Our partner

What do you think of my T?

Dissociative Identity Disorder message board, open discussion, and online support group.

Moderator: Violarules

Re: What do you think of my T?

Postby birdsong87 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:36 pm

fireheart wrote:
Asti, is there any way you could explain how this is typical avoidant behaviour in the eyes of a T? And why would this technique work for people with PDs? (Aren't they generally also traumatizedand have a need to feel safe?)


taking this off topic for a moment

hosts are seen as highly avoidant of their inner experience and host/protectors of vulnerable parts being seen. that is like a prejudice that made it into textbooks because it is kind of common at the beginning of therapy. one of the first milestones of therapy is called 'overcoming the avoidance of the inner experience'. this is textbook stuff. the T just doesn't have a clue how to do it properly.

PDs are seen as a deep pattern of certain behaviors meant to minimize the need to deal with difficult emotions or uncomfortable situations. the theory is that this is why people act out of control or otherwise awkward. therapy tries to teach patients tolerance for the Difficult and the Uncomfortable they experience by a) reducing avoidance and b) teaching coping strategies.
whenever a PD T sees avoidance they seem to tackle it as something that needs to be overcome. They might give a patient a break but then come back to it.
trauma is not part of this treatment concept! So there is no real way to deal with it. things are based on changing present behavior, not processing past stuff. weakness of all classical/radical behavioral therapy approaches.

So when PD Ts get really used to working that way and their own mind gets less flexible when it comes to their patients, they might tackle avoidance the moment they see it. without questioning why it is happening. (I would actually prefer to call it resistance in this case because that seems more accurate for the situation.)

yes, the whole process does not touch on the patients need for safety. there is a reason why I write very critical blog posts about some DBT practices.
Dx: DID cPTSD
L (host 1); Asti (host 2); Annett (teen protector); Maya (child); Age (observer); Thamara (child); Danielle (aut. teen); Mike (caregiver) and others
our blog on resources: https://www.dis-sos.com
birdsong87
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 3378
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:20 am
Local time: Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:48 am
Blog: View Blog (0)


ADVERTISEMENT

Re: What do you think of my T?

Postby Allcoulors » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:13 pm

My old T would try to "get in an arguement" with me sometimes to get me to open up or get a reaction out of me, but always within safe boundries and when I got scared or when she did nog get the reaction she tried to get she would stop and listen to me appoligize if she needed to and explain what she was trying to accomplish.
To me, what your T is doing sounds like my old T butt your T does not know what she is doing very well and is not seeing what is does to you and therfore not meeting your needs and respecting your boundries.
Allcoulors
Consumer 2
Consumer 2
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:51 am
Local time: Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:48 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What do you think of my T?

Postby IainEtc » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:18 am

Hi,

Asti is really smart about this (as usual). Triggering DID people just makes the system defenses go on red alert. I can't imagine how it'd do anything but get everybody seriously twitchy. Nobody learns or changes when they're running around inside the head screaming.

Iain
Iain - 14, Colin - 17, Evan - 7, Cody - 16, Raven, & Host - the adult out front

When they say 'be yourself',
which one do they mean?
User avatar
IainEtc
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 3717
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:34 pm
Local time: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What do you think of my T?

