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SO Reading our Journal (again)

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Re: SO Reading our Journal (again)

Postby Zor » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:13 pm

SOHank wrote:I really like Rebecca's idea if there is a way to implement it without "upsetting the apple cart". Are you internally aware of some of them enough they could talk "through" you. You stay out, but relay the conversation. Perhaps that would allay some fears... Maybe do a jigsaw puzzle and switch in and out for a few minutes at a time???

Maybe when Pixie and I have mutual internal communication. It's sporadic right now, and only when I'm out... and I've had just a few instances of co-consciousness when she's out- brief moments at that. So we need to work on that and figure out that first, I think. Then, maybe, this could be viable.


SOHank wrote:I can relate to your wife on that. I still struggle sometimes when I think about it. They are all Sunflower and none of them are. They make up a system and can influence and co influence the body. I can see their influence often even when it is Sunflower who is OUT. They are together but separate. It makes pronouns tricky… Even things like should I consider the system “Sunflower’s system” or “the Sunflower system”… Eventually I take a step back and think, “they are important and I care about and support all of them” and let go of the specific mechanics of the “structure” and just let it be whatever it is.

Acceptance can be a lot easier than understanding. Several people we know are accepting and sympathetic. But their understanding level is along the lines of "eventually everyone will be glued back together right”. Asking how long until its “fixed”. When I explain that this takes a long time and isn’t about “fixing” as it is processing the trauma, cooperation between parts, working together, that they may always be separate, and that that is okay, they start to get confused. With the medical marvels available, I think it confuses people when they see there are limits to what it can “treat”.


Ah the "fixed" and "get better" remarks... we know those well. :?
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Re: SO Reading our Journal (again)

Postby raptureblues » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:47 pm

Zor wrote:I think some of this is b/c she DOES feel shut out and in the dark, confused, scared, and even angry still... all valid things to feel... but a large part of this is that she still sees "them" as "parts of me" rather than pieces that make up who we are, me included, as a whole. I showed her a system map Pixie had drawn out at one point, and she thought it was add the "heart" representing the "whole" had lines coming off to all parts- including ME. She asked "shouldn't you be the heart" or "in the heart" maybe... but she, like the doctor, didn't consider how THEY (the others) see me... how we co-exist as part of a single whole, rather than them a lesser part of ME.
She didn't seem to accept it entirely but didn't deny/reject it either. I am hoping that, and the book she's read the "SO chapter" of, and the willingness to read the other one, will help kind of open the door a little and get her to consider a little differently all of this. THAT would be a huge step and huge help for us.


I am enlisting Alice's help here as she better understands this than I do.

- Charles

hope it's okay for me to reply / add to this. i guess a lot of people don't really understand how this kind of stuff works, which makes sense. it took me a long time to even slightly accept that the others are just as real as me and that i am just as much an alter as they are. i guess she's having to reconcile that where she's seen you as a singular person all this time, you haven't been, and maybe she's looking back on certain things and wondering if it was you who was present for that or not. i guess she'll have to reconcile and process that somehow.

Zor wrote:I am trying to figure out how to share more with her, I WANT to... but there's a lot of fear and even shame to overcome- even with her- about this. I'm still struggling with it myself, and my writings (my parts) are extensions of my feelings and thoughts... they are as much internal as my inner thoughts. For the others, I need that to be secure for them to feel safe sharing and opening up- and I am trying to get her to understand that.
Once she can get past her anger towards and perception of the others, I think that will come a lot easier. For now, at least, she's still in the denial/anger stage and not letting that go. That NEEDS to happen first- and it's been a long time since she found out- but every week with our home Bible study group it's a reminder (we're not at the church we'd been attending when this all came out, for example), and it's cost us a lot in terms of social life activity and friendships... that's a constant reminder. She's scared even her parents would freak out and not understand and quit coming around as often...


