Our partner

TW Docs advice to destroy drawing of alter and abuser

Dissociative Identity Disorder message board, open discussion, and online support group.

Moderator: Violarules

TW Docs advice to destroy drawing of alter and abuser

Postby walden » Fri May 17, 2019 2:42 am

Hoping to get some advice on this topic- Careful y'all, we discuss abuse here, SA and being locked up.

This all started when I realized I could lock up parts in a room inside the internal world. I told the doc I sent an alter to lock-up because his internal conversations are very abusive and negative. He is a very stoic/negative part, but also very defensive. There have been some major changes since this happening, and also some increases in dissociation (you lock me up, I'll lock you up). I have also had terrible nightmares of being locked in jail and being attacked, or getting arrested and charged with a terrible crime I didn't commit. These nightmares are super scary, and they stick with me throughout the next day. Spaciness and trancing out has increased..but it's better than the constant negativity we were exposed to when this part was not "locked up"! Also, the dissociation is less like a fog in which I'm behind this guy..It's now more amnesic and spacey.

She told me she see's this part as a representation of an adult abuser. Not sure I agree, but not sure I disagree. She also recommended that I draw memories of abuse. She explained that the purpose is to get a view of the abuse from new/different angles as a way to process it. So I did just that, and shared one sketch with her. It was a very troubling drawing. Showing her the drawing was intense - my heart was racing, my skin felt like it was burning and freezing at the same time...the little guy inside was sick to his stomach, and the locked up part was all about the "I told you so".

To me it seems like these nightmares are coming from having a part in "internal jail"..I'm not sure I agree that he deserves to be called an abuser, but I don't disagree that he is very negative. I wonder if she is deriving this conclusion from IFS therapy constructs. I'm also uncertain about the idea of destroying a drawing of a part, regardless of whether or not he is representative of an abuser, Any ideas on this??
walden
Consumer 5
Consumer 5
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:40 am
Local time: Wed May 22, 2019 11:50 am
Blog: View Blog (0)


ADVERTISEMENT

Re: TW Docs advice to destroy drawing of alter and abuser

Postby myce » Fri May 17, 2019 4:58 am

I disagree with your therapist. It triggered my littles fearful and upset at the suggestion of hurting a protector. And so I think yours might be a subsystem including traumatized parts and their protector/proxy. The not-so-nice part could be patterned after an abuser because that is what they have learned, but it doesn't mean they have to be an abuser. Sometimes they torment you because they need someone to listen or feel what they (their subsystem) have felt. They can become less negative over time if they feel acknowledged.
OSDD self-dx
42f
myce
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 345
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:40 pm
Local time: Wed May 22, 2019 9:50 am
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: TW Docs advice to destroy drawing of alter and abuser

Postby fireheart » Fri May 17, 2019 6:27 am

Ok, so in essence, every part tries to do good for the system and protect it. Sometimes they are just working with outdated information.

We have a part who is very controlling and negative, and at some point found out that it was because they internalized our family's rules and wanted to make sure we could avoid outside-punishment.

Locking up parts is, in my opinion, never a good idea. Would you like to get locked up? I would be very scared. I believe it is important to be kind and caring to every part.
If they are very negative, my response would be to thank them for protecting in the past. But things are different now and you don't have to be mean anymore. Now it is like this: ...
I would try to find out what they like and give them some special attention/time for that.
In our case, the negative part turned out to be quite young. This made it easier to have empathy for them and the situation that caused them to develop in this way.
Control and conflict tend to lead to more control and conflict.

Someone I know found out one part was locked up inside and as some sort of middle ground they expanded the area and they also gave it a button to press if you want to say something, so that the part could still be heard.
Someone else I know offered a difficult part that they were safe now and could go to sleep for now.
These are different than what I would do, because I can't access the inner world, so I can't really say anything to them. Putting it out there so you know there are more possible solutions. Just make sure not to do something you wouldn't like having done to you.

