from others, although we're the victim.

That's one huge thing I want my sis to understand the way it's actually understood, but you can't force people to understand when they go around like they always have. That we have DID which is the most severe dx of trauma. So the problem is not me, or in me. They've just so used to me being the one who gets hospitalized and has issues, that also when she kind of knows it, and probably thinks she gets it, it does not show in the reality she understands we are a victim and our mom is a traumatizer, who caused us to have issues. Sami is more radical about taking sides, he doesn't think it's fine for her to hang out with the traumatizer like nothing happened. Did it even occurred to her she could remove mom from the group, or make new one for them?

When Sami makes his mind, he's not likely to change it. It's kind of.. you need to pass to our defender to pass as someone safe, and there is no unsafe people in our life.

Originally I was gonna write more about how to stay on Sami's side, although I understand our message didn't come thru right way because we were triggered. Cause I don't wanna act against Sami, but I know I could not have good relationship with him we have now, if I would not have known how he is like and why first. Because I felt attacked as well when he first time talked to me. But then I forgot the way he said that and thought about what he said, and discovered he was right. But I do understand not everyone has Sami taming skills or understand where he's coming from. And the problem is, that he rarely likes anyone, and he's fine that way, he's not up to changing. On the other hand it's that aggressive only if there's a reason in the system and when he's young.

Now I kind of think Sami probably knows how to handle this best way anyway. He probably has conditions, like referring us to how we tell, and something else actually important. He's not randomly mean, he does have a point and a reason to everything. It just can't be him when he's too young and too hard-and-fast. He's not usually that young anymore when he comes out, I don't know if it's actually about Lucas if he is. He's 16 inside probably because Lucas is too. And maybe outside if Lucas is close, cause our system does not do relationships between 16 year old and an adult.

Any thoughts?

Lucas and Leon were upset because of this. I heard Lucas saying to stop it when we wrote another angry message, like stop the fighting. I didn't know Leon was affected too, until he had chance to tell it in little's thread two days later. He probably was hiding.
Floralie F main front
Sami M 16 (15-26) defender (trauma)
Lucas M 16 (19) bridge-builder, self care (trauma)
Leon M 4 (trauma?)
Ferro M 14/24 protector (trauma)
Rami M 25 inner protector/caretaker manager
Anastasia F 26 inner caretaker, female sexuality
Jules M 11 main trauma holder with DID
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Re: Problems with my sister

Postby Sarandipity » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:01 pm

I stopped speaking to all of my family. My family facilitates abusers. It started around 13 years ago when my son was 5 and abused by my cousin who was 15. I wasn't coping, went to the psychiatrist to get medication but he sent me to psychotherapy for 3 years instead. I talked about being abused by my uncle and decided that contact had to be cut from all of my extended family because considering he is abusive I most likely abused all my cousin's and I can't work out who is safe or not so it's not worth risking my children's well being.

During that therapy I also put in place distancing from parents due to the abuse I spoke about and realising they were psychologically unhealthy. I wasn't ready to cut them out and hadn't gone any further than exploring what I call daily psychological abuse at that point so I thought distance was enough and it was for 8 years, 8 healthy years no meds and no hospital. Then they crept back into my life via me working full-time and taking an opportunity to visit my children when I was at work and I ended up in hospital. So this time I've cut all contact.

I have a sister too. Only one. Her life has been more self abusive than mine in every way but she has not been hospitalised. She gets much darker blacker moods than I do that last for alot longer. I found having her in my life I was walking on eggshells and during the 8 good years I minimised contact with her. When unwell I tried to show her written proof I had from social workers that our mother is not safe. At first she was devastated but within a week she'd switched back to full denial. I know our mother burnt her with an iron at about age 6, I was about 8, but I also know she will have a different story to that and or remember it. When we did talk she would remember things that happened to me that I had no recollection of until she said them, some I still have no recollection of but she has no reason to lie. She is very much in denial over how we were both treated. In some respects she was treated better, her room was dry and not damp for example but sometimes I think she may have had it worse in other ways because she gets much more depressed than I do.