i can really relate to that. it's been easier with my partner because they're also part of a system, so they really get this, but telling one of my closest friends was so hard and gave me a really bad denial breakdown after because i kept thinking she wouldn't see me the same, she'd find it weird, she'd be scared or angry or upset, she wouldn't understand. it's such a private thing and sharing it feels so vulnerable and scary.

i guess the thing is - does everyone have to know? your wife knowing is important, but do her parents have to know? do her friends have to know? i feel it should be based off 1) how much you and your system genuinely want or feel comfortable sharing it with others /and/ 2) how much an individual person needs to know.

i haven't told the friends i see on a weekly basis because i know they wouldn't really get it. i've been able to hide it so far. one of my best friends knows because i felt comfortable telling her and i was having a hard time hiding it when she saw me one particular weekend. i think your wife maybe feels like accepting this means she has to tell the whole world maybe? or that by not telling other people that it'd be this big dirty secret or something? i'm only guessing so sorry if i'm way off the mark.

Zor wrote:Those are valid fears- some I share, too. In fact, that's a HUGE PART of what makes it HARD to tell her some parts of some things. Given her continuing negative view of some of us, it's hard to NOT fear sharing more and that possible rejection- like many of the people I know and even she reminds me we have to be concerned with rejecting me.
It's a constant concern and there IS a sense of shame even with this. It's not logical or rational, I get that, but it exists anyway. Not that that should get between spouses, but this has shaken more than just my life... it's shaken everything about me that I've known, my entire sense of self-awareness, self-identity, etc. It's ALL been horribly shaken and I don't even know yet where that will all settle out and fall out into. It's still a mystery to me... so much about the others I don't know, in an interpersonal and connected way... so much about myself I don't know (both singly me, and collectively all of us "me"). So there's a lot to process and sometimes I NEED it private to just extend my thoughts, and I HOPE she can understand that once she begins to see past the limited scope she's allowed herself to see so far.


i can understand that. i think that's where the line needs to be drawn with what you'd share in therapy, or on here perhaps, and what you'd tell your wife or other friends who know. sometimes there are personal feelings you can't share because someone would take it personally, or would misinterpret it, or take that feeling and use it to validate something that they think or feel.

it's a really difficult thing, realising this kind of stuff. it took me an entire year to even remotely try and deal with all of this stuff because i couldn't accept it. i still find it hard, but we're trying to work as a team now, which is helping a little. you have a right to privacy and feelings you don't want to share. there's so much to process and it's easier to explain things when you yourself understand it. sometimes you can work through stuff with certain people and it helps, but sometimes it just makes it more confusing.

i really hope things go okay. it sounds really tough.

- alice
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Re: SO Reading our Journal (again)

Postby Zor » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:58 pm

Trying to reply in parts- hope it works out. ;)

raptureblues wrote:hope it's okay for me to reply / add to this. i guess a lot of people don't really understand how this kind of stuff works, which makes sense. it took me a long time to even slightly accept that the others are just as real as me and that i am just as much an alter as they are. i guess she's having to reconcile that where she's seen you as a singular person all this time, you haven't been, and maybe she's looking back on certain things and wondering if it was you who was present for that or not. i guess she'll have to reconcile and process that somehow.


Of course it's ok you replied and added to this! :)

I, too, struggle with the idea they are more than "part of ME"... that we're all part of a whole together and I'm not "more" than them or something. It's so alien to what I've known of my life, my singular sense of self for most of my life. I can understand why she has trouble reconciling it- since I still do. I am sure she is questioning things, too- she's asked about this or that oddity I do, if it's me or "one of the others". Mostly related to my OCD habits.

raptureblues wrote:i can really relate to that. it's been easier with my partner because they're also part of a system, so they really get this, but telling one of my closest friends was so hard and gave me a really bad denial breakdown after because i kept thinking she wouldn't see me the same, she'd find it weird, she'd be scared or angry or upset, she wouldn't understand. it's such a private thing and sharing it feels so vulnerable and scary.