Postby Johnny-Jack » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:47 am

9 months of no progress,.followed by textbook example of what a string of mistakes by a therapist looks like. Your instincts are strong and healthy and serve you all well. She just flunked the "encourage trust" test. We're so sorry that happened to you!
74 of us. Dx=DID. John, Johnny, Ryder hosts. Sphinx. Gwendolyn 50s. Marc-Dominic, Aaron, Gaul 40s. Jonathan 33. Neville 20. Quato 19. Kyle 16. Ulric, Calvin, Daniel 15. Faolán 14. Mick/Mxyzptlk, Hoyt, Eberly, Flynn, Cam, Cully, Abel, Will, Tuck, Gordon, Pehr 13. Nigel 12. Orval, Jack 11. Abraham, Zane, Ty, Randy 10. Brody 9. Sky, Yanni, Vince, Luke, Hank, Xavi 8. Cole, Matt, Chase 7. Andre, Godwin, Greg, Carter, Estes, Seamus 6. Michael, Caleb, Inky, Kent 5. twins Hansel & Johann, Bartholomew, Casper, Raisin Annie, Scott, Wats 4. Pip, Max, Little John 3. Erik, Carl, Sheldon, Ben, Alvin, Ashár, Henry 2. Edward, Clark 1. Zeb, Adam <1
User avatar
Johnny-Jack
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 2710
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 3:07 pm
Local time: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:48 am
Blog: View Blog (40)

Re: What do you think of my T?

Postby Menagerie » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:25 am

It's been ages since I've (we've) posted here I think, but I had to log in just to comment on this. I had a therapist who did things like this. She would also say that she wouldn't talk to a certain one of us until a different one had talked to her - stuff like that. The last session I ever had with her she tried to "trigger" me into anger by pretending to be my mom. She wanted to make me angry so she could see who was angry or talk to them or whatever. It was awful. We collapsed internally. And we could never work it out with her (tried via phone and email). SO glad we don't have her as a therapist anymore.. Been a long journey between then and now...but I've got to tell you...I have a psychiatrist who didn't even believe DID was a thing until he started working with me. So he's had to learn as he goes and I can tell you that he's never done anything approaching something like this. In fact, he started writing us prescriptions that said "Whatever you bring in here is fine." and "Everyone is welcome here" - stuff like that (with infinity symbols on the refills line). Trust your gut. Someone who would do this and not recognize it's wrong is too behind the curve for you to try to educate. At least...that is my opinion. I wouldn't be up for that unless they wanted to pay to see me :)
A menagerie of one. Some of us are Michelle, Chris, Kathryn, Sarah, Bobby, Lisa, Christie, Krystal, D.
User avatar
Menagerie
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:58 pm
Local time: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (2)

Re: What do you think of my T?

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:07 pm

Menagerie wrote:he started writing us prescriptions that said "Whatever you bring in here is fine." and "Everyone is welcome here" - stuff like that (with infinity symbols on the refills line).


That is heartwarming to hear. My T writes us a similar note at the end of every session and sticks it in our journal--something encouraging and supportive to hold on to until the next time we see him.

There are good Ts out there--they are just hard to find.
TheGangsAllHere
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 2754
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:15 am
Local time: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What do you think of my T?

Postby SOHank » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:25 pm

To play a little devil’s advocate here, I do think its important for a T to push a bit outside of the comfort zone on occasion. I’ve seen this pushing help SF several times. Similar to what Allcolours said.

The last place I worked talked about having circles. We are usually in our comfort zone. Pushing outside the comfort zone can enable learning. Pushing too far though puts us in the panic zone which is a negative thing…. A T that can push outside the comfort zone at times, but stay away from panic zone can be beneficial.

However, it doesn’t sound like it was done well, or at least the timing was off. DID requires the T to be patient also… SF’s insiders didn’t like being identified at first, but after relationships were built with the first few, others decided to take small steps toward opening up as well. I would bet that others were watching and listening even if they didn’t make their presence known.

I would address your concerns with the T for sure.

FYI, SF was about 6-8 months in before anyone showed themselves to her T as well. The T suspected DID, but was talking about wrapping things up by the end of the year with SF’s nightmares when Emma spoke up. I met Emma and LR within a week or two of that. (Not sure that even the T has ever met LR.) Lou started to sneak out shortly after as well as Dinah (but mistook for Lou). AJ did NOT want to be identified and neither did Meg. Several others joined later after watching a while. But we most all get along well now even though some will mention how weird and also nice it is to not have to stay hidden all the time. :wink:
Married to SunflowerGals
SOHank
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:45 pm
Local time: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What do you think of my T?

