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Irritating & Hurtful Comments (Venting/Coping)

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Irritating & Hurtful Comments (Venting/Coping)

Postby Zor » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:23 pm

So twice in a few days times... (in chronological order)

FIRST
Sunday evening, after visiting my father in-law in the hospital with my wife... He had emergency bypass (triple) surgery Monday. We are on the way home Sunday from visiting him and we're talking about a friend getting married recently, and how his new wife should have an idea what she's in for with this friend (he's a bit of a handful at times), and I say that she should know him well as they've dated for a while and lived together for months already.
My wife comes back with, "Well when we got married I didn't know there were five of you." Before I could even decide what to say to that she adds, "To be honest, if I had known that then, I wouldn't have married you." Ouch. All I could say was "Well, I didn't know then either."
I didn't say anything else about it, partly b/c I was a bit shocked and a LOT hurt... but also b/c even if I HAD the words to speak, something to say, with her dad in the hospital and the surgery pending... it would have been a hard time for this anyway.
Now I find myself wondering if there's anything more to that comment... is it a just a big regret to her? Does she wish we weren't? IDK... I know I need to talk to her about it at some point, just not sure how or when... or even what I'll say.

SECOND
The T yesterday... So he keeps trying to "reinforce" that all the alters "really are just you, a part of you." In that "they are aspects of you" sense, as in part of ME, Zor... not that I, too, am part of a whole.
Even going so far as to say at one point, that b/c some of them want skirts, dresses, etc, that "inside, somewhere, really _YOU_ want these things." Also, b/c they note which guys are cute and who they think is attractive, that really _I_ have those thoughts/feelings... Me, not the "whole" or "part of the whole", but they are part of ME... Which I reject that entirely. I do NOT have interest in men, nor do I want to dress up like a girl. I never have. I get that others do, but that's kind of the nature of this, isn't it?!
He got Angel upset, too... trying to talk about facing/processing the pain of things that happened, traumas from forever ago... and again with the "aspects of you" stuff, trying to push the idea that these could be somehow done with ME, b/c "really they are you". Even when I said I "know OF" but don't KNOW the trauma. I don't have those memories, it wasn't ME that suffered it, experienced it... it was other parts of us, specifically in this case Angel.
And just a few moments later he mentioned needing to process these things... and Angel inside said kind of bitterly, "He could try f--king talking to US!"
---

Why is this, all of this, so damn hard?!
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Re: Irritating & Hurtful Comments (Venting/Coping)

Postby Amythyst » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:39 pm

Hey Zor,

I'm so ######6 frustrated with these people... The wife I kinda get -- don't like the situation but I get it -- but the T... he needs to get a grip, or get lost. :x :x

I know its hard to do -- like I really know, we gotta do it too and its hard for us -- but you gotta stand up for yourselves with the T. Angel is right. But grumbling inside about it isn't enough. Either you tell the T, or if he can, Angel can come out and tell him.

The T works for you, not the other way round. And it sounds like he's ignoring the best practices stuff, ignoring the ISSTD treatment stuff, and just doing his own thing. That means he's not doing his job. Maybe he thinks he knows better, maybe he thinks he can do it different, but its your lives and stuff he's working with and you deserve better.

As for the wife... IMHO after everything you and Pixie and everyone has said on here over the last 18 months or whatever.. I think she's refusing to listen, refusing to learn. I think she's been waiting for things to 'go away' and when she realizes that's not gonna happen, then she's gonna look for an excuse to end it.

We've read enough accounts of her acting abusive then playing the victem that I wouldn't be surprised if she's pushing the ignorance thing just to make you or one of the others act first. So it can be 'your fault' instead of hers.

Sorry for being so harsh ... I just hate that you're all being treated this way...

Viola
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Re: Irritating & Hurtful Comments (Venting/Coping)

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:47 pm

I second everything Viola said. You've gotten lots of advice on here about what to tell the T in order to see if he can step up and provide the correct treatment for you, and you haven't been willing to bring it up.

It's a huge avoidance to say that you have to READ the whole guidelines document before you can tell him to look at them. It's HIS job to read them and HIS job to get the experience he needs to treat you. Would you keep going to a medical doctor who didn't know how to treat the illness you had and kept treating you for something else?

I don't know what to say about the wife. I don't see it working out, but as I've said before, I think you need to have a truly supportive and helpful [i:#######1]therapist[/i:#######1] there for you, before you can face big changes in your life.
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Re: Irritating & Hurtful Comments (Venting/Coping)

Postby MakersDozn » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Agreeing with Gang and Viola.

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Re: Irritating & Hurtful Comments (Venting/Coping)

Postby Zor » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:39 pm

TheGangsAllHere wrote:I second everything Viola said. You've gotten lots of advice on here about what to tell the T in order to see if he can step up and provide the correct treatment for you, and you haven't been willing to bring it up.


