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Embracing Multiplicity (too much?!)

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Embracing Multiplicity (too much?!)

Postby Zor » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:13 pm

So this week at the T he made an odd "observation" remark. He told me that he thinks I'm "embracing the multiplicity" a lot.

My immediate response was, "what choice do I have?!" Mostly b/c I KNOW now... I can't pretend it's not a thing or the others don't exist. I can't go back to being ignorant of this. But it was awkward, given HE diagnosed me for him to find this acceptance and "embracing" it to be noteworthy in a "too much" sense.

He noted the YouTube channels (Multiplicity and Me, DissociaDID, and Entropy System- of those he knows of the first one) that I've looked into, the books I've gotten to read (just three of them), and other general research... but mostly that our journal seems to reflect the others being more accessible or available, more likely to write in there than before (particularly true for Pixie, somewhat less for Kitten & Kaleb, rarely for Angel or Chloe... But almost not at all for Satin... None for the others, yet).

So I guess the question is, is there "too much" embracing the multiple nature of us? Is there a point where accepting these parts of us, the system we are and that is "me", is "too much"?
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Re: Embracing Multiplicity (too much?!)

Postby Zor » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:46 pm

So I wanna like add a tad to this. Cuz like one thing that irks me still, often, is the T saying stuff like "you mean YOU think/feel..." or "well YOU are the one feeling this" when Zor mentions something _I_ (or someone else) wrote about and feels/thinks.

He has a very "they're part of you" view still... even to the point of like wanting to push for more like "feelings" stuff, and dismissing that WE are independent of all HIS thinking and views.

Which I can't understand cuz like HE diagnosed us. And the DSM is pretty clear about the criteria for this, and how unique we are, he can't diagnosis this without us meeting that... so I am confused how he holds a more "pieces of Zor" view, than "Zor is part of the system alongside" view.

"The DSM-5 provides the following criteria to diagnose dissociative identity disorder: Two or more distinct identities or personality states are present, each with its own relatively enduring pattern of perceiving, relating to, and thinking about the environment and self." (From WebMD)

That kinda says it all right there. WE EACH have unique perception and relation to the world, and our (system's) experiences in it.

I mean, we all exist cuz of something, and for a reason. When he is all like dismissive of OUR thoughts as if it's just part of HIS... it's very invalidating and kinda insulting. That's how it feels to me anyway. Angel, too, which is why, despite ALL the nightmares (20 nights in October), he doesn't wanna talk to the T. He doesn't wanna be pushed aside to have Zor be the one T focuses on to work through that pain stuff- ANGEL LIVED THROUGH IT. Not Zor.

I mean, we exist for a reason, and Zor (and all of us) are starting to understand, accept, and even "embrace" that... is that really a BAD thing?! And since we DO exist this way, and we DO experience things diff and some of us experienced some things... is it REALLY too much to ask for our T to think about and act ON THAT?! Like WITH us that did live through those things, to not wanna like diminish our role or existence by like saying Zor has to feel and remember it personally first?! Or he'll only do that THROUGH Zor?!

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Re: Embracing Multiplicity (too much?!)

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:14 pm

Maybe he needs to look at the ISSTD guidelines again. It is very clearly contraindicated to treat any one part as more important or central than any other. All the parts are equally important and need to be treated that way--as individuals with their own feelings and thoughts. You've been seeing this guy for while and it seems like his learning curve has leveled out a lot.

This has come up before. Have you guys not told him that it's unhelpful, against the treatment guidelines, and to please cut it out?

Also, addressing the topic of the thread, what is the T's worry about "embracing multiplicity too much?"
You have to get to know your system, and it's made of dissociated parts. How else are you supposed to learn about it?? You're not saying, "Oh, boy, it's great to be this way! Let's stay like this forever!" You're gathering information and support to help with the goals of treatment, and one of the first ones is to increase communication among the parts.
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Re: Embracing Multiplicity (too much?!)

Postby Johnny-Jack » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:49 pm

It's also up to us, the client, to ask the therapist to do or not do certain things. I've had to rewire myself to request how I want the therapy to go. I wasn't a doormat but saying I didn't like (those words exactly) how my therapist did or said or approached certain things was not a habit. Identifying what I or we didn't like was not the easiest or fastest change we've ever made but it's one of the most important.