From what you're saying it's difficult to know if you're the family scape goat or if your siblings have repressed memory also. Just because they haven't had hospital admission doesn't mean they don't have repressed memory. My sister used alot of drugs and put herself in very risky situations more than I did and until an older age but I think she blames herself for being a bad daughter or person. I used to do that too but I see it in a way that I was luckier because I had mental health support and many different therapies where as she's been pretty much coping alone and relies on our parents still. She did cut contact with our father a few years ago but I put that down to her being so emeshed with our mother rather than he is worse.

If you're the Scape goat for the family then all your siblings will be invested in you staying the Scape goat. I don't know of any thing you can do about it.

If they have repressed memory then they won't want to hear it and it'll cause more problems - like it did with my sister swinging worse into denial. I'm hoping when our mother dies she may be more free to really face things and I'll be there for her if she is. Until then I stay away for my own protection.

Yes it's hard without family.

I don't have friends either. I did have friends but they tended to be particular parts friends and so the parts can't maintain those friendships and sometimes other parts wouldn't like them. I'm staying with no friends currently because it seems a pointless activity when a year or years down the line a part will terminate the friendship. I speak to neighbors and people around me or who I bump into but not close friends, aquaintances, and I wouldn't talk about my disorder. I have started to gently explain my disorder to my children now because it feels like the right time and they notice when I "forget" things and I'd rather tell the truth than they think I lie. Also I trust them not to exploit it, which I have not ever trusted any other person with that.

So what to do? It's difficult because as I said it's hard to know if you're a scape goat or if your siblings are repressing memory. It's difficult to give any advice on it really. But I do have similar situation and my ultimate answer after years was to cut off. A psychotherapist said that over 11 years ago and a psychologist said it to me 5 years ago when I sought psychology because "I hate my mother" Five years later I've finally realised that it's ok to hate her, she did bad stuff, and this unwritten law that we all have to love our mother I do not have to subscribe to. I had alot of brainwashing from my father "your mother is your best friend" - she is not. Cutting off may not be the answer or necessary for you, I don't know but you're not alone in being alone.
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Re: Problems with my sister

Postby Floralie » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:35 pm

My sister is completely normal. She didn't grow up with best self esteem because of our home issues, but she's done all normal things in life and has never been depressed or anything. She studied, had a profession, got married, had 3 kids, studied some more while working full time with 3 kids and is working in cps now with higher degree or what ever they're called. Her husband did same thing, just earlier than her, studied more, the highest degree or what ever in his field. They're like picture perfect normal family. Not ideal, normal, with normal stress and normal kids fighting, like they can when it's not their job to be responsible of the stability. Normal issues of normal people.

I've been anxious and depressed all my life, I only realized it few years ago when I got to know how it is to be without them. Before that, I had no words to feeling bad because it's been my normal since the beginning. Pretty much all my childhood memories are from situations when I have been really overwhelmed by something, things that were not big, not traumatic, but still things that were too much for me to handle, and I'm asking for help from an adult, or that I don't have to stay somewhere, or do something, or be touched by someone and the feeling to me is unbearably strong, but no one cares about it, because the situation is not actually dangerous or as dramatic as it is to me. I think those may be the only times when I have asked for help, that's why I remember them, because I've always been way more ready to suffer in silence and be left without things I want or need, than communicate any need and it doesn't have an impact. I can't deal with disappointment. Like the thing about me asking something from an adult was a huge risk and lot of effort, but all those memories are same, what I said had no impact.

We remember same things same ways, me and my sister, our mom is the one who doesn't remember things that happened. She doesn't deny, she knows we wouldn't lie, she knows her mind makes all better afterwards. But there are lot of things we remember happening and she has hard time believing, although she does believe, but it's hard for her to see how can that be true. Things like abusing animals. Not sadistically or to be mean, but as a way to "teach". She can not believe she's done that, but she has. My dad has zero memory over past. He knows he's not been a great dad, but probably don't know how or why, and don't remember anything about anything.

In a way one could think my sister would've suffered more, because the emotional incest and taking responsibility of our parents when they were drunk was my sister's job. Kind of. She forced us to go in and do our things to make them stop when it started to sound too bad tho, so she made it be our job in the end, because she could make me do anything, talk me into anything, I had no will or opinions really. But in a way she emotionally wanted to have that control over them, and I wanted to escape from it. Probably more keenly, more I needed to do it. I wanted to play and not face the reality, while she was all the time fully aware and listened every word our parents said behind closed doors, she could not not to. Our doors were always closed, two closed doors between us and them. In a way it was either her inability to dissociate that made her deal with things when they happened, and I didn't. Or there's more to my story than there's to hers.