So a few of my closest friends know already- mostly b/c they were part of the disclosure or around immediately afterwards and would need to know why I suddenly wasn't at church, for example. There was a measure of necessity, for VERY FEW PEOPLE to know.

raptureblues wrote:i guess the thing is - does everyone have to know? your wife knowing is important, but do her parents have to know? do her friends have to know? i feel it should be based off 1) how much you and your system genuinely want or feel comfortable sharing it with others /and/ 2) how much an individual person needs to know.

i haven't told the friends i see on a weekly basis because i know they wouldn't really get it. i've been able to hide it so far. one of my best friends knows because i felt comfortable telling her and i was having a hard time hiding it when she saw me one particular weekend. i think your wife maybe feels like accepting this means she has to tell the whole world maybe? or that by not telling other people that it'd be this big dirty secret or something? i'm only guessing so sorry if i'm way off the mark.


I DON'T intend to tell many people- I was mostly speaking those that already know SOMETHING but not enough or very well. It's hard to find understanding with them with what they know being so limited. Most of those I would tell more are those around me that have seen/experienced odd moments or "out" times of others- mostly without understanding it even since knowing about us... I want to clear up misconceptions and help the understand better- but in a general sense, I've got ZERO interest in public disclosure kind of informing people.

raptureblues wrote:i can understand that. i think that's where the line needs to be drawn with what you'd share in therapy, or on here perhaps, and what you'd tell your wife or other friends who know. sometimes there are personal feelings you can't share because someone would take it personally, or would misinterpret it, or take that feeling and use it to validate something that they think or feel.

it's a really difficult thing, realising this kind of stuff. it took me an entire year to even remotely try and deal with all of this stuff because i couldn't accept it. i still find it hard, but we're trying to work as a team now, which is helping a little. you have a right to privacy and feelings you don't want to share. there's so much to process and it's easier to explain things when you yourself understand it. sometimes you can work through stuff with certain people and it helps, but sometimes it just makes it more confusing.

i really hope things go okay. it sounds really tough.


I am working on trying to figure out the line between home, therapy, and everything else... it's a nightmare at times. :?

Thanks for your input and help. I do appreciate the sharing. It's more a help than you realize. :)
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Re: SO Reading our Journal (again)

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:35 pm

Zor wrote:Given her continuing negative view of some of us, it's hard to NOT fear sharing more and that possible rejection- like many of the people I know and even she reminds me we have to be concerned with rejecting me.
It's a constant concern and there IS a sense of shame even with this. It's not logical or rational, I get that, but it exists anyway. Not that that should get between spouses, but this has shaken more than just my life... it's shaken everything about me that I've known, my entire sense of self-awareness, self-identity, etc. It's ALL been horribly shaken and I don't even know yet where that will all settle out and fall out into.


I have a lot of difficulty sharing things with my husband, and he has been far more accepting and supportive than your wife. The parts have a big fear of rejection--they think he prefers the main one who is physical and affectionate--the one he recognizes the most as his wife. I think these are common issues.

But one aspect of this that is getting less attention, I think, is that you (collectively) suffered trauma, for many years, starting at a very young age, and that is the reason for this. It seems like your wife is very focused on things being "wrong" with you as opposed to things having been done to you to cause this.

Zor wrote:The big problem with just turning over control for a long time- she already expresses discomfort with them being out and around, dealing one on one with them... and stated the other day her biggest fear is literally something like what you describe happening... me being gone and one of them being here, she said Pixie b/c she's out the most and most vocal of them at this point... but the idea of being married to and living with Pixie is something she's very concerned about and doesn't WANT to do. It would absolutely push her away, by her own admission...