Postby Floralie » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:43 pm

Didn't read what was talked about in here before, so answer is to the OP.

TRIGGERING PARTS OUT WITHOUT SYSTEM'S CONSENT IS MIND CONTROL. Doing it with the negative trigger is even worse. If they do not have patience to work with DID they should not treat it.
Floralie F main front
Sami M 16(-26) defender
Lucas M 16 self care manager
Fourteen M 14 main trauma holder with DID-system:
- Little Leon M 4
Ferro M 14/24
Rami M 25 inner caretaking manager, inner protector
Anastasia F 26 inner caretaker, female sexuality
?? M 25-28 inner caretaker of Fourteen's
User avatar
Floralie
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 712
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:50 pm
Local time: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:48 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What do you think of my T?

Postby Zor » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:53 pm

SOHank wrote:To play a little devil’s advocate here, I do think its important for a T to push a bit outside of the comfort zone on occasion. I’ve seen this pushing help SF several times. Similar to what Allcolours said.

Our T has done that a time or two, directly addressing Pixie while talking to me... "Pixie, if you're listening..." and saying things like "I know you think you need to protect him from all this, but Zor needs to know, and he can survive knowing without you hiding from him now." That kind of stuff.
He has encouraged us to experiment with positive triggers (since knowing what they are and that song incident I posted here a few weeks ago about)... Things to help encourage, foster, and improve communication and cooperation between us...

BUT this is always done in a safer and non-threatening way and NEVER with the nightmares or thoughts of the trauamatic and/or painful stuff. Certainly not in a "let me remind you, to cause X person to come out" sort of way. THAT is crossing a line from "pushing comfort zones" to directly being hostile. THAT, imho, can cause more harm than good.

SOHank wrote:The last place I worked talked about having circles. We are usually in our comfort zone. Pushing outside the comfort zone can enable learning. Pushing too far though puts us in the panic zone which is a negative thing…. A T that can push outside the comfort zone at times, but stay away from panic zone can be beneficial.

However, it doesn’t sound like it was done well, or at least the timing was off. DID requires the T to be patient also… SF’s insiders didn’t like being identified at first, but after relationships were built with the first few, others decided to take small steps toward opening up as well. I would bet that others were watching and listening even if they didn’t make their presence known.

I would address your concerns with the T for sure.

I agree, manner in HOW it was done, likely WHEN too... very wrong. These SHOULD be discussed with your T. In fact, good AND bad things should be. The only way to get good therapy is effective communication about methods and practices WITH the T.

SOHank wrote:
FYI, SF was about 6-8 months in before anyone showed themselves to her T as well. The T suspected DID, but was talking about wrapping things up by the end of the year with SF’s nightmares when Emma spoke up. I met Emma and LR within a week or two of that. (Not sure that even the T has ever met LR.) Lou started to sneak out shortly after as well as Dinah (but mistook for Lou). AJ did NOT want to be identified and neither did Meg. Several others joined later after watching a while. But we most all get along well now even though some will mention how weird and also nice it is to not have to stay hidden all the time. :wink:


I forget how long it took Pixie to come out in the T's office for us... but it was MANY months... at least 6-7, too. Kitten has come out ONCE and only once... NO ONE else has yet. Trust like that takes a bit of time and relationship building- all the more reason for a T to be careful NOT to damage that trust and relationship foolishly and recklessly.
(Body - Male, 39)
Zor - primary host & main poster
The rest of us: {\Pixie/}, Kaitie-Lynn (aka "Kitten"), Kaleb, Angel, Katya, Satin, Charles, Chloe, Noah, and a few rarely seen
User avatar
Zor
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 972
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 12:32 pm
Local time: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:48 pm
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: What do you think of my T?

