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Ego

Postby Magnesiumchloride » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:17 pm

Hey. Just wanted to know more about this topic. How does the ego in people with DID work actually? Do every alter has ego, superego and id as well? Or alter is already an ego by itself.

Does anyone know anything related to this topic? Thank you. :)
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Re: Ego

Postby IainEtc » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:31 pm

Hi,

A lot of people on this forum are working on making our lives safer and better. It would really help if you'd let us know something about yourself (like do you have DID) and why you're asking (are you doing research or just interested).

Here's my answer to your question. Freud's ideas about psychology are about 100 years old now and there are some better ones these days. Maybe a different theory would be more helpful in understanding DID.

Iain
Iain - 14, Colin - 17, Evan - 7, Cody - 16, Raven, Host - the adult out front

When they say 'be yourself',
which one do they mean?
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Re: Ego

Postby Sarandipity » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:52 pm

I don't know. It's something I just started to wonder and think about myself actually.

If I hear an internal voice say something egotistical then I that voice ego. But i got told the other day - no Jane. I have a perception of the characteristics of that name so at a guess they are my internal Janes characteristics.

Now to think about your question as I'm typing so apologies if its all other the place.

Rose sees herself as maternal, she can cook, knit, make things like cards not so good at jewellery - so the perception she is motherly is definitely an ego perception and she prides herself on it. It's a workable perception ie you can tell her something isn't good for the children and if she believes it's true then you can get her to conform. So she definitely has that in her ego.

Karen sees herself as attractive, desirable and likes fashion nails etc. She knows she's of worth physically even if over weight (which she hates but the others like food so... Plus she's anorexic so we have to make her feel attractive chubby or she starves us all, size 8 after giving birth we don't think is natural) so that's her ego weakness - financial worth and attractiveness. We told her when we're old we can still look nice but really skinny old ladies are less attractive. We've been preparing her for that since teenage years. So she has a workable ego also.

Patrick likes to think he's manly but obviously we're a woman. Still he can actually hold his own in a physical fight with men so we can't knock him for that especially as he's not physically set up for it. And he won't go down without a fight. He won't hit women. He has the workable ego of "we have women in this system so what's nice for them?" because he prides himself on being a protective type. So as much as he can be a liability, he likes to get drunk and get in a fight, he's done it only a handful of times. Standing in court in a flowery dress because you smashed a pub up when they refused to serve you is an embarrassment for a woman. So that's definitely an ego weakness and thank God we're not physically male because we're pretty sure we'd be not a good male. And that's his ego weakness - insecurity if you like - he's an ahole.

Peter is more kind, probably gay, don't tell Patrick, but he's practical and can think things logically through. He's very quiet and goes with the flow so we're not sure of his ego strengths. He just said he talks to us all the time and he just had a reasonable idea of how to make better our current situation. So we'll try to listen to him more.

Mandy is our baby. About age 5 now. She's a spoilt brat. Easily bought and manipulated by the outside world so we tend to only let her see what we want her to see. Can't comment on her sense of identity or ego at the moment because she's colouring. The others have views on her but we're not interested.

We have an ego. Ours is the worst. Don't f with us because we'll f you up. We'll let someone kill this body before we back down. Which does make us incredibly dangerous to ourself mostly and that's why we're generally asleep. The twins.

So to answer this question, yes our parts have individual egos. Our collective ego is overall weak due to the conflicts. Maybe our brain just has ego conflicts and we resolve them then we'll be integrated and cured. But where's the fun in that.

Yours sincerely, Angie and Mike
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Re: Ego

Postby Magnesiumchloride » Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:20 pm

IainEtc wrote:Hi,

A lot of people on this forum are working on making our lives safer and better. It would really help if you'd let us know something about yourself (like do you have DID) and why you're asking (are you doing research or just interested).

Here's my answer to your question. Freud's ideas about psychology are about 100 years old now and there are some better ones these days. Maybe a different theory would be more helpful in understanding DID.

Iain


Hello there. I am really sorry for not making my identity clearer. Sorry about that, I didn't consider the fact that it is quite random to suddenly asks about this and I didn't explain enough about myself.

Basically, yes. I have DID. I had many problems in my life, but now, I am a lot better. My system is amazing and quite stable. So who am I? I am basically an 'inner-self helper' in my system. So I don't really act like the main one and introduce myself to other people.

My role in my system is to research about DID and help everyone in me. The reason why I ask about this ego topic, is because I am quite curious and confused about how ego works in DID. Long story short, I am doing my best to research and help my system as much as I could.

I don't have much time to post all my problems and share my thoughts in this forum because I am not always out and my host is not in the good condition now. But overall, we are a lot better, because all of us here are working together.

The stronger ones in my system allow me to think and explore more about DID. So every time, when my host or anyone in my body suffers, they can come to us (inner self-helpers/ inner therapist).

I don't have much time to research and we have reading difficulties. So that's why I wanted to just get an answer from here... sorry. My host has been suffering from DID and she is an amazing person. So, I want to do my best and help her more (I am not sure, if I am doing the right thing, but my intention is not bad) I am sorry if I was being random. Thank you for your answer!

______________________________________________________
QT (Host), Yin (Protector), Yang (Protector), Dinosaur (13 yrs kid), Ella (Inner self helper), Jackson (Angry one) and more....
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Re: Ego

Postby Magnesiumchloride » Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:51 pm

Sarandipity wrote:I don't know. It's something I just started to wonder and think about myself actually.

