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Accused of Being Demon Possessed

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Re: Accused of Being Demon Possessed

Postby Zor » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:06 pm

Una+ wrote:Zor, you decide. Take your internal temperature, and work from there. Depending on how you feel, where you want to draw your new boundary with B, there are many possible responses. Such as:

<silence>

I don't know what to say.
You don't get to have a "position" on my life.
That entire topic is now off limits to you.
I take direction from experienced, licensed professionals.
I am sorry but I can no longer discuss my personal life with you.
What makes you think you are qualified to diagnose me?
This is my life, not a fantasy role-play game where you can make $#%^ up.
Can't we just have fun on game days?


Ok, Zor here... I see Pixie's relayed the latest, so I am going to reply back a few (this and a really long one from Crows).

So _I_ decided to tell him that I am being thoughtful and prayerful on purpose- by intention. He found that concerning- I don't care. I NEED to be. This is massive and requires respect and care when dealing with everyone (all of us in our system). I will NOT rashly attack one/all of them just on HIS say so- and I found his "if you do this, they'll convince you I/we are wrong" to be concerning, myself.

Honestly that sounds like a sales-job kind of push... a manipulation to discourage you from deciding NOT to buy whatever they're selling. "If you take too much time on this, you'll miss out"... Same kind of pressure...
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Re: Accused of Being Demon Possessed

Postby IainEtc » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:12 pm

Sounds like you're seeing his real meaning here. The idea you should attack your own system on his say-so is a serious problem. Glad you spotted that and re-committed to your system. Stay strong.

Good luck,

Colin
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Re: Accused of Being Demon Possessed

Postby Zor » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:14 pm

Really long post- trying to reply in parts, so look for quote boxes to break up my replies to make it easier to follow (sorry if this makes it really hard to reply back to).

SeveralCrows wrote:If you must, then perhaps, "I'm not sure what's concerning about my contemplation." - That does give him an opening to say more, but it doesn't give him much new to work with.

If you can wait until after your appointment with the doctor, perhaps something that is a lighthearted reassurance that your doctor has whatever opinion - I can only assume positive - about how your treatment is progressing. Either way, those have the infuriating quality of neither confirming his suspicion nor acknowledging his position as valid.


I DID wait until after the appointment- and basically Doc's advice was, if you need to, do it, but don't let it dictate your emotions and actions... and don't initiate a confrontation - as that benefits no one.
I DID directly say I don't get why it seems prayer and thought are bad- his reply basically reads like "do that long enough and you won't agree with me/us". :? THAT makes me think maybe I SHOULDN'T. Seems too much like a sales-pitch, "act now or miss out forever!"

SeveralCrows wrote:That said, it isn't your wife's call whether you reply. I understand she's been intimating that bad things will happen if you don't do exactly as she says, but that's not acceptable.

Do you know what next steps he would have you take, were you to take him seriously?


I do NOT know what he'd do next. Likely distance himself "as a spiritual thing"... whatever... and HE HAS DONE THAT, today... calling off the weekly Bible study that's been largely intermittent for months anyway now.

SeveralCrows wrote:
It's been a few days since I've read most of this thread, and I haven't been able to reply due to my own dissociation, but I think I'm up to it now so I will try to say things I have thought. These are in no particular order, and while all of this is from our system, I'm a little confused on whose reactions are which ones. All of these are about your wife, which feels both entirely off-topic and also like it is at the heart of this topic, as it seems that if you weren't concerned about how this impacts your marriage, you'd just as soon forget S and B altogether.

No worries, I tried to make the subject line VERY CLEAR this could be triggering and how/why. :) I appreciate your input, but don't stress yourself. :)