But she is ALREADY married to and living with Pixie--and everyone else as well. That's what she needs to understand. They are THERE while she is interacting with you. Can you plan for her to have a "visit" with Pixie, for a specific length of time--maybe to have tea or something? People are always more frightened of the unknown.
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Re: SO Reading our Journal (again)

Postby raptureblues » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:21 am

Zor wrote:Of course it's ok you replied and added to this! :)

I, too, struggle with the idea they are more than "part of ME"... that we're all part of a whole together and I'm not "more" than them or something. It's so alien to what I've known of my life, my singular sense of self for most of my life. I can understand why she has trouble reconciling it- since I still do. I am sure she is questioning things, too- she's asked about this or that oddity I do, if it's me or "one of the others". Mostly related to my OCD habits.


just wanted to check! charles was happy to reply but he feels he lacks the personal experience to give proper advice.

it really is difficult to try and deal with that kind of thing. i've tried dealing with it by just... not looking at the past. paying attention to the moments where i know i'm out in the present and leaving it at that. maybe in the future i can try and sort out how i feel about the past. i think it's good when someone shows an interest in whether something indicates your behaviour or someone else from your system, but i guess it depends on context. my therapist says "oh, just then you were sat like jones" and that helps me because she's just curious about whether we'd switched or if he had poked his head out.

Zor wrote:So a few of my closest friends know already- mostly b/c they were part of the disclosure or around immediately afterwards and would need to know why I suddenly wasn't at church, for example. There was a measure of necessity, for VERY FEW PEOPLE to know.

I DON'T intend to tell many people- I was mostly speaking those that already know SOMETHING but not enough or very well. It's hard to find understanding with them with what they know being so limited. Most of those I would tell more are those around me that have seen/experienced odd moments or "out" times of others- mostly without understanding it even since knowing about us... I want to clear up misconceptions and help the understand better- but in a general sense, I've got ZERO interest in public disclosure kind of informing people.


ah i misunderstood, sorry. i think i also phrased stuff badly. i meant more whether or not your wife feels like by accepting you and your system that she has to be okay with telling people, if that makes sense. i know people who struggle with accepting things about their SO or family members because they find the concept of other people finding out really difficult - "how would i explain it, what if so-and-so stops being friends with me over this, what if my family disapprove", that kinda thing - and maybe it'd be easier if she knew that you want to keep it as private as possible, but not because it's some bad or shameful thing. i hope that makes more sense, sorry for the confusion.

Zor wrote:I am working on trying to figure out the line between home, therapy, and everything else... it's a nightmare at times. :?

Thanks for your input and help. I do appreciate the sharing. It's more a help than you realize. :)


it really is a nightmare. i keep remembering something that BeccaBee said in another thread so i'm gonna quote it here (it's from this thread):

BeccaBee wrote:so I always feel ashamed of my secret self(ves). and like I'm so different from everyone else. so overwhelmed with my secrets. you know what I'm talking about...those really really deep skeletons in the closet. and you know my multiplicity secret.

but I was thinking about how actually everybody has secret sides to themselves. and a face they show to the world. or faces.

so it's actually ok to have my private sides. and my secrets. everybody does.


i'm trying to remember more that it's okay to live in this way, it's not shameful or bad that i'm multiple and that most people don't know about it. that's okay.

i'm glad sharing and talking helps!

- alice
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Re: SO Reading our Journal (again)

Postby Zor » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:38 pm

TheGangsAllHere wrote:I have a lot of difficulty sharing things with my husband, and he has been far more accepting and supportive than your wife. The parts have a big fear of rejection--they think he prefers the main one who is physical and affectionate--the one he recognizes the most as his wife. I think these are common issues.

But one aspect of this that is getting less attention, I think, is that you (collectively) suffered trauma, for many years, starting at a very young age, and that is the reason for this. It seems like your wife is very focused on things being "wrong" with you as opposed to things having been done to you to cause this.


