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Re: Body name

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:59 am

fireheart wrote:I'm a bit triggered because I feel like she didn't listen to me and didn't take it into account. A protector part sent her an email asking to please call me by my name, not anything else.
And she replied: "I don't know what to do with this."


fireheart wrote:she wants parts to ask my permission and then her permission to come to therapy? Somehow that is really scary, too. (Feels intrusive for some reason? Like, let the system do their work? I think everyone would be way too scared to make themselves explicitly known and to hear a possible no).


I agree with what everyone else has said. And I'm so sorry this is happening, fireheart! I know how hard it was for you to switch therapists, and how you were careful to find someone who presented themselves as knowing how to treat DID.

It is very clear that she does not have up-to-date knowledge of the current theory and how it is applied in clinical practice. Those two aspects of her approach, that I quoted above, are directly contradicted by the ISSTD guidelines. No one part is to be treated as more important than another--that is a very basic tenet of treatment, and parts are to be called what they prefer to be called, unless it seems countertherapeutic (I guess like a very denigrating name or something).

The guidelines are on isst-d.org: https://www.isst-d.org/wp-content/uploa ... ED2011.pdf

I would ask her to read the treatment recommendations before your next meeting, and let her know that you were (are) expecting the type of treatment that is supported by current research. She may need to take one of the online classes that the isstd has.

Just imagine that you went to any type of doctor for the treatment of an illness or injury, and the treatment they offered was 20-30 years out of date! I don't think you would be sticking around.

But if (big IF) she shows that she is flexible and willing to learn (not just from you, but to educate herself), and she otherwise seems empathic and caring, then maybe it could work.
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Re: Body name

Postby Sarandipity » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:56 pm

Basically I feel exactly like you do and there's no part that has the given name here either. Also in our overall opinion this therapist you're seeing is an idiot.
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Re: Body name

Postby Floralie » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:43 pm

No response before called correctly. Stare, wait.

Takes too much time? Replace with better one.

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Sami M 16 defender
Lucas M 16 self care manager
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Re: Body name

Postby fireheart » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:20 pm

Thank you for all the support. We're seriously, seriously considering not working with this T.

If I can, I'd like to avoid having to find another one - so, I'm basically hanging onto any last bits of hope/trust.
Do you think it is possible that she wants to promote control over switching so that it would be safe? e.g. so a little won't end up having to go home by herself?

And about the name-thing; that we will not dissociate too much from the body name?

I don't think there's hope for her, because she also said that the parts had to protect <body name>. That clearly points towards seeing one part as the center of the system. I don't see it like that at all.

I don't know how to handle it. I think I may need to explain how our system works and then see how she responds? The thing is, I thought I'd already done that (at least somewhat). :(
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Re: Body name

Postby birdsong87 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:47 pm

we would ask her where she is going with her rules, why she thinks this is important.
and if she talks outdated $#%^ Asti would probably give her a lecture via email.
but we would get up and go and explain it later in writing.
we would give her a chance to explain, right now we all are just guessing and guessing opens doors for all kinds of negative feelings. but they were created over a narrative we invented. so to be sure, the conversation has to take place.
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our blog on resources: https://www.dis-sos.com
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Re: Body name

Postby fireheart » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:10 pm

In session I actually did ask her to explain why we would need permission, but I did not understand her explanation.
She said that she used to teach other therapists and she would let one of them play the therapist and one of them the client. The rest had to wait outside of the room for a while, while she would tell them what alters they would play. Then everyone would enter and the "alters" would comment on everything (which would normally be inside, but now it was visible).

After she said this, I repeated my question: "Why is it important to ask for permission?"

Then she said that I would also not like it if another therapist would suddenly enter the room and take her place.

I asked again, "but why would you need permission?"

Then she said that I probably also have rules for work that not all parts are allowed to just come. That would be rude. Only if they would ask me first, maybe it would be OK.
I understand this, because we do have rules for work... but I still don't agree because work is such a different thing from therapy.
I said: "Oh, so it could be rude?"
And she said something like "Yes, you want to all be respectful and kind to each other. Shoving someone out of the way is not that."

So... I guess it is a little more nuanced, now I see it written out like that. But I still feel like she should work with all of us, not only see me as her client.

-------------------- added later:
And, this is not how the system seems to work? We don't "shove each other out of the way"... we cooperate and if a part feels especially triggered or protective, or needed, they step forward. To keep the system going, not to be rude.
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Re: Body name

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:56 pm

fireheart wrote:So... I guess it is a little more nuanced, now I see it written out like that. But I still feel like she should work with all of us, not only see me as her client.