SeveralCrows wrote:
  1. Have you looked at your wife's FB to see if she and B are discussing you? Seeing as it's okay for her to check on your conversation with B, it shouldn't be a problem to check on her conversation with B. I hesitated in suggesting this because I don't think it's a good idea for partners to have total access like that and it feels icky, paranoid to suggest, and if it is bad then that will be devastating, but it seems only fair.
  2. Is your wife angry that she doesn't have access to other alters' accounts? She previously pried into your journal, even when you explicitly asked her not to, so I'm asking but also assuming the answer is yes. If she is, why would she be angry? What would happen if you changed the password to the account she can access?
  3. Have you started planning an exit strategy? Do you have friends you can rely on if she threatens you or things end? I've had to do this before and it isn't easy, emotionally or logistically, especially with any amount of impairment.
  4. Your wife saying she wants only Zor and none of the alters is a rejection of you as a whole. Saying she doesn't like them and doesn't want a relationship with them is saying she doesn't like you as a whole. She doesn't get to pick and choose pieces of the total you. I'm guessing she has some qualities you wouldn't mind not having to interact with ever again either, but turns out that's not how relationships or human beings work, whether they're multiple or not.
  5. I might be mis-remembering, but I don't think this is the first time you've made reference to doing something to take care of yourselves as being something that would potentially "cost you your marriage." ... meanwhile, your wife rejecting you over and over and insisting that you just MAGICALLY STOP BEING ILL isn't? Your collective refusal to neglect yourselves shouldn't be a problem in a healthy marriage. Your spouse's rejection of you, unwillingness to learn about or even accept your illness, and insisting that you mistreat yourselves are not signs of a healthy marriage.
  6. It sounds like no one in your marriage feels fulfilled or valued right now. Have you asked your wife what she needs to feel happier in the marriage that isn't contingent on being married to someone other than the person she is married to (which is what she's saying with the concept of getting rid of alters)? Does she need a new church community and would you both be okay with her returning to the old church alone if that helped, does she need more quality time with Zor, does she need to feel wooed? These questions go for your system as well.
  7. Were things good in your marriage before you found out you were a system? If they were, aside from the obvious, what is different in the way she and Zor relate now?
  8. Is your wife struggling with not all of you being men? Either in a homophobic or transphobic way or in a struggling with her sexuality way, whether due to being straight or being confronted with a possibility that she isn't? Is she afraid that developing relationships with everyone will mean she has to have a romantic and sexual relationship with everyone in your system?
  9. Does your wife have any friends besides B that she is able to talk to? Or an actual T? If that person is her only outlet, that makes her very vulnerable to his manipulations. I can imagine this is a lot to adjust to and that she would need others to talk to through her emotions, especially the uglier feelings, to get support through however this stresses her.
  10. Would your wife and you as a system be okay with it if your wife only has a deep relationship with Zor, but with the understanding that Zor is going to grow and change (like any human), which may include integrating with others over time, and the understanding that other alters will be around as roommates? What does your system's ideal romantic relationship look like? What is the bare minimum you will accept? Is that something you can achieve with your wife? Refusal to have a relationship with other alters is a refusal of deeper emotional intimacy, but not every marriage is deeply emotionally intimate. If your system and she are both okay with that, then that doesn't have to be as big a problem.