That is hard to talk about b/c I don't exactly know what it was. Even Pixie, who was around from the beginning she says, barely remembers anything about it. The best I can figure from nightmares, Pixie's memories, and Mom's comments, leads me to think something my pervert uncle did when he lived with us somewhere between 3-4 or 9-12 months (depending on which comment of Mom's is accurate) when I was about 3'ish.
After that, my dad's drinking, Mom's staying out with friends and doing anything to avoid being home, and their fighting often over it all... including once where I saw Dad's hand all bloody and cut up b/c in a drunk argument he put it through glass on our china hutch (I came down and saw his hand covered in blood after hearing the fighting- and I'm unsure if I SAW the hand go through or just, memory fails and nightmares confuse).

TheGangsAllHere wrote:But she is ALREADY married to and living with Pixie--and everyone else as well. That's what she needs to understand. They are THERE while she is interacting with you. Can you plan for her to have a "visit" with Pixie, for a specific length of time--maybe to have tea or something? People are always more frightened of the unknown.


That's hard for her to reconcile, to accept- heck it's hard for ME to reconcile still, too. And "inside" Pixie and Angel, and Kitten and Kaleb, are all paired off together- in the narrative they told me (and others) they are married and stuff. I am unsure how that works and if there's significance there or if it was some subconscious act by me/them trying to understand the relationship I was in with Connie when that started (which was after we got married)... IDK. It's all so confusing.

I might need to see if, once she opens up a little, she would be willing to do that. I am HOPING that reading a little from these DID books will help her get past the anger and rejection and start to look to be tolerant, which would be a step towards acceptance.
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Re: SO Reading our Journal (again)

Postby Zor » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:27 pm

raptureblues wrote:just wanted to check! charles was happy to reply but he feels he lacks the personal experience to give proper advice.

it really is difficult to try and deal with that kind of thing. i've tried dealing with it by just... not looking at the past. paying attention to the moments where i know i'm out in the present and leaving it at that. maybe in the future i can try and sort out how i feel about the past. i think it's good when someone shows an interest in whether something indicates your behaviour or someone else from your system, but i guess it depends on context. my therapist says "oh, just then you were sat like jones" and that helps me because she's just curious about whether we'd switched or if he had poked his head out.


The small notices are good and bad... sometimes I am unsure myself if it's me or them, or some sort of combination or "bleedover" where one of us do it, so we all have picked it up or whatever. The fact that she's considering it means she's watching- the down side is that she's watching. She considers it troublesome still...

raptureblues wrote:ah i misunderstood, sorry. i think i also phrased stuff badly. i meant more whether or not your wife feels like by accepting you and your system that she has to be okay with telling people, if that makes sense. i know people who struggle with accepting things about their SO or family members because they find the concept of other people finding out really difficult - "how would i explain it, what if so-and-so stops being friends with me over this, what if my family disapprove", that kinda thing - and maybe it'd be easier if she knew that you want to keep it as private as possible, but not because it's some bad or shameful thing. i hope that makes more sense, sorry for the confusion.



The entire thing means she (and I) has to relearn who I am- and that's got to be scary for her. It's got be confusing... and I can understand the anger, particularly added to the confusion- it's cost us... friends, congregation, relationships, caused a TON of upheaval and emotional pain... It's scary and confusing. I just hope she can come around to accept and help us get better- in a more positive and cooperative living rather than so scattered and chaotic.


raptureblues wrote:it really is a nightmare. i keep remembering something that BeccaBee said in another thread so i'm gonna quote it here (it's from this thread):

BeccaBee wrote:so I always feel ashamed of my secret self(ves). and like I'm so different from everyone else. so overwhelmed with my secrets. you know what I'm talking about...those really really deep skeletons in the closet. and you know my multiplicity secret.

but I was thinking about how actually everybody has secret sides to themselves. and a face they show to the world. or faces.

so it's actually ok to have my private sides. and my secrets. everybody does.


i'm trying to remember more that it's okay to live in this way, it's not shameful or bad that i'm multiple and that most people don't know about it. that's okay.

i'm glad sharing and talking helps!