Thinking about our differences, attachment issues are way more severe in me than in her. She maybe had more care taking than I did, she had healthier attachment. The issues going on when I was a baby were a lot, and there's a possible s.abuser, uncle from mom's side who lived with us for a year when I was a baby. There's no proof of him ever doing anything like that, so it's just a possibility and I've accepted it's also a thing we never get to know. There's no reason to suspect him, other than it is a possibility.

There's an other possible s.abuser, uncle from dad's side, who did some sexual plays with my sister, and I was in their care a lot after that. I don't remember such things, but if those ages would be correct, they'd explain Lucas' background, ages would match with things in either his life or with the reactions of the system. We just know something happened at age 4, because that's kind of when Leon was born or stopped growing and if Lucas has our babytime, he "got adopted" until he came back few years ago. But it can also be symbolic. And we probably never get to know that either. What has happened after that, straight out trauma stuff, has been Jules' issue. And stuff when we've needed to do stuff that can't be just avoided because it's real deal, is Sami's job. Things like calling ambulance etc. He's not most emphatic helper, or doesn't come across that way, but he gets $#%^ done when it needs to be done.

My sister always had the understanding what's normal and there's a lot of things that were things we were ashamed of and it's super important to her to do them differently. I just followed her, and thank God I had her. If there wouldn't have been her, I don't think I've ever moved out from my parents or do any of the normal things I have now. Things like that would not have come to me like they should, they came because she did normal things and then I copied it, kind of. There's still huge black spots in my understanding of things I can do. Like it was a thing for me to realize I can buy the kind of furniture that I like, instead of the kind that suits someone like me, meaning lesser than people who can have nice looking furniture. So.. when I was looking for something to buy for myself, I refused everything that's actually nice in my opinion.

I was 38 years old when I realized I can go to any store and just buy myself those leggings kind of pants people use under their jeans or what ever when it's cold. Until that I just had very very cold winters. But my sister or my mom did not tell me to go and buy pants like that for winter, like all normal people have in a country where it's snowy winters, and I kind of didn't realize I can, until one day I did and was amazed. Things like that don't connect normally in my mind, I can appear way more normal I actually am, because I had someone who showed me how to do normal things, and expected me to do them too. There's just so much that's expected that I don't actually have. To me it's more like, if I didnt have some things as a kid, I never learned to do them, instead of having a need to do them normal ways, and that's pretty clear difference between us.

People like her don't understand people like me, because to her it's just about doing it and that's it, she doesn't understand what's the problem, other than not just being motivated enough or something like that. I don't know what's the problem either, I just know it's not that simple to do things, when it has never come to your mind it's a thing to do. To me there's just some things like that.. that it was so cold because I don't have proper winter clothing. Why? Because I'm the kind of person who doesn't have it. And that's it, no dots connecting.

Lucas can do that stuff, so it's better now.

I don't think it's my sister being in denial or anything like that, actually she's been the one who wants to talk about those old things because to her it gives something, but to me it doesn't. I don't know how normal memory is like, there can be gaps even for years in my childhood for me, and I have no way of telling is there. If one should remember things like birthdays, I don't. I know when I was in first grade I had birthday party at home to girls from school. I know it, don't actually have memories of it. Don't remember any present ever. I know it wasn't a big thing, we didn't like celebrate birthdays. My sister remembers being very disappointed to gifts she got, it was some cheap things she wasn't even into. I only liked stuffed animals and probably always got them ?? maybe I don't remember because it wasn't upsetting or fun. I don't actually know did we have anything special for the birthdays, but I don't know, don't remember.

Thinking about things I know about my past, there's a lot of stuff I know, but don't actually have any memory of it. But I still know it was a thing. Or I have one memory of some thing but still can tell it was thing done a lot. But I don't know if that's how remembering is to everyone. And you guys can't know it either, so I'm not actually asking.