Postby Floralie » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:43 pm

I know Sami is every time listening to what we talk about. That's his job as a defender. He has not come out, because there has been nothing he needed to get involved with, and T has not communicated straight at him although I've told I know he hears everything. He has been that much present I needed to sit in different place, because Sami prefers a lot of personal space, I spoke with lower tone and needed to sit sideways because my legs felt so stupidly short. He's not really co-operative with someone outside the system, so it will take a lot from him to come and talk to T, because he only has a reason to do so, if he needs to defend us. He's not into making friends, he approves or doesn't approve and that's it. And T respects his choice to just be there and not interfere.

T takes it as an honor to meet a part and she welcomes them and thanks them because they came. It's a sign of trust for them to come. Only trigger we use is to make things feel relaxed, safe and comfortable, so everyone feels it's safe to come. Once she rushed and asked questions from a part who was not aware of answers to questions asked, and got overwhelmed by them. Then she admitted she rushed, and that it is something she does sometimes, and she was happy we said no. She made sure we know it is her problem she can be too curious, and if we feel she is, we draw a line and tell that. We wanted an apology and had it. So we were fine again and continued. I rushed too and took my part of the responsibility for things going wrong, but if she would not have admitted her part on it, we would have continued with the subject until it happens. Simply, because it's an adult thing to do, to look where you did wrong when things didn't work. We don't do therapy if T acts like a rebellious teen that knows everything better, when she doesn't. We are allowed to act like rebellious teen, she is not. But that is not what happened with OP and their T.

Parts who come out when system gets triggered are either defenders to make it stop, or they are parts that think this is trauma, and they probably do not understand time and place. They know they are scared and now they need to face someone who threaten the system to the point they needed to come out to take the abuse. Now that is not a friendly push to get over a boundary that is no longer needed. It's a push that proofs high security is needed in deed, because there is someone who doesn't give a $#%^ about your boundaries.

In our system it would be the defender first, and anyone with trauma would be hidden better and T would be confronted for her abusive behavior and there should be pretty good explanations and ability to do some self reflecting, instead of looking the fault in us, for things to continue. For systems that are still so much in trauma time in their mind that it will be a trauma part who gets triggered, pushing like that is straight out retraumatizing. Threatening to act ways that crosses your boundaries if you don't deliver parts out when T wants is just wrong, nothing else. There will be no trust, so there will be no healing. What other purposes there are to do therapy than to heal? There will be just mind control if T manages to make it work. And you never try to have control over system that system itself doesn't have. You can only ask parts out when needed, when system has that kind of co-operation they can do that and want to do that because they trust you, and then you can use positive triggers if they approve.

It is one thing when parts want to come but you stop them. Then it's just you avoiding and being selfish. It's another thing when parts just won't show up and you have zero control over it. It's not T's job to take control, because that is abusive. It's something that can not be done to a person with single mind, and people with single mind won't understand what it means they can pull out the reaction they choose, and how intrusive it is if they can.

We'd never ask a part out to an unsafe environment, and T who uses punishments is unsafe. Because of animal training, we are too aware of theories about learning, that we'd ever co-operate with someone so old fashioned they actually use punishments. First of all it's ethically wrong. Second, you do not use techniques I don't approve to me. Third, you should know punishments slow down the learning process and destroy trust. Fourth, WHAT THE F ARE YOU THINKING WHEN YOU THINK IT'S GOOD TO RULE WITH FEAR.

T's are not authorities to us.

Write down every point in this thread you agreed with and shove it under T's nose. I wanna hear their excuses too, or an apology.

Floralie & Sami
Floralie F main front
Sami M 16(-26) defender
Lucas M 16 self care manager
Fourteen M 14 main trauma holder with DID-system:
- Little Leon M 4
Ferro M 14/24
Rami M 25 inner caretaking manager, inner protector
Anastasia F 26 inner caretaker, female sexuality
?? M 25-28 inner caretaker of Fourteen's
User avatar
Floralie
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 712
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:50 pm
Local time: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:48 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to Dissociative Identity Disorder Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: IainEtc, TeddyBear the helper and 78 guests