- alice


Shame is something I feel like I have to fight with every day. "What will people say if they find out?" "What if this person finds out about this part of it?" "What if they find out that the girls want clothes- will they condemn ME as a freak or something?" "What if one of them come out when others are around, even if they know- will they accept it or lose their minds over it?"
A ton of little things like this- and it all boils down to being afraid about these things, the condition/nature of our very existence. :( I am still trying to learn to cope with this, to manage it, and to not let it dominate or ruin my (when I'm "me") life...
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Re: SO Reading our Journal (again)

Postby raptureblues » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:17 am

Zor wrote:The small notices are good and bad... sometimes I am unsure myself if it's me or them, or some sort of combination or "bleedover" where one of us do it, so we all have picked it up or whatever. The fact that she's considering it means she's watching- the down side is that she's watching. She considers it troublesome still...


it's hard to tell who's doing what a lot of the time, how much it's a conscious thing or something bleeding through into the front. i didn't realise she found it troublesome, i thought it was more of a curiosity thing. i'm sorry she feels that way, that sounds really hard.

Zor wrote:The entire thing means she (and I) has to relearn who I am- and that's got to be scary for her. It's got be confusing... and I can understand the anger, particularly added to the confusion- it's cost us... friends, congregation, relationships, caused a TON of upheaval and emotional pain... It's scary and confusing. I just hope she can come around to accept and help us get better- in a more positive and cooperative living rather than so scattered and chaotic.


yeah, i can understand that. i guess with my partner, i knew from the start of our friendship 4+ years ago that they were multiple, as we knew each other online and they're selectively open about it on certain social media platforms where i followed them. with me, they had to do a little bit of relearning as i started figuring things out about the whole multiplicity thing (mainly that this has been going on for ages), and i know it was hard for them but in a different way i guess.

i think it's just... it must be so painful for you and the others, though. i get why it's hard for her, but for something that's out of your control, something that none of you chose to happen, and for her to react with anger and resentment about it... that really sucks. no matter how hard it is for her, it is and always will be harder for you and the others in your system. i mean, we're only human and feelings are never bad. actions can be bad, though, is what i'm saying. she's allowed to feel scared and angry and confused, but her actions have to be supportive of you, otherwise she's just making things harder than they need to be.

does your wife have her own therapist, or someone she can confide in? obviously open communication between you, your system, and her is important, but i feel like maybe if she vented her concerns and fears to someone that she'd maybe be able to clear her head and things wouldn't be as messy, so you guys could talk stuff through a little easier.

Zor wrote:Shame is something I feel like I have to fight with every day. "What will people say if they find out?" "What if this person finds out about this part of it?" "What if they find out that the girls want clothes- will they condemn ME as a freak or something?" "What if one of them come out when others are around, even if they know- will they accept it or lose their minds over it?"
A ton of little things like this- and it all boils down to being afraid about these things, the condition/nature of our very existence. :( I am still trying to learn to cope with this, to manage it, and to not let it dominate or ruin my (when I'm "me") life...


i know it's easy to say "it's nothing to be ashamed over", because i feel ashamed about all of this too and it's such a heavy feeling to carry around with you all the time. so much of how i've dealt with life has been to act normal, be normal, look normal. all of this throws that out the window. it's really hard having to re-frame how you see yourself and your life, especially when other people can be so judgmental and mean about it too. like, who cares if it was you wanting to wear girly clothes! men should be allowed to wear stuff like that! people are so judgmental and it makes me feel so sad. accepting this is hard enough, but it's even harder when you're surrounded by people that aren't accepting of it.

regardless of what other people think, you and the others are all real and your experiences and feelings are valid. acceptance will come in time, and all you can do is slowly work through stuff in little steps and find a way to make things feel manageable. i really hope things get better for you. we and everyone else here are always here to support you guys!