-------------------- added later:
And, this is not how the system seems to work? We don't "shove each other out of the way"... we cooperate and if a part feels especially triggered or protective, or needed, they step forward. To keep the system going, not to be rude.


No, it isn't nuanced. It's just wrong. No one part is more important than another, and it can cause a lot of damage to proceed under that assumption.

Therapy is supposed to be different than anywhere else. A place where everyone in the system can eventually feel safe, known, understood, and free to be themselves. Parts need to be encouraged and welcomed, not required to ask someone for permission.

I see you making excuses for her, trying to give her the benefit of the doubt despite your instincts that this isn't good for you.

Did you ask her to read the ISSTD guidelines? She is literally 20-30 years out of date with her understanding about this (at least based on what you've described). She absolutely needs to work with all of you--the system is her client. That's very basic, and if she really can't get that, I think you need to find someone who actually knows how to treat DID.
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Re: Body name

Postby fireheart » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:41 pm

I don't feel well-versed/confident enough to back up my experiences with research to her. That seems kind of defiant. So I just want to say to her: the way I experience this is that all parts are equally important and I am just another part. Together we make up the whole. We want to share experiences and lower dissociative barriers, so that we can come closer. We already work together a lot and there are barely ever "fights". Communication helps to resolve conflict. All parts are welcome and I want all parts to feel safe and to connect to the present life.
Asking for permission seems to disrespect how well we usually work together and how the needs of all parts matter equally. (And it triggers trauma-stuff).

I read through the guidelines and the clinical language sparks a lot of avoidance on the inside. I think she does most of this and it seems possibly rude to ask her to read them.

It's possible that it is just not a good match. Her thing seems to be hypnosis, and I find hypnosis really creepy/dissociative and would prefer something like body work.

I don't want to draw premature conclusions though. It's going to be another week or more before I see her again and can discuss.
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Re: Body name

Postby Floralie » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:43 pm

I know there are Ts in my country who only talk with one part of the system and hear others opinions thru that one only. I know some traumatized people have had help like that and their life improved, and I don't know what was their diagnosis, but they did talk about parts. So that is why I made sure to have a T who is willing to talk to all, that was one of the must-be-things for me. I knew Fourteen or Sami would not be co-operative at all, if not taken seriously. They would've resisted it, and it would've just caused chaos inside the system that I am allowed to get help, but others are not, or that they are not respected enough to be heard.

She has thanked everyone every time they have visited and told it's a good thing they come. To me she told that it's a sign of trust to come, especially because our parts usually do not speak to outside people as themselves at all. They come when they want to, they don't need no permission from anyone. And certainly it's not considered as rude, but a sign of trust. Defenders/protectors has not showed up, they have not felt like they need to. I am sure Sami knows what goes on in there, and he would've reacted if felt like needed. He doesn't feel he needs help, so there's no need for him to go, as he thinks it (I believe, he has not said it like that, but that's how I understand him).

She does not let me get dissociative, like just start to stare at somewhere with just images on my head and nothing moving, she keeps me present if I slip like that, but all of us are welcomed. If I was the one who went in, she will ask me back before leaving, but once when Fourteen wanted to go all by himself, he went there by himself and left by himself. She knew I was co-present and therefor he wasn't in any kind of danger.

I would resist it too, for an outsider to want control over my system and tell who is allowed to what and when. I would not let it happen, I consider it as mind control. That's my perspective to it, that's what I would say. I know I am strict with this one, but it's how I feel. It is not Ts job to control parts any way. It's their job to help the system be independent and co-operative by themselves. And I do agree Ts office should be a safe place where everyone is allowed to be who they are, and don't have to stick in the role they show to outside world normally. For us, that is OUR PROBLEM to be such narrow part of personality around people, and that's something to change, not make stronger and even more automatic. I tried that for decades already and it has not worked for us.

Every system is different and some are more open even if they don't choose it, but they just can't control it. But then it's all about learning to co-operate, not about others being rude to be around, except one. You do not pick favorites, T, you take us all or you never get to know who we are for real.
Floralie F main front
Sami M 16 defender
Lucas M 16 self care manager
Fourteen M 14 main trauma holder with DID-system:
- Leon M 4 ANP-little
Ferro M 14/24
Rami M 25 inner caretaker manager, inner protector
Anastasia F 26 inner caretaker, female sexuality
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Re: Body name

Postby fireheart » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:13 am

Thank you for sharing, Floralie.

I'm calming down a tiny bit, because I realized that working with all of us is a boundary. I'm not okay with the T wanting me to be somehow in a leadership position in the team/in therapy. So it's time to share my vision and to see whether she is willing to work with my boundary and to adapt.
This stance makes some insiders feel safer.
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