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Sami M 16 (15-26) defender (trauma)
Lucas M 16 (19) bridge-builder, self care (trauma)
Leon M 4 (trauma?)
Ferro M 14/24 protector (trauma)
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Re: Problems with my sister

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:05 am

Floralie wrote:I just know it's not that simple to do things, when it has never come to your mind it's a thing to do. To me there's just some things like that.. that it was so cold because I don't have proper winter clothing. Why? Because I'm the kind of person who doesn't have it. And that's it, no dots connecting.

Flor


I can totally relate to this. There are basic things that just don't occur to me to do. I think it's like a learned helplessness from not having needs met as a child. You start to accept that things just are the way they are and can't be improved or changed. And for me there's an element of not deserving to have things improve.
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Re: Problems with my sister

Postby Sarandipity » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:35 am

The basic stuff is what I dealt with when in psychotherapy because that's all I wanted to deal with. I wanted to BE "normal" which has actually proved impossible because I do not react normally to things. But it did teach me "self care" as in like your clothes example but for me that was about different parts having different clothes as well as looking for appropriate clothes. It was about recognising if I had pain because I can block it and going to the doctor if I'm ill - which I'm still not fantastic at but I do go (my mother took me alot and for no real reason). Looking after myself with food, which varies alter by alter. For some alters it's simply about making sure they eat something even if it's just toast and others it's about making sure they don't eat loads of cake. Self care to me is also about recognising my limitations, I had to give up full time work because my conscience wouldn't allow me to have no time and energy to not teach my son who is behind at school and also I forgot how to do mechanics while ill but it seems to be basically back now, small things when people talk about cars made me realise it is there still so I'll just work on my own car while I'm not working in a garage. Even with this new job that means I'm less tired because it's less physical I can't take on too many extra days because of my problem with my feet, before I would of not recognised that and blocked the pain. It's all basically being aware of yourself like you would be aware of a child you're looking after. I see it like that therapist re-mothered me and taught me to mother myself because effectively I didn't have a mother.

It's really difficult to say how you deal with your sister. You said she wants to talk about the past but in your original post you said she got defensive and effectively took your mother's side. Which seems contradictory?

I don't remember birthdays either. I remember I would write a play every Christmas and me and my cousins would act it out and make the scenary. That my nan would always take us to see a pantomime. Because Christmas was largely outside of our home maybe I remember it better. Trying to think about at home at Christmas I remember one year we stayed home but I remember it as fraught, I don't remember what we did but I remember the emotions of it. I know I had birthday parties because my mother sent photos. Me and my sister had to wear the same dresses and we looked creepy - which I don't think is what my mother was trying to invoke when she sent them. Presents I remember are getting a Barbie thing I didn't want, because I wanted mechano. I remember my nan would always buy us keep sakes if it wasn't clothes but I have none of them because my mother threw them all away.

My mother tries to portray this fake facade - did and still does. The reality was very different. Because I don't speak to my sister I don't know where this sits with her but I do know my mother has given her thousands over the years - probably touching about 30k - it's costing her to have contact with my sister. But my sister will do near enough anything for money, things that I draw the line on so it's not surprising that she is literally making my mother pay to see her. I'd rather go without than have her in my life.

My sister was diagnosed with autism with severe anxiety. Which if you knew her you'd question. But I read up all about it, even though I don't see her, and basically that diagnosis can mean a very sensitive and intelligent autistic child will create personna to cope with life. Personally I don't think she has autism, I think she has DID because of things that happened to us. My sister accused my father of SA a couple of years ago and I just barely remember hearing the words and fazing out because my step mother told me.

With your sister the only thing I can think that might help is that you talk in person instead of text? Sometimes text makes things worse than in person.
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Re: Problems with my sister

Postby Floralie » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:17 pm

I think family dynamics are hard to understand from outside. I can imagine how someone sees my problem with my mom saying she misses me, when I've told not to talk to us, as a luxury problem, because they may wish they had a mom who would say that and never will. But it's not that simple, dynamics are delicate. She doesn't say it unless she's been drinking, and it's also about the original issue, the reason why she is an issue to us.

She has always said right things, like that us kids are most important thing in her life. But there is no one single choice she's made ever that would indicate it's true. She chooses dad, then alcohol, then us. Me before my sister, because my sister is too healthy and not affected by her the way I am, but we won't be anymore. Sister's kids are way too healthy, they're not affected by her at all, which makes her feel like she's their victim somehow for weirdest reasons, but not the way kids would see it or be affected by it either, because they can't read secret sick-family code-language. She just can't deal with the fact kids have feelings and they move around the house and don't sit in their room, and do things and talk and have opinions. We weren't like that. We were best kids, she always embraced us being so nice and easy and was happy she didn't have boys. But she did actually, several, she just doesn't know them and they don't identify being her sons either.