About the drawing, only destroy it if the part who drew it wants that too.
fireheart
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 665
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:37 pm
Local time: Wed May 22, 2019 5:50 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: TW Docs advice to destroy drawing of alter and abuser

Postby Dwelt » Fri May 17, 2019 10:06 am

When no one was really aware of each other here, my job was to try to organize that mess we were from the inside. I though that locked up the one with anger issues will be a good solution. It was, at first. But now I totally regret it. It made his issues worse. He felt he was alone with his anger and pain, and when Plume finally convinced me to let him out, he was less able to control himself than before. It took him two/three years to heal.
Now, we have a rule : no one is allowed to lock up anyone else. If there's an issue, we talk about it and find a solution together, because we need each other to stay balanced.

- Daem


But we get why lock up a negative protector could be seen as a good idea. When we faced Claude (protector/persecutor alter) for the first time, the only thing that prevent us to lock him up was the rule Daem mentionned. He's an introject of my father, most of us were scared by him and his favorite game was to trigger Kal and I. Locking him up tempted a lot of us.

Instead, we told him that we agree to let him do his protector job his own way if he agreed to follow some rules. We asked for three things : "stop persecuting the others inside" ; "never attack friends, no matter what" (because he didn't understand the difference between someone willingly trying to hurt us, and someone who hurt us by accident) ; "ask before doing anything outside" (because he doesn't know when he's overreacting). In exchange, we listen to him, consider his opinion, and even if he never asks for it, he knows we are here if he needs help.

It took him a year to understand why he should follow the rules and why we needed them. Daem and I had to repeat them a lot, to be really careful about him, ready to stop him from being co-present in the body at any time if he didn't follow the rules. When he tried to attack someone else inside, we said things like "okay, you're trying to make us behave because you think we're doing a mistake. You know, you can just say 'I think you're wrong' to us, we will listen". Then we considered his opinion and adjusted what we were planning to do if his opinion seemed valid. If it didn't, because he was reacting more with trauma memories than with the actual situation, we explained to him, and told him he could do whatever he wanted if it appear we were wrong. This way, he felt less exposed, and could see that he was wrong, we're adult now, and he doesn't need to be ready to attack 24/7.

It wasn't easy at all, but now he doesn't attack anyone inside anymore, he still overreacts but wait for our opinion before doing anything, and he also noticed he's less involved into conflict with outside people since then.
Conflicts and manipulating others were the only way to interact he knew, he liked (and still like) it, but he learned other ways, admitted peace wasn't that bad, and he doesn't want to be associated with my father anymore. Even if not everyone likes him inside, we all know we need him to face people like my father, and he makes efforts to belong to the group, so... yeah, he's part of our family now.

All of this to say : he may be negative, he may be an introject of your abuser, but he's not your abuser. He's a part of "you-all" and can learn and makes compromises. It can take a long time for him to understand why rules are important, but if they allow him to be himself as well as protecting you-all, he will learn to respect them.

And about the drawing, I'm not sure destroying something a part created without his or her consent is a good thing... In our system, I wouldn't even think about it, it would create a mess.

- Plume
French system

Duo 1 : Plume, outside-manager | Daemon, inside-manager
Duo 2 : Kal, protector | Erdian, social-manager

"Little" group : Nicolas | Linda | Nathan | Ethan

Second group : Lea | Cassandra | Varegh, protector | Claude, protector
User avatar
Dwelt
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:01 am
Local time: Wed May 22, 2019 5:50 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: TW Docs advice to destroy drawing of alter and abuser

Postby Floralie » Fri May 17, 2019 10:14 am

I've linked this video in this Forum two times already, but I'll continue doing so as long as it's the best way I've heard anyone explaining this. It's from MultiplicityAndMe's channel, and the video is called "Why persecutors aren't bad". As you can see, it's about persecutors, but I think it's the same basic things with every part that feels difficult to deal with. You treat them all with respect, and you try to understand their point of view and their REASONS for why they are like they are, and then love them into pieces to cure them and let them see the light, even when they will put up a fight and don't wanna be loved, because they don't believe in such things. But you need to work on their terms and not force them into too much at once, and NEVER hurt them back.

You have seen the nightmares how it feels to be locked up, and the one who is, is having those feelings and probably huge anger, and they're right. They should not be in there, they have right to be angry about it, and all they wanna do is to come back and do what ever it takes from them to be able to start to do their job again. And that's what you need to understand, they have a job to do, and even if their ways are harmful now, they were once needed, and you owe to them. Respect them, and cherish them. You don't have to agree on their methods, that's what you need to understand WHY. And they can learn better ways, and start to be helpful the way that actually helps you now too. That's their big lesson to learn, but they will not be willing to learn from someone who they consider as their enemy. And they have a reason to see you that way now, after you used your power WRONG WAY AGAINST THEM. You owe a serious apology.