I've found using a direct phrase like "I don't like it when you..." is more effective that softening my statement in any way. Of course, often it's "we don't like..." or "some of us don't like..." -- whichever is most accurate.

Another direct statement would be "I really need for my therapist, you, to read and follow the ISSTD guidelines, which were developed by a large group of therapists each with extensive experience treating people with DID."

And "when you say .... , it makes me confused" or "it makes some of us mad." Most therapists are going to listen to direct statements like that. It may help to write out what you want to tell the T and rehearse it a bit, say it aloud and see whether it's accurate.

I'm not just speaking to you, Zor and Pixie, I'm suggesting that for any of us who see a therapist. It really may only take a couple direct statements like this to let the therapist know that you're claiming your rights and your power in the relationship. Most people when they hear a statement like that, expressed clearly without a ton of emotion, will hear it and respond. If they don't, you can at least see what a big part of the problem is.
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Re: Embracing Multiplicity (too much?!)

Postby birdsong87 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:46 pm

there is this 'movement' in DID culture that celebrates DID and tries to establish 'system pride' like gay pride, saying that it is normal to be dissociated and that we should celebrate our parts for playing such an important role in our survival. part of 'system pride' is to point out all the differences between parts, what makes them so unique, and increase these differences to express them in their fullness. Integration is not a goal because being dissociated is so much fun and so normal.
that is what I would call too much, although that is just my opinion.
the thing is... I don't believe that this DID subculture is actually embracing the DID. it might look like it, but it is cherry picking. only looking at the funny or quirky things, playing dressing up, but avoiding the trauma. to make the 'plural pride' party fun, the hurting parts must be disowned again. I think this increases the dissociation. Just in a slightly different way, but it happens at the cost of the hurting parts. What I have seen in this subculture is what I would call sophisticated denial. Which is the opposite of embracing DID.

I don't think that this is what you are doing. As the Gang said, we have to get to know each other. We have to learn about DID. fully embracing multiplicity, for me it means fully embracing that the system belongs together, that we are not independent and have to work together and need to be more integrated and heal to make it possible for us all to have a happier life. in that way I don't think you could embrace it enough.
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Re: Embracing Multiplicity (too much?!)

Postby SOHank » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:41 pm

Sunflower's T would see this as good progress.

Communication was the first step towards stability and functioning in daily life for SF system.
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Re: Embracing Multiplicity (too much?!)

Postby Sarandipity » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:44 pm

I worry about that myself sometimes or parts do. I personally worry about it, whoever I am because I'm not too sure right now.

When it got noticed in group therapy 10 years ago I spoke about it in 1-1 therapy VERY superficially. We mostly spoke about how it effected my life - clothes, different religions, different morals, different work preference because I simply wanted a continuous life not the chaos I had. It's got chaotic again because of crisis so I am seeking official diagnosis which I didn't before and a specialist therapist.

I've thought about "embracing" it too much. But thinking about it now someone inside is pushing forward the thought, because it's not my thought my thought is it's simply a worry, that perhaps it's like walking up a hill. You reach the summit, you've embraced it, you can't embrace it anymore and then maybe (I don't know, no part of me can know that) maybe it's then like walking down the other side and you slowly accept and integrate parts.

I haven't read any books yet. Watched multiplicity and me because my bf showed me it. At first I couldn't watch it, I found it hard and it made me cringe but eventually I watched it and I've watched about 3 videos now.

I've been more concerned about what actual therapy for this would involve so I watched a video of a therapist from where I would like to have therapy and he seemed very sensible and practical about it. I feel ok about it now but it's taken maybe 2 years to feel comfortable about seeking an official diagnosis and to feel comfortable about therapy. Talking here has helped, it's made me feel less weird, except when there's very anti-social parts of me apparently they feel weird like other people don't seem to have parts like them but maybe they're paranoid but i have been told off twice here so maybe those parts are right. In don't know.

Anyway I have had the fear of embracing too much but i don't know the pluses and minuses of that. Someone is now pushing forward the thought that you have to embrace it and perhaps too much otherwise how do you fully accept it - which is a good point I guess.
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Re: Embracing Multiplicity (too much?!)

Postby Zor » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:35 pm

So Thinking on all of that- and I am going to try and get the T to be a bit more open to considering the others as individuals WITHIN a whole self, rather than vehicles for hiding FROM self.