She always said we can always come to her and tell about any problem, but that does not mean there would ever have been relationship to actually be able to do it. She came to us to tell about her hardships, and then told that in the end. Never asked how are we doing. Because of how mean our dad was to her all the time, we felt really bad for her, and she used that too. So to us she used to be innocent victim we need to take care of. We were not allowed to have feelings or opinions, no one would've punished us or got mad with us if we do, but dad would be mad at mom, because he can't deal with anything not being the way he wants to, and if it's not, it's our mom's fault and she will suffer. So we knew not to cause mom problems by having anything like problems, feelings or such. And she was very willing to be taken care of and share her marriage problems with us for us to support her. From the age when we understood spoken language. We never realized as kids she doesn't ask us things about our life.

The thing is, that everything is always about her in the end. About how she's a victim. That is true, I do not deny it, she is and was, but so were we. So when she says she misses me, I don't feel loved because someone misses me, I hear a demand to feel bad for her and go to comfort her. That's why we are not in contact with her, that it would never cross her mind to ask how am I doing and then actually just listen. She tried to several times, because we have talked about this for years, but she always ends up talking about herself and we end up giving advice. Then she gets guilty for doing that, but not the way she would change, but the way she wants to be forgiven by us, which again is about her in the end, her feelings of guilt, and zero about how we feel. Her emotions about me are not for me, they're things to say that sound right, but aren't.

To be brutally honest, she is not intelligent enough to be intentionally manipulative, but it doesn't mean her ways are not manipulative ways. Now we fully see it and get irritated by it. My sister knows it's that nonsense talk like all I love yous when drunk, but also knows she doesn't mean anything bad. And I think that's the point she (sis) was trying to make, that mom doesn't do manipulative things we were accusing her about, intentionally, which is why she (sis) doesn't see it as a manipulation. But no, not when Sami is active and close, just no, we do not need to understand mom's point of view one bit, we are entitled to think this from our side only. That gets easier and easier the more time we spend away from her (mom). We can start to be angry at her, which is thing we've known for at least a decade we at some point need to do, and after that we can forgive her, because she isn't a bad person, she's person with mental problems and good will. But first we are angry, do not take anything and won't understand anything. We don't want anyone to give us perspective, when it's our problem we don't feel for us, but for mom year after year and understand her at our expense.

Mom sent us a birthday card too. She shouldn't have, but it actually made me cry over missing her. It had stickers and for some reason I felt like she cared because she had put stickers to a card, and we cried. But I know we are actually crying about things we can't get. She will never be that mom who will actually put us first and we were missing that mom we never have had and will never have. We need to be sad about not having mom for real too, before forgiving. Going back to her would not give us what we were missing when we missed her because of stickers. It would've put us back to where we left.

My sister is able to change if I give feed back about things that hurt us. She's more on my side than our mom's. I don't think we need to get away from her.. or maybe we do at some point to think about things she made us do just because she could. Now we understand her, she was a kid and she meant no harm either or understood she's causing harm, but at some point we need to get angry at her as well, she used her power over me wrong ways too. It won't be fair to accuse her, she was a child, but it doesn't mean we don't need it to heal. We wouldn't have survived without her, we wouldn't have survived without mom either, it would have been awful because then we'd been the target to dad whose defenders need a target to attack. There's super sensitive little inside him, and very angry defender outside protecting that little boy, attacking if everything is not going well. His little likes me, and Sami can deal with his defender with no problems, he does that without getting angry the way it feels bad, that's why he's not same way a threat to us than mom who affects us way more deeply. Dad is generally like a stranger to us, we don't feel too much about him. We do see he's a victim as well, and way more damaged than we are. Maybe it would be healthy to be angry at him too, he is in a way the bad guy of the story, but somehow I feel like he just doesn't have enough meaning in our life to get angry. On the other hand, I thought for a long time I've forgiven my mom, but I think you can't if you never were angry. Maybe dad is just too much for us to think now, and that's why feels meaningless.

