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Detached thought and 'voices'

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Detached thought and 'voices'

Postby Exploring » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:56 pm

Another question from me! I was wondering - when you communicate with others inside, do you actually hear them as you would people on the outside (just coming from the inside)? When I mentioned thoughts that don't feel like my own I called them voices as a kind of short-hand and I remember my therapist asking if I was hearing children. That got me thinking. I've had thoughts before where it was like a scared child said something, but again it was fairly unspecific, not like when you talk to an outside child who has a distinct voice. Those thoughts usually don't have distinct 'voices' in general. Sometimes it feels like my 'voice', but, like, coming from another direction (if that makes sense) and sometimes it's kinda neutral, I don't know. I was having a rough day yesterday (or the day before?) and I kind of. I don't want to say I 'heard' children's wailing. It kind of felt more like what it would feel like if I randomly thought of what wailing kids sound like? I'm not sure why I would suddenly try to think of that, but that's what it feels like. I don't really get those thoughts a lot anyway, just here and there and sometimes when I'm really stressed out, scared or dissociated. I know there's things like intrusive thoughts in singlets so maybe that's what it is? I'm probably gonna bring this up in therapy as well. I'm just afraid she could misinterpret it and start with the whole parts thing again. I don't want to accidentally lead her in that direction when I'm just trying to figure out basic stuff that probably isn't even related if she's already thinking along those lines.
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Re: Detached thought and 'voices'

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:13 pm

Exploring wrote:I'm probably gonna bring this up in therapy as well. I'm just afraid she could misinterpret it and start with the whole parts thing again. I don't want to accidentally lead her in that direction when I'm just trying to figure out basic stuff that probably isn't even related if she's already thinking along those lines.


Sounds like you have some very upset and sad littles who are in a lot of distress. You are getting some of their scared and stressed out feelings coming through, and hearing them as well. That's pretty common. I remember telling my T that it felt like someone inside was just crying all the time.

Systems can communicate internally with voices, or "loud thoughts," or images, or visualizing words, or with feelings. Those are all common in DID.

I had to laugh about your worry that your T would "start with the whole parts thing again." Clearly she has heard and seen enough to be pretty sure that you have parts. Do you feel like she wants you to have parts, or is just accurately seeing what is there?
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Re: Detached thought and 'voices'

Postby Exploring » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:31 pm

TheGangsAllHere wrote:Sounds like you have some very upset and sad littles who are in a lot of distress. You are getting some of their scared and stressed out feelings coming through, and hearing them as well. That's pretty common. I remember telling my T that it felt like someone inside was just crying all the time.


That makes sense. But, like, wouldn't I need to actually hear them? Like I said, it's more like the thought of crying children that I hear. Like if someone told me "imagine what a child crying sounds like right now", just with no prompt. I feel like everyone can get that. (This isn't to invalidate what you said or question what you know which is probably more than I do, it's more, like. I don't actually know what it's like tbh. I think I may be overthinking.)

TheGangsAllHere wrote:I had to laugh about your worry that your T would "start with the whole parts thing again." Clearly she has heard and seen enough to be pretty sure that you have parts. Do you feel like she wants you to have parts, or is just accurately seeing what is there?


I think she wants me to have parts. But then sometimes when I think about it or learn things about parts I can at least see why she would think that and get that based on things I say. It's probably still wrong, but sometimes I can at least see why she'd keep an eye out for it. I remember at our first appointment she asked me several questions to check for time loss (when I mentioned the detached thoughts) and things like that and I don't really fit the blacking out, being called by different names, finding strange things in my possesions ones so she initially said I didn't have to worry about it. It's only later that she started mentioning it sometimes after I'd tell her stuff (like slipping up using first person plural, feeling like different people, watching myself do things I don't wanna do and such). But it's like - I feel like if this was more than a phase or moods or strange PTSD or something I'd have noticed things? Or someone else would have. There's nothing concrete. Most of these things I only have on and off, so not super regularly. And then sometimes in therapy she asks me, like, "Is there any reaction inside" and it's like *insert tumble weed in the desert* because there is nothing and I feel so awkward and embarrassed. Like, most of the time it's just me. Like, except sometimes when it's not lol, but Idk. I'm confused. Does that sound weird? How would I even know if a therapist just wants you to have a thing?

Thank you for your reply! It really means a lot to me!
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Re: Detached thought and 'voices'

Postby raptureblues » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:14 pm

when alice was struggling a lot with accepting stuff, she kept confusing intrusive thoughts and us talking to her. she eventually figured out intrusive thoughts for her are either a repeated word / sentence, or they're visual. when we talk to her, it's not like she's hearing voices or anything, and it's not an intrusive thought 'cause we're talking to her normally and not trying to get her to do something. it's just using thoughts to talk. she's slowly figuring out who's talking to her based on stuff that's being said or certain ways of talking. the kids sometimes use images to speak, they'll draw something and show it to one of us.

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Re: Detached thought and 'voices'

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:12 pm

Exploring wrote:I remember at our first appointment she asked me several questions to check for time loss (when I mentioned the detached thoughts) and things like that and I don't really fit the blacking out, being called by different names, finding strange things in my possesions ones so she initially said I didn't have to worry about it. It's only later that she started mentioning it sometimes after I'd tell her stuff (like slipping up using first person plural, feeling like different people, watching myself do things I don't wanna do and such). But it's like - I feel like if this was more than a phase or moods or strange PTSD or something I'd have noticed things? Or someone else would have.


I don't have blacking out, being called by different names, or finding strange things in my possession. MOST DID systems are covert, with parts being very skillful at appearing to be one person--both inside and out. I had NO IDEA that I actually had parts (well, there were some parts that had an idea that we had parts, but it wasn't a continuous part of my awareness or identity). And my husband of 30 years had no idea that I had parts. He just thought they were "moods."