So I DID tell him, very plainly, that it's hard for ME to talk about things that I didn't experience, that I didn't live through. Specifically referring to being touched like we were, that Angel lived through, that HE suffered for us.

That "well it really was you, because he IS you." stuff was the T's response to that comment.

I did tell him plainly, IDK how I can "process" something I didn't live and experience, that I have no memory of b/c I didn't experience it, Angel did. That I can't "work through/process" what I don't even know.
The T was insisting that, as "aspects of [me]", that they "are [me]", and therefore it's just getting passed a barrier that isn't letting ME process it.
It was this point he made the remark about the skirts/dresses and attraction to guys all being ME, b/c any of the others "are really you".

And it was AFTER I said that, and his comments of that nature, that he said (a few mins later) that he said that it'd be beneficial to talk about those things, to work through them, etc- in reference to a few nightmares I had (one I experienced, the other I saw like a movie playing)... and THIS is when Angel got mad and responded, inside, "He could try f--king talking to US!"


I DID tell him plainly I can't process something _I_ don't remember and didn't live through... That I know that Angel was the one that lived through that. And I get it, Angel is "part of me" in the grand scheme of us all being one person... but I don't agree that we're "one person" in the not individual sense, that Angel is "an aspect of me"... just b/c Angel felt something, lived something, thinks or wants something, does NOT make ME feel, think, have lived, or want the same thing(s).

That is kind of the entire basis of dissociation, isn't it?!
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Re: Irritating & Hurtful Comments (Venting/Coping)

Postby MakersDozn » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:50 pm

Hearing your frustration, Zor.

Just gonna throw this out there for you....Maybe part of the reason why he doesn't get the difference between Zor the system member and Zor the system/collective is that they have the same name. It's one of the reasons why no one in our system identifies individually with the body name.

Now, we're not suggesting that you the individual have to choose another name in order to work this out with your T; we're just offering the insight as food for thought. We wish we had some other ideas. :?

MDs
Multiple self-dxed 1996. Body 57f, no host or original. System of 47: 42 ♀, 5 ♂; 17 littles (7+under), 9 middles (8-11), 14 teens (12-17+), 5 bigs (18+up), + a formless yin/yang duo. Oldest member is 25.

Notable: Charity 25, Deborah 23, Drew 23f, Mary 23, Rachel 23, Laura 17.5, Allegra 17, Cass 17.
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Re: Irritating & Hurtful Comments (Venting/Coping)

Postby Zor » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:01 pm

MakersDozn wrote:Hearing your frustration, Zor.

Just gonna throw this out there for you....Maybe part of the reason why he doesn't get the difference between Zor the system member and Zor the system/collective is that they have the same name. It's one of the reasons why no one in our system identifies individually with the body name.

Now, we're not suggesting that you the individual have to choose another name in order to work this out with your T; we're just offering the insight as food for thought. We wish we had some other ideas. :?

MDs


You'd think that, but Pixie has talked to him several times... as HER... Kitten has once or twice... Using THEIR NAMES talking TO them, in person when they were out (and a time or two to me to address them inside).
He even made a point to try and address Angel ("Angel, if you're listening...") after he noted my wincing and realized there was an inner remark, and I told him Angel was very upset about the way they were being categorized- the diminishment of who they are individually...

I even tried to explain that while I understand we're all one person (in a whole collective/system sense)... that we're not all the SAME person, that we're all very individual and different, too... This is when his "well they _are_ you" thing about the clothes and same-sex attraction was said. He took that as an opportunity to try and refute the DIFFERENT views and desires of each part to being "just part of you, so YOU want".

So you mean like making a "system name"? So if my name was Bob (it's not), use Bob for ME, the host and part he talks to most of the time, but when referring to ALL OF US as one person, use "Zor" (or whatever)?
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Re: Irritating & Hurtful Comments (Venting/Coping)

Postby Amythyst » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:41 pm

Zor wrote:I even tried to explain that while I understand we're all one person (in a whole collective/system sense)... that we're not all the SAME person, that we're all very individual and different, too... This is when his "well they _are_ you" thing about the clothes and same-sex attraction was said. He took that as an opportunity to try and refute the DIFFERENT views and desires of each part to being "just part of you, so YOU want".

Hey Zor,

So the part that I put in bold in your quote - that's where I'd just stop everything and tell him flat out "No you are completely wrong. Here's how it works / this is what dissociation is all about / etc." And keep telling him that till he gets it, or till you get sick of arguing & fire him.

It kinda sucks and we hate to do it, but we've like completely 'ended' a session partway thru and stopped our T whatever she was saying, to tell her what she's doing / saying is annoying and wrong and unhelpful or whatever.

So far tho its been helpful cos it forces everyone (T & us) to address the problem right there with the T. And it means she knows its a problem, that we feel strongly about it enuf to stop everything and call her on it.