Back to my sis. The problem kind of is Sami getting angry at her. We would hope more caring from her, but we never do anything to get closer to her, so it's not for her to blame, not her alone. If we want her closer, we should act like it, but I have not. But she triggered Sami the wrong way, and that is an issue.

I told in the original post, but don't blame you for not remembering all I write, that for me it's hard to disagree with my sister face to face, to me it's way more easy to write. There's a bigger chance to get things wrong way and hear emotions that weren't there for both sides with writing, but face to face I'll forget commonly used words and can't explain things the way it's easily understandable, because I just lose that ability, I can't come up with sentences that make sense, it's total brain freeze. I can with other people but not with her. I need to write in order to get things said. But she actually should communicate with Sami first, make a peace. Or I can explain where Sami is coming from, so she understands him easier, then they can maybe talk, because the rest of us kind of don't talk about things, big things like that with a person our defender has blocked out from us as a danger/harmful to system. We won't disrespect Sami like that, he needs to be fine and agree she's not danger or disrespectful. But I see there are things I need to explain she doesn't understand like what is "being triggered". She does not know things like that. We were acting so out of character to her she didn't understand at all what's going on, and actually suspected we were about to block her out too, like our mom, originally. Like that that is the reason for everything, and that's nowhere near truth. Sami was furious about our mom violating our boundaries, it was not about my sister at all. When she tried to "give perspective" (her words) we saw taking side against us, and were more triggered because it's trauma we're not allowed to feel, and she's kind of forbidding that too with reacting negatively because we're angry. We would've hoped for an answer like I see you're very angry about that or something to validate us and our right to be angry and sound angry too in a message, when the anger is not about her and we are not angry to her. But she felt attacked by us being angry at all, probably because that was the first time she's ever seen us actually angry. I don't get angry like that, that's forbidden and therefor separate. She has not met Sami before and now she did. Big time. Sami was not talking straight to her, it was me but the feeling was from him.

This was the thing I was about to write originally, explain it this way, but then I started thinking about it different way.. But there is basic things, like calling us "you" with the meaning all or many of us etc. or she really isn't someone to try to get closer with. But like I said, Sami probably has a list of things in his mind that needs to happen our way, and I don't think I'll disagree with him about them. My relationship with her will be very official in future without that. There will not be sharing things if there's no respect for the system. She will be labeled as a harmful for system without it, and for a reason. We don't stay waiting for people to change if they dismiss any of us any way.

She doesn't need to like Sami, I understand he's not easy for outside people, because they can't feel his feelings and know him the way we do, and he's not up to being likable for them, he needs to be scary enough. Also for us he's there for us, but to outside people he's the one who can be difficult. But like in here, he chose to stay away rather than change or listen to BS, and he only comes when asked by one of us. We feel bad for him because of that, because of all the same reasons we were triggered by not being accepted when we're angry to our sister. She does need to respect him and understand he's part of our real overall personality. I won't accept him to be any kind of taboo either, he's not the bad guy, just the one of us who can take the blame although it's unfair to him. We talk so much good things about him, because he's the one who deals with shitheads and is never gonna hear anything nice said to him from an outsider.

One option is let Lucas and Sami to deal with this and see how it's accepted, when it's not me at all. Lucas is the one able to build where we need a bridge, inside the system and outside too, and Sami is the one in charge of safety that needs to be involved anyway. Then she would see it very clearly we work as a team now, and we will see if they are talked to right way. But Lucas has to be willing to do it. He was very distressed by the fight, saying "please just stop", he can stay out if wants to.

About loneliness. When we do have our sister we can contact, we kind of don't need to, we're fine on our own. But when there isn't anyone to contact at all, it's different thing, even when in everyday life nothing changed. And there are things like "the emergency person" in medical records, who gets contacted if something would happen to us. We have our sister's number in our med. records. If we go separate ways, I want her out of there, but don't have anyone else to be that person, so there will be nobody contacted. Things like that hit hard.
Floralie F main front
Sami M 16 (15-26) defender (trauma)
Lucas M 16 (19) bridge-builder, self care (trauma)
Leon M 4 (trauma?)
Ferro M 14/24 protector (trauma)
Rami M 25 inner protector/caretaker manager
Anastasia F 26 inner caretaker, female sexuality
Jules M 11 main trauma holder with DID
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Re: Problems with my sister

Postby Sarandipity » Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:57 pm

I totally get that Floralie, the medical form stuff. I had to do one recently and I had nobody to put on it until I realised my eldest son is 19 so he can be on it. Then I thought about what would I really care about if there was an emergency - my children - so I usually call my neighbor if I'm going to be late home from work or something so she can keep an ear on them and then I thought how terrible I want to put a neighbor on a medical form not a family member. But it is what it is.