Exploring wrote:like slipping up using first person plural, feeling like different people, watching myself do things I don't wanna do and such)


This is MUCH more common than those other symptoms. I don't "want" you to have parts either, but it sounds like you have an astute therapist who knows a lot about dissociative disorders.
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Re: Detached thought and 'voices'

Postby SOHank » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:07 pm

As an example of covert like Gangs mentions, Raina will often come out while SF is playing a computer game. (I've watched her do it.) She will pause the game, show me something she found online, talk about it, etc. When she is done, she closes out all the other tabs, puts things back EXACTLY the way they were, and resumes the game as SF takes control again. SF has ZERO clue Raina was there.

Another would text me then immediately erase the texts. Initially causing arguments over, "I didn't send you a text." :lol:

I often get texts and calls from insiders while something "boring" is happening like waiting in line, driving long straight highways, etc. IE, SF won't notice the time is gone. :wink:

Its hard catch even if you are trained and looking for it. SF's T had been seeing her for 8 months, has specific DID training, expected to see others, and was right at the edge ruling it out when Emma talked to her... It was shortly after our tenth anniversary and I just thought that she got moody sometimes and was seeing the T for depression...
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Re: Detached thought and 'voices'

Postby Exploring » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:54 am

raptureblues wrote:when we talk to her, it's not like she's hearing voices or anything, and it's not an intrusive thought 'cause we're talking to her normally and not trying to get her to do something. it's just using thoughts to talk.


Thanks for sharing! I wasn't aware of this.

TheGangsAllHere wrote:MOST DID systems are covert, with parts being very skillful at appearing to be one person--both inside and out.


I understand about acting as if there's only one coherent identity on the outside, I didn't know it also applied to the inside. How does that work?

TheGangsAllHere wrote:
Exploring wrote:like slipping up using first person plural, feeling like different people, watching myself do things I don't wanna do and such)


This is MUCH more common than those other symptoms.


Why aren't they talked about as much if they're more common? :o Most descriptions only mention blackouts and such. Is it because blackouts, being called different names etc. is more noticeable from the outside?

TheGangsAllHere wrote:I don't "want" you to have parts either, but it sounds like you have an astute therapist who knows a lot about dissociative disorders.


I feel reassured and disgruntled at this at the same time lol.

SOHank wrote:As an example of covert like Gangs mentions, Raina will often come out while SF is playing a computer game. (I've watched her do it.) She will pause the game, show me something she found online, talk about it, etc. When she is done, she closes out all the other tabs, puts things back EXACTLY the way they were, and resumes the game as SF takes control again. SF has ZERO clue Raina was there.


That is clever! :o

SOHank wrote:Its hard catch even if you are trained and looking for it. SF's T had been seeing her for 8 months, has specific DID training, expected to see others, and was right at the edge ruling it out when Emma talked to her... It was shortly after our tenth anniversary and I just thought that she got moody sometimes and was seeing the T for depression...


:o

As much as I hate to admit it, I think the portrayal of parts in the media has affected my conceptualization of what having them looks like. And that even while I'm aware how wrong it often is!
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Re: Detached thought and 'voices'

Postby IainEtc » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:56 am

We hypothesize that 'hearing voices' in DID may include three phenomena. To understand these, we must separate the 'language' system of the brain (word formation) from the 'vocal' system (speech formation). These are separate from the 'auditory' system (speech reception and decoding).

First, both the language and vocal systems are activated by a part and speech is performed that anyone inside or outside the body might hear as normal speech.

Second, one part may activate the language system while another is activating the auditory system in such a way that one part experiences word formation ('speaking') and another part word reception ('hearing') while anyone outside the body would not hear any speech since the vocal system is not activated.

Third, and we consider this quite common, the language system is activated by a part in such a way that another part is aware of words being formed, but without the experience of 'hearing' them. For example, a host might become aware that another part's ideas are moving from thoughts into words in the language system and experience this as 'hearing voices' without the words being expressed vocally or 'heard' through the auditory system. The host is experiencing the brain's system for language formation being under the control of another part (just as they might with a finger or hand) but without the vocal or auditory systems coming into use. This could account for hosts reporting they 'know what other parts are saying' without 'hearing' them.

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Re: Detached thought and 'voices'

Postby Exploring » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:31 am

IainEtc wrote:The host is experiencing the brain's system for language formation being under the control of another part (just as they might with a finger or hand) but without the vocal or auditory systems coming into use. This could account for hosts reporting they 'know what other parts are saying' without 'hearing' them.

Morgan


This makes so much sense! Idk about the science etc. behind it, but comparing it to another body part / function being controlled makes it more tangible, hence easier to understand, for me. Thanks so much, Morgan!
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Re: Detached thought and 'voices'

Postby Una+ » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:47 pm

Hello Exploring. I am not going comment on whether you personally have DID or whether you "hear" voices. My comments are general, responding to common assumptions made by posters and likely also readers here; my comments are not directed at you personally.

Experiencing a so-called ego-alien verbal thought is, by most expert definitions, not hearing voices.

Hearing voices is not a diagnostic symptom of DID. That is because most people who hear voices do not have DID. In fact, most people who hear voices have no mental health disorder; they are not dysfunctional and not in severe distress.

Many people who are formally diagnosed with and treated for DID do not hear voices, at least not at first. We hear voices only after we learn to establish internal communication. We hear voices instead of blacking out and losing time and so on, and arguably hearing voices is a big step on our journey to wellness.

Exploring, if you feel you are unwell, I wish you a successful journey to your own wellness and may I suggest you consult a professional?
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