Like Gang said, you gotta have a supportive & helpful T to make progress, and you don't have that if you're contantly feeling like the T doesn't get it or is ignoring you or whatever.

Viola
Arin(22f); Charlie(6m); Claire(0f); Ewan(4m); Guardian(28m); Janet(4f); Kate(17/22f); L(∞f); Melissa(7f); Mike(35m); Nyssa(10f); Rebecca(∞f); Tegan(5f); Viola(17f); V1(22f); V2(16f); Waste(?); et al.
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Re: Irritating & Hurtful Comments (Venting/Coping)

Postby Zor » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:58 pm

Amythyst wrote:
Zor wrote:I even tried to explain that while I understand we're all one person (in a whole collective/system sense)... that we're not all the SAME person, that we're all very individual and different, too... This is when his "well they _are_ you" thing about the clothes and same-sex attraction was said. He took that as an opportunity to try and refute the DIFFERENT views and desires of each part to being "just part of you, so YOU want".

Hey Zor,

So the part that I put in bold in your quote - that's where I'd just stop everything and tell him flat out "No you are completely wrong. Here's how it works / this is what dissociation is all about / etc." And keep telling him that till he gets it, or till you get sick of arguing & fire him.

It kinda sucks and we hate to do it, but we've like completely 'ended' a session partway thru and stopped our T whatever she was saying, to tell her what she's doing / saying is annoying and wrong and unhelpful or whatever.

So far tho its been helpful cos it forces everyone (T & us) to address the problem right there with the T. And it means she knows its a problem, that we feel strongly about it enuf to stop everything and call her on it.

Like Gang said, you gotta have a supportive & helpful T to make progress, and you don't have that if you're contantly feeling like the T doesn't get it or is ignoring you or whatever.

Viola



I could, I guess, quit going... but that's not a long term solution. I COULD ask for a different doctor, I guess, but I doubt anyone else there has any experience or expertise with DID... and given that it's my only option for medical (including psych) care, I don't have the opportunity to go private (this doc is that the VA (Veteran's Affairs) hospital, and that's my ONLY medical coverage).

Honestly, what bothers me most... the DSM details DID saying: "Two or more distinct identities or personality states are present, each with its own relatively enduring pattern of perceiving, relating to, and thinking about the environment and self."
This shouldn't be a surprise or foreign concept to him. HE diagnosed us. HE read this to us in the office during a session.

I get it, he's never worked with a person with dissociative disorders before... it's new to him... and he doesn't have the luxury of having as much time and a single-minded focus to research this like _we_ do... but on the other hand, I hate feeling like _I_ know more about how this should be treated and how therapy SHOULD work than HE does. It's HIS job and HIS responsibility to do the work to make sure he gets it right. The alternative is risky, if not outright destructive. And, it adds a ton of stress and pressure on us when we SHOULD BE finding relief and comfort FROM that with him, in therapy (not constantly or in every moment, but as a general rule- and certainly in this specific matter).

I am not the forceful "stand up and stop everything" type... but I have a feeling if he keeps pushing, pressing this course, it's going to force someone... if not me, certainly Pixie... or perhaps even Angel. He was absolutely livid yesterday... that whole thing of diminishing his individuality and nature, then turning around to say those things HE knows and lived should be discussed REALLY ticked him off. Pixie said it took a few hours to get him calmed down and feeling better afterwards. :?
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Re: Irritating & Hurtful Comments (Venting/Coping)

Postby MakersDozn » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:08 pm

Zor wrote:So you mean like making a "system name"? So if my name was Bob (it's not), use Bob for ME, the host and part he talks to most of the time, but when referring to ALL OF US as one person, use "Zor" (or whatever)?

Well, that's one way of doing it, but it's not what we had in mind when we made the suggestion. The solution you describe above might be more appropriate here on the forums, where system names are used, than in 3d life, where they aren't used.

What we meant by our suggestion....We'll illustrate in a way similar to your illustration. Say our bodyname is Jane (it's not). Back in the mid-90s when we first became aware of our system, we accepted the old-school host paradigm and believed that there had to be an individual system member named Jane, even if we hadn't met her yet.

It took us at least two years to understand that this wasn't the case, and we scrapped the notion altogether. Since then, we've been staunchly committed to the belief that no individual in our system should have the same name as the body, precisely for the reason you describe in your original post.

Of course, Your Mileage May Vary, as we say, and ditto for anyone else on the forum.

Hope this explains more clearly.

MDs
Multiple self-dxed 1996. Body 57f, no host or original. System of 47: 42 ♀, 5 ♂; 17 littles (7+under), 9 middles (8-11), 14 teens (12-17+), 5 bigs (18+up), + a formless yin/yang duo. Oldest member is 25.

Notable: Charity 25, Deborah 23, Drew 23f, Mary 23, Rachel 23, Laura 17.5, Allegra 17, Cass 17.
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