Here's the link, please look the vid, it's just about ten minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZANla33sb8&t=548s

You should never do anything that breaks the trust between parts, because co-operation is the only way to get better long term. Easy solutions may help for a while, but in long term it makes things way worse and destroys what could've been there.

I see all parts who are not-so-nice as someone, who are willing to sacrifice a lot and even be hated, so others don't have to do the dirty work. I think it's fair to admit you were wrong and explain you didn't know what to do. You can share your problem with them: I felt I needed to do it, because of ..and how their behavior affected negatively in here (not blaming, no "because you do this and are like this", but how they affect).., so it wasn't personal, and that thing is still a problem. What do THEY think you (together) could do to fix the problem?

You know you don't have to be scared of them, because you are stronger than them. Otherwise you would not have that power to lock them up. And you need to realize you ARE stronger, and then use your strength fair ways, not to punish anyone just because you can. You know how awful it feels to be locked up, because they shared it with you.
Floralie F main front
Sami M 16 defender
Lucas M 16 self care manager
Fourteen M 14 main trauma holder with DID-system:
- Leon M 4 ANP-little -> in changing process
Ferro M 14/24
Rami M 25 inner caretaker manager, inner protector
Anastasia F 26 inner caretaker, female sexuality
User avatar
Floralie
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:50 pm
Local time: Wed May 22, 2019 7:50 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: TW Docs advice to destroy drawing of alter and abuser

Postby SOHank » Fri May 17, 2019 6:19 pm

Dwelt, I just want to say that your post is inspirational. We are going through something similar to what Walden posted in SF’s system with “the Man”.

I do 95% agree with not locking anyone up and definitely not long term. For short durations when the alternate is significant self harm is my exception. This is where SF is currently with “the Man.” We do make sure he is not alone and does have means of communication.

I’m 100% in agreement that time, love, and reason will prevail. I’ve seen it in others in SF’s system as well as on this forum. It takes patience, sometimes a LOT of it. There are times when I say to myself, “I am a stone, I will persevere.” :wink: :lol:

As for destroying the picture… If he drew it I certainly wouldn’t. Alternately, how about drawing a new one instead. Maybe draw where you hope to be with your system in the future. :D
Married to SunflowerGals
SOHank
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:45 pm
Local time: Wed May 22, 2019 10:50 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: TW Docs advice to destroy drawing of alter and abuser

Postby Johnny-Jack » Fri May 17, 2019 6:48 pm

fireheart wrote:About the drawing, only destroy it if the part who drew it wants that too.

Yeah, really, and even then think twice. The therapist suggests you draw from memories of the abuse. That happens and then she suggests you destroy the drawing!? OMG, why would some of you trust her after that? The response should have been: thank you so much for contributing!

Aside from that, I regret over decades destroying all sorts of old writings and artwork, which were done by probably dozens of us, mostly because they made us uncomfortable or we couldn't connect to them. It makes me sad just to contemplate how much we've lost.
74 of us. Dx=DID. John, Johnny, Ryder hosts. Sphinx. Gwendolyn 50s. Marc-Dominic, Aaron, Gaul 40s. Jonathan 33. Neville 20. Quato 19. Kyle 16. Ulric, Calvin, Daniel 15. Faolán 14. Hoyt, Cam, Cully, Flynn, Tuck, Abel, Eberly, Will, Gordon, Pehr, Mick/Mxyzptlk 13. Nigel 12. Orval, Jack 11. Abraham, Zane, Ty, Randy 10. Brody 9. Sky, Yanni, Vince, Luke, Hank, Xavi 8. Cole, Matt, Chase 7. Andre, Godwin, Greg, Carter, Estes, Seamus 6. Michael, Caleb, Inky, Kent 5. Casper, Bartholomew, Raisin Annie, Scott, twins Hansel & Johann, Wats 4. Pip, Max, Little John 3. Erik, Carl, Sheldon, Alvin, Ashár, Henry 2. Edward, Clark, Zeb 1. Adam <1
User avatar
Johnny-Jack
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 2683
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 3:07 pm
Local time: Wed May 22, 2019 12:50 pm
Blog: View Blog (40)

Re: TW Docs advice to destroy drawing of alter and abuser

Postby walden » Sat May 18, 2019 2:34 am

myce wrote:...The not-so-nice part could be patterned after an abuser because that is what they have learned, but it doesn't mean they have to be an abuser. Sometimes they torment you because they need someone to listen or feel what they (their subsystem) have felt. They can become less negative over time if they feel acknowledged.