All the above replied to with letters below-
A - I have, and there's not. COULD be via text on her phone, but don't see that either- so IF there is, then it's deleted soon after. Though she DID seem surprised, initially, with what he said that Friday making the "demon possessed" claim he made.
B - IDK if she's angry about that or not- but _I_ don't have that access either. Pixie is considering giving me her phone app pin code so I can see her chats that way if I want to- but it's a thing the doc suggested this morning and she's got to consider it. I respect that, and her privacy, so we'll see where that leads. The account she CAN access is MINE... and IDK what she'd do if I changed that and didn't let her have access- likely be very upset and hurt, and accuse me of "keeping secrets" from her- like she says of the journal.
C - Exit strategy? In case of separation or divorce? Not in the least, actually. Honestly, I keep hoping it WON'T come to that... but if it does, it'll be a very difficult life since I can't drive and get around by myself. Honestly, IDK what I would do.
D - Even if not a rejection of me as a whole (though I don't disagree with you), it is unrealistic. Even before she and I KNEW the others existed, they DID... and signs of it were present- some even OVERT. There was at least a few times that it was evident by them having ME in a skirt or dress and tights while we were dating to "test the waters" on her acceptance of it- BEFORE we married. She KNEW that existed, even if she ignored or rationalized it away... _I_ had no idea WHY I did it then... and it was something I felt ashamed of and scared of... NOW... I still feel weird about it, but it's got a rational reason and that's at least a comfort of its own.
Qualities in her _I_ don't care for... Type A extreme (which makes her great at her job- a cop)... but also demanding, controlling, and focused on HER... "My car", "My house", etc sometimes, more than "our"... which bugs me sometimes... we've been married SEVENTEEN YEARS!
E - It is NOT the first time, you're right. I've always got the consideration of my marriage on my mind... both positively and sacrificially at times... At some point, I agree, she will HAVE to accept and be willing to learn and even accept the alters as part of me. It will be harmful to me, and thus our relationship, if she refuses to do so.
F - There is a distance between us that needs to be resolved b/c of this. In some forms it was there before... due to the sexual nature of some portions of the trauma we had, there's been aversion to and fear of sexual touching and encounters... Not that we NEVER did that, but it was a point of anxiety and almost fear at times for me. So there was a distance between us early and constantly b/c of that. IDK how to rectify that other than to address the trauma and help explain WHY it existed to her, and work WITH the alters to solve this... becoming closer, processing the trauma, and getting PAST IT.
G - Were things good before? Yes and no- As I just alluded to, there WERE points of contention... the privacy, the isolation (I'd often retreat to the den to "hide" with my computer and online stuff she didn't get into or understand)... it was never consciously avoiding her, of course, just sort of my "nature" forever... I'd do that as a teenager, after the trauma was all over and I was safe in Alaska when we'd moved there... even into adult life... I've always been that way (avoidant IS a common trait of people with DID, isn't it?!)
H - I think there is a TON of struggle with the girls in me. No doubt about it. She's been very open about that. She doesn't want to give an inch- like leggings for them to wear around the house alone- b/c, as she says "Next thing I know you'll be prancing around like a fairy in a sun dress!" That is a HUGE hangup. IDK it's "homophopbia" - that's a pandered misnomer... people that disagree aren't "phobic", just different views and beliefs... HOWEVER, she's not seeing THEM for who THEY are- which, while a sort of "TG" element could be argued, would NOT be "gay" in any way... it would, I suppose, be "cross dressing", but she wears mens' jeans exclusively... so... IDK... kind of a double standard that is society-wide there.
I - She is NOT seeing a T or person like that- but I've recommended it before. Even if it's her cousin (who has a bachelor's degree in psychology). But she's never done it. "I prefer to work things out internally". I can't force her to do it, but I think it'd help...
J - The change issue is a hard one- she's noted before that the "old Zor" is what she prefers- referring to "single me" - before we KNEW which is just ignoring that the alters ALREADY EXISTED... but the changes are already here and can't be undone, and IDK I can stop MORE from happening the more whole and connected we get. There will be changes - to them, and me- as I get closer to the alters. That's to be expected, and IDK she accepts that.
I get that she needs to accept them and have some sort of relationship with them- b/c it's ME (in the wholeness sense)... we're ALL one person... even if we're so very fragmented right now...

SeveralCrows wrote:
Our system has different opinions on this topic and it has been a little overwhelming to reply previously because everyone wanted to jump forward to reply. I think I did an okay job channeling most of our varied thoughts into this post, even though order doesn't necessarily make sense. Some parts are angry with your wife and others are just worried about you both and want you to have a chance at fixing things. I hope our many thoughts aren't overwhelming!! I also hope it's clear that we have a lot of respect for your system and how you've stood your ground in light of all of this and that we believe you deserve good things and hope you are able to find happiness, whatever that looks like for you. We trust you'll take care of yourselves how you need to :D

-Crows


Thank you for all your comments, questions, and concerns. It's given me a LOT to think about and I appreciate that right now.

-- Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:16 pm --

IainEtc wrote:Sounds like you're seeing his real meaning here. The idea you should attack your own system on his say-so is a serious problem. Glad you spotted that and re-committed to your system. Stay strong.

Good luck,

Colin


IF that IS his agenda or aim, even if unintentional... sorry, that can't and won't happen. We're working too hard to get this "fixed", to HEAL... to get more connected, communication, and cooperative... so we're healthier and happier as a whole... even if not integrated (that's a long time off before we even consider that).. And attacking US would be divisive and destructive and only make life worse and harder.

-- Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:18 pm --

OFF-TOPIC
For those curious, Pixie's issues SEEMED to be related to using the smilies in the posts she was making. IDK if THAT is it, or the colon character, b/c I tried to post with a comment containing one, without being a smiley, and it made an error. I removed that and replaced it with a dash and it posted fine.
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Re: Accused of Being Demon Possessed

Postby Zor » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:06 pm

The good news is I've had NO reply at all since mine yesterday.
I wonder if there will be distance and other "cutting off" going on now.

I've noticed we're two weeks into August, and NOTHING about going to the prison for that ministry (which S runs, technically but B does all the work and "scheduling" stuff) for this month yet... NO chatter on that chat since early July... I suspect that they removed me from the chat or just started a new one without me so I wouldn't SEE I was being removed/excluded.

Whatever. If that's how it has to be for them, b/c OF THEM... fine...
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Re: Accused of Being Demon Possessed

Postby Una+ » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:43 pm

Really, Zor, you are better off without these people. If you think anyone in the group might be a real friend, reach out to them individually. But be careful. S and B are not your friends.
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Re: Accused of Being Demon Possessed

Postby Zor » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:29 am

Una+ wrote:Really, Zor, you are better off without these people. If you think anyone in the group might be a real friend, reach out to them individually. But be careful. S and B are not your friends.


Yeah, they have demonstrated a severe ignorance problem, if nothing else - and that's the very least...

I WILL miss the prison thing though. That was nice to (and just once a month). It was a sort of fulfilling thing to be able to minister to people seeking it, to teach people wanting to learn, and to have that spiritual need in myself met, too. But there are things I can do about that- more time for my weekend home study group, more time to study personally, and for the bi-weekly online ministry thing I am involved with, too.
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Re: Accused of Being Demon Possessed

Postby Zor » Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:38 pm

It became official this week- the weekly Bible study is over "for the foreseeable future". In other words, "you disagree with us, and we can't prove our position logically or theologically, so we're going to abandon you... the very isolation we're accusing demons of actively causing".

Idiotic. Small-minded. Petty.
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Re: Accused of Being Demon Possessed

Postby IainEtc » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:22 pm

Retaliation. Pretty typical. You're better off without them. Hang in there. It gets better from here.

Colin

Hi Zor,

I'm sorry you lost your group. That really sucks. I wish they weren't so scared and stuff. Maybe you can start your own study group! Like maybe 'Big Demons Bible Study Group' or something (just kidding ok? :D It'd be a cool logo though.)

Iain
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Re: Accused of Being Demon Possessed

Postby Floralie » Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:54 pm

Well now you're abandoned, thing we all knew beforehand. Do you still feel it was better not to make it on YOUR terms but by submissiveness?

My ways were not more than what was needed, yours are way too passive. I'm into boundaries, male hierarchies are not complicated. There's leaders and those who follow. Now the followers listen to B, and you didn't even challenge his ways. In other words, you didn't give yourself a chance to win. I can not understand why, or why your T agrees with such stupidity. If you didn't get these things are about hierarchies, you're a slow learner.

I'd still show our boundary, at least one of the hypocrites is gonna be there anyway, because the wifey is not on your side either. She's a follower to B as well, instead of you. You don't wanna acknowledge how big crime against you that one is, but now is a good time to open your eyes.

Don't let other people decide how your life is, by passively watching what they'll do with it.

Can see you're getting angry. Great.

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Re: Accused of Being Demon Possessed

Postby Zor » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:47 pm

IainEtc wrote:Retaliation. Pretty typical. You're better off without them. Hang in there. It gets better from here.

Colin


Well without that kind of influence and concern around nearly as often, it certainly will! :)

IainEtc wrote:Hi Zor,

I'm sorry you lost your group. That really sucks. I wish they weren't so scared and stuff. Maybe you can start your own study group! Like maybe 'Big Demons Bible Study Group' or something (just kidding ok? :D It'd be a cool logo though.)

Iain


That group name! ROFLMBO Too funny! :D
We keep hoping and praying they'll open their eyes and quit being so cold-hearted and willingly ignorant. If not, it's their loss.
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