Given that he's mentioned wanting to work more on feelings about traumas... would it be appropriate to ask him to talk to Angel about the trauma HE went through- the monsters that touched us- rather than ME, as _I_ never lived through it (aside from physically, which we ALL share a common connection to)... Angel suffered that for us, and HE is the one being tormented by "living it again and again" when there's nightmares and stuff, when it's talked about...

My thinking is this- since _I_ didn't live it directly, it's hard for _ME_ to even remember it, much less process it. Angel, however, did. If I can get the doc to accept THAT and talk to HIM to process it, to get him where he can talk about it, open up... and let go of the painful stuff, and realize he's safe... Wouldn't that open the door for ME to understand it and connect more with Angel, to get to those "feelings" that T is sure I'm avoiding via the alters?!

Is that making any sense at all, or am I totally off base on that?
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Re: Embracing Multiplicity (too much?!)

Postby Zor » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:47 pm

TheGangsAllHere wrote:Maybe he needs to look at the ISSTD guidelines again. It is very clearly contraindicated to treat any one part as more important or central than any other. All the parts are equally important and need to be treated that way--as individuals with their own feelings and thoughts. You've been seeing this guy for while and it seems like his learning curve has leveled out a lot.

This has come up before. Have you guys not told him that it's unhelpful, against the treatment guidelines, and to please cut it out?

Also, addressing the topic of the thread, what is the T's worry about "embracing multiplicity too much?"
You have to get to know your system, and it's made of dissociated parts. How else are you supposed to learn about it?? You're not saying, "Oh, boy, it's great to be this way! Let's stay like this forever!" You're gathering information and support to help with the goals of treatment, and one of the first ones is to increase communication among the parts.



So like we're not sure if "stay like this forever" is our goal or not. Honestly, integration kinda scares me (a lot). the idea of "not existing" anymore and like a whole diff person with like my memories, feelings, etc... that's a terrifying idea for me to even consider right now.
So we've more or less made up our minds that, FOR NOW at least, our goals are just better communication, cooperation, and coexistence. Once we're doing well for most of us THERE, THEN we can work on what to do next and if we wanna integrate (if it doesn't happen on its own as part of the process).

But it's in no way the "system pride" like "gay pride" kinda flaunting it thingy like birdsong87 mentioned. We're kinda quiet about it, actually. While I joke about that "I am we, we are me" shirt I saw online, I'd be scared to ever be so open among the general world cuz of how ignorant about DID most ppl are- and how Hollywood influenced most are. I wouldn't wanna cause a scare and make ppl take us hostile and negative like before they even talk to us. So not gonna happen.

It HAS come up, but like we didn't know how off base he was and if WE were wrong or not... and we're trying to learn and figure it out as we go, too... kinda like he is. So we're sorta like at a point we don't know where we should go- but like we're gonna read that ISSTD thingy, downloaded it... and might print it off if it's not TOO long to share with T.


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Re: Embracing Multiplicity (too much?!)

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:37 am

Zor wrote:So Thinking on all of that- and I am going to try and get the T to be a bit more open to considering the others as individuals WITHIN a whole self, rather than vehicles for hiding FROM self...

...Wouldn't that open the door for ME to understand it and connect more with Angel, to get to those "feelings" that T is sure I'm avoiding via the alters?!


This is very concerning to me on your behalf. There is no "self" to be hiding from. If he still sees Zor as somehow central, and the "parts" as ways of avoiding feelings, then it seems like he hasn't done any reading or consulting at all about how to treat DID. If you felt like this approach was working for you, then I wouldn't be saying anything, but you've expressed many times that it's not helpful when he views Zor as central or more important, and for him to take that a step further and imply that Zor is using alters to "hide" his feelings seems very counterproductive.

Don't print off the guidelines for him. Send him or give him the link, and also steer him toward the courses offered by the ISSTD.

If it were me, I wouldn't let Angel interact with the T unless/until you felt he was going to be treated as an individual who is as important and as much of a client as Zor is.

Also, I wasn't even thinking about integration--my emphasis was more on the fact that you're actively working on improving things by increasing communication, cooperation, etc.

I really think your T needs to step up his game--he is still ignoring basic tenets about how to treat DID.
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