Yea I was unsettled when she said she saw him as a part modeled after an abuser. It turned my stomach! He is the one that can send me/us into the music room when necessary (a safety room, when here, we either have no awareness of what is happening, or we are watching it from afar..There is always music playing that we can focus on and enjoy :) ) He also chose the career path, and even though high school and college was tremendously affected by amnesia and depression, "We" managed to pull through with a good career. The reason for putting him in prison is because he minimizes serious bad memories and seems to abuse/minimize what other parts feel/say. He is also the part that has blurted out "I hate you" when we/I look in the mirror.
Thank you for your thoughts and advice, I really appreciate them!

fireheart wrote:...Someone I know found out one part was locked up inside and as some sort of middle ground they expanded the area and they also gave it a button to press if you want to say something, so that the part could still be heard.
Someone else I know offered a difficult part that they were safe now and could go to sleep for now.
These are different than what I would do, because I can't access the inner world, so I can't really say anything to them. Putting it out there so you know there are more possible solutions. Just make sure not to do something you wouldn't like having done to you.

About the drawing, only destroy it if the part who drew it wants that too.

I really like the button idea. I just started reading a book called "Got Parts?" An Insider's Guide to Managing Life Successfully with Dissociative Identity Disorder (New Horizons in Therapy) ..I highly recommend it. The author touches on an idea similar to the button.

Johnny-Jack wrote:Yeah, really, and even then think twice. The therapist suggests you draw from memories of the abuse. That happens and then she suggests you destroy the drawing!? OMG, why would some of you trust her after that? The response should have been: thank you so much for contributing!


She is big on bringing up the fact that this abuse has already happened and will never happen again. It is not part of present time. Destroying the picture helps bring home that fact. I was uneasy about the idea of destroying a picture of this part along with the abuse..I really don't think she understands what is going on at all sometimes.
walden
Consumer 5
Consumer 5
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:40 am
Local time: Wed May 22, 2019 11:50 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: TW Docs advice to destroy drawing of alter and abuser

Postby Floralie » Sat May 18, 2019 12:25 pm

walden wrote:She is big on bringing up the fact that this abuse has already happened and will never happen again. It is not part of present time. Destroying the picture helps bring home that fact. I was uneasy about the idea of destroying a picture of this part along with the abuse..I really don't think she understands what is going on at all sometimes.


Symbolic idea like that can only work with a part who understands realities, and then chooses to let go and therefor destroy the picture themself. Someone else can not do it FOR them for the symbolism to work. And if that part is little one, they probably won't understand that anyway, because it's symbolic.

For that part who continues minimizing others' feelings, you just need to repeat every time that everyone has their own feelings and someone else can not tell how they are like. If they themself didn't think it was bad, it's their opinion and feeling about it, and you're OK with it. (That is why they can do things parts who are more traumatized can't.) So instead of minimizing, they should also say thank you for all who keep those hard feelings with them. And if they are not ready to understand that, at least shut up about things they do not know about, like what someone else feels or experiences or did before, because it's all just guessing game and opinions, not truth. Everyone is allowed to talk about their own views, and everyone has to leave others' views be.
Floralie F main front
Sami M 16 defender
Lucas M 16 self care manager
Fourteen M 14 main trauma holder with DID-system:
- Leon M 4 ANP-little -> in changing process
Ferro M 14/24
Rami M 25 inner caretaker manager, inner protector
Anastasia F 26 inner caretaker, female sexuality
User avatar
Floralie
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:50 pm
Local time: Wed May 22, 2019 7:50 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)


Return to Dissociative Identity Disorder Forum




  • Related articles
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bejolley2, birdsong87, MakersDozn, TC1 and 53 guests