When I was filling in the form it really hit home - I have nobody. Also I bring my children up to be very independent. My mother is a "victim" we had to make her feel good, our grandmother used to tell us how hard she had it and I don't want my children feeling like that so even just putting my son on a form that I will fingers crossed never need to use from work made me feel rubbish. Like I'm not good enough to have a family emergency contact - the reality is I wouldn't want any of them contacted but it felt like I'm the problem not that they're not worth contacting which they aren't. Reality and how something feels do not always tally.
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Re: Problems with my sister

Postby Floralie » Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:30 pm

We finally saw our T this week, but didn't really have time to talk about this. First part of the time went for Leon to make sure little black thing is fine and I just briefly explained what happened between my sister and us. I will talk about it more next time, take the actual messages with me etc. for her to get some insight, maybe about how triggered we were etc. which makes it more understandable to react negatively from their side (sister's), especially since she doesn't even know what being triggered is, did not recognize it, and did not recognize it was Sami in there being triggered, and that's why I wrote about "us", not "me".

T just said Sami's creating boundaries and that's good.

I don't think she's too picky where and how we build them, as long as we do it. Practicing doesn't always look that pretty I guess. She did not question Sami's choices with one word and never has, and thinking about that, it may also be an attempt to build a relationship with him. But she'll fail, I don't think Sami is ever gonna come out and talk to her. He's way too intelligent to fall in a trap like that. That's how he sees it anyway, T luring him closer, but he will not follow. He knows too much about techniques like that to believe they're genuine, she's someone we pay anyway, not someone who has any personal interest in getting to know him, only professional. And he will not give that joy of success to her professional career. Or it can be due to fact Sami has been once not happy with what has happened in therapy and he can cause a brain freeze and we have nothing to talk about. But not to do that again is not about agreeing or disagreeing with Sami, he doesn't have to be agreed with. It's about safety of someone else's.

However, I told I have a problem with my sis, or more accurately Sami has, and there are things that need to happen for them to get better. And T said it's good.

And that's it.

We have been in contact once after that. She wrote a message asking can her dog come in to my care from date something to something. We answered Can and she answered Nice with a smiley.
Floralie F main front
Sami M 16 (15-26) defender (trauma)
Lucas M 16 (19) bridge-builder, self care (trauma)
Leon M 4 (trauma?)
Ferro M 14/24 protector (trauma)
Rami M 25 inner protector/caretaker manager
Anastasia F 26 inner caretaker, female sexuality
Jules M 11 main trauma holder with DID
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Re: Problems with my sister

Postby Sarandipity » Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:32 pm

Setting boundaries is a great idea. Wishing it works out well for you in the long run. That's the ideal. With cutting off family there's alot of social pressure, which it seems like you're ok with because you can manage to cut off your mother.

It's different with a sibling though and there's alot of guilt that goes with it because they are more than likely a victim too.

For me cutting my sister off too came about because when she became abusive/triggering we once dealt with her like for like. This actually worked short term and she was more pleasant for a short while but we did not feel good about it and didn't do it again, responded compassionately but directly. This escalated our sister. So we came to a sad conclusion that her life as well as ours is better if we cut contact.

It's not regretted. Still feel like it's the best solution but it's still sad. If there was one person I wish I could talk to because of flashbacks etc it's my sister. She remembers but flips back very quickly into denial because the emotions are too overwhelming, that's what we observed previously, and that was with less severe stuff. Not wanting to add to her suffering or our own is the motivation.

It sounds like it could be different for you and your sister though and wishing you loads of good vibes with this.
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(Silent Lake : The Overlord/Mr BrightsideThe Whisperers (whisper whats outside), The Lightbringers (shine on parts to front), Martin and Janet (children with tails and wings)).
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