- alice
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Re: SO Reading our Journal (again)

Postby Zor » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:59 pm

raptureblues wrote:it's hard to tell who's doing what a lot of the time, how much it's a conscious thing or something bleeding through into the front. i didn't realise she found it troublesome, i thought it was more of a curiosity thing. i'm sorry she feels that way, that sounds really hard.


That's the truth! Sometimes even _I_ wonder if it was ME or someone else, or a "bleed over" of someone else. :?

raptureblues wrote:yeah, i can understand that. i guess with my partner, i knew from the start of our friendship 4+ years ago that they were multiple, as we knew each other online and they're selectively open about it on certain social media platforms where i followed them. with me, they had to do a little bit of relearning as i started figuring things out about the whole multiplicity thing (mainly that this has been going on for ages), and i know it was hard for them but in a different way i guess.

i think it's just... it must be so painful for you and the others, though. i get why it's hard for her, but for something that's out of your control, something that none of you chose to happen, and for her to react with anger and resentment about it... that really sucks. no matter how hard it is for her, it is and always will be harder for you and the others in your system. i mean, we're only human and feelings are never bad. actions can be bad, though, is what i'm saying. she's allowed to feel scared and angry and confused, but her actions have to be supportive of you, otherwise she's just making things harder than they need to be.

does your wife have her own therapist, or someone she can confide in? obviously open communication between you, your system, and her is important, but i feel like maybe if she vented her concerns and fears to someone that she'd maybe be able to clear her head and things wouldn't be as messy, so you guys could talk stuff through a little easier.


I wish we had that luxury of knowing from the beginning- so my wife would have known before we married, before we got into a serious relationship... signs were there, of course, but neither of us ever even thought of this- in fact, until just before being formally diagnosed as dissociative, I had never even HEARD of this sort of thing, much less that it was a legitimate clinically diagnosed reality for so many of us. IDK if it would have run her off, if she would have accepted it, and if so, if things would be different or easier today... but the element of surprise, the shock of it, wouldn't exist. IDK... it's all so massive and overwhelming at times still.

raptureblues wrote:i know it's easy to say "it's nothing to be ashamed over", because i feel ashamed about all of this too and it's such a heavy feeling to carry around with you all the time. so much of how i've dealt with life has been to act normal, be normal, look normal. all of this throws that out the window. it's really hard having to re-frame how you see yourself and your life, especially when other people can be so judgmental and mean about it too. like, who cares if it was you wanting to wear girly clothes! men should be allowed to wear stuff like that! people are so judgmental and it makes me feel so sad. accepting this is hard enough, but it's even harder when you're surrounded by people that aren't accepting of it.

regardless of what other people think, you and the others are all real and your experiences and feelings are valid. acceptance will come in time, and all you can do is slowly work through stuff in little steps and find a way to make things feel manageable. i really hope things get better for you. we and everyone else here are always here to support you guys!

- alice


First, thanks Alice, for all this input. I appreciate more than I can ever say...

as for Shame, I'll adapt a comment from Yoshiki about his physical pain playing drums and piano (he's been told to stop both but he loves his art and work too much)... adapting "pain" for "shame"... "Shame has been my friend, my enemy, my lover."

And I truly feel this. It's intimately connected to me. I can't escape it or its embrace. It's there in the morning, there at night, every moment between. It knows every intimate detail of me, and all of us, not a single moment of our life is without it... at times it's a means of protection, keeping me/us hidden and like a companion (a friend if you will)... yet the way I feel about it, it's unhealthy, makes me feel horrible (clearly and enemy)... and so intimate, like a lover...

Trying to reframe or redefine how I see myself is so hard. It takes YEARS from about 10-12 until 18-20 for us to define who we are... I've had less than a year following a VERY SUDDEN destruction of that years-long creation, which I'd lived with and accepted for decades... and I have no idea who I am, who WE are... it's terrifying and painful... it's so.... unsettling.
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