If I hear an internal voice say something egotistical then I that voice ego. But i got told the other day - no Jane. I have a perception of the characteristics of that name so at a guess they are my internal Janes characteristics.

Now to think about your question as I'm typing so apologies if its all other the place.

Rose sees herself as maternal, she can cook, knit, make things like cards not so good at jewellery - so the perception she is motherly is definitely an ego perception and she prides herself on it. It's a workable perception ie you can tell her something isn't good for the children and if she believes it's true then you can get her to conform. So she definitely has that in her ego.

Karen sees herself as attractive, desirable and likes fashion nails etc. She knows she's of worth physically even if over weight (which she hates but the others like food so... Plus she's anorexic so we have to make her feel attractive chubby or she starves us all, size 8 after giving birth we don't think is natural) so that's her ego weakness - financial worth and attractiveness. We told her when we're old we can still look nice but really skinny old ladies are less attractive. We've been preparing her for that since teenage years. So she has a workable ego also.

Patrick likes to think he's manly but obviously we're a woman. Still he can actually hold his own in a physical fight with men so we can't knock him for that especially as he's not physically set up for it. And he won't go down without a fight. He won't hit women. He has the workable ego of "we have women in this system so what's nice for them?" because he prides himself on being a protective type. So as much as he can be a liability, he likes to get drunk and get in a fight, he's done it only a handful of times. Standing in court in a flowery dress because you smashed a pub up when they refused to serve you is an embarrassment for a woman. So that's definitely an ego weakness and thank God we're not physically male because we're pretty sure we'd be not a good male. And that's his ego weakness - insecurity if you like - he's an ahole.

Peter is more kind, probably gay, don't tell Patrick, but he's practical and can think things logically through. He's very quiet and goes with the flow so we're not sure of his ego strengths. He just said he talks to us all the time and he just had a reasonable idea of how to make better our current situation. So we'll try to listen to him more.

Mandy is our baby. About age 5 now. She's a spoilt brat. Easily bought and manipulated by the outside world so we tend to only let her see what we want her to see. Can't comment on her sense of identity or ego at the moment because she's colouring. The others have views on her but we're not interested.

We have an ego. Ours is the worst. Don't f with us because we'll f you up. We'll let someone kill this body before we back down. Which does make us incredibly dangerous to ourself mostly and that's why we're generally asleep. The twins.

So to answer this question, yes our parts have individual egos. Our collective ego is overall weak due to the conflicts. Maybe our brain just has ego conflicts and we resolve them then we'll be integrated and cured. But where's the fun in that.

Yours sincerely, Angie and Mike


Hi Angie, Mike and friends! Thanks for your answer. We appreciate it a lot. We hope all of you can work together better.
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Re: Ego

Postby Sarandipity » Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:09 pm

We work together brilliant. We didn't get through all the crap life through at us, have fun, have qualifications coming out our ears, and be overall happy in our life without working together. "look after yourself. You're all you've got" (Karen Carpenter - who ironically died of bulimia) has been our moto since we first read that. Aligning alot of different desires, characters and ways of feeling whole, is an ongoing work of art but we have always worked together.

For example "oh no we don't want to go on holiday with our mum. It'll be awful. Hell" ummmmmm we think, wake up Patrick, tell him go have fun. By Sunday we wake up in a jail cell. We open our eyes. Realise we're in jail. First thought "thank God we haven't got to go on holiday with our mum" Patrick got a night out, he deserved one, everyone else was happy because locked up is a definite "sorry mum can't go on holiday with you, it's past my control at this point, I really wanted to come too. I got drunk, I dunno what happened but I've got court tomorrow so I definitely can't make it" Everyone was happy. We had a fine we had to pay but was well worth it. Everyone happy. Now would I have the cahoonas to do that if I was a "singular" person. Definitely not. I'd either have to go on holiday and suffer and probably have a nervous breakdown or I'd have to cut my mother out my life because she's toxic - which isn't very nice because she did give birth to me. So although sometimes the whole thing looks like a massive train wreck it suits us just fine. Our "working together" may not be everyone's idea of "working together" but trying to fit in to society or outside groups or even our family became a non-starter for us many years ago - thank the Goddess because we as an individual entity are much happier.

You work better with your parts instead of sneaking around trying to fix your system behind its back because in your opinion your "host" is suffering, maybe the host likes suffering - some people like suffering, have you asked or are you sneaking about? If you have a host then you must be a parasite. I don't like the term host.

Sorry but to tell me you hope "we work together better" is making assumptions, condescending and rude. So you got the same back with a cherry on.

Love Karen
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Re: Ego

Postby Magnesiumchloride » Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:02 pm

I am really sorry if I was being rude to you. I misunderstood some of the things you wrote and I am really sorry about that. I didn't sneak out from my system and trying to fix the system by myself... because I was told to do this and my entire system is aware that I am doing this.

Maybe I used the word 'suffering' wrongly. My host just doesn't want to deal with all these anymore so that's why she choose to give up and rest inside. I am really sorry if I offended you... I am sorry.
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Re: Ego

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:40 pm

IainEtc wrote:Here's my answer to your question. Freud's ideas about psychology are about 100 years old now and there are some better ones these days. Maybe a different theory would be more helpful in understanding DID.

Iain


I agree with this. The concept of id, ego, and superego are pretty old and creaky, and not very useful for understanding singletons, let alone people with DID. Also, remember that Freud developed his theory in part by proposing that childhood memories of sexual abuse were actually fantasies because children loved and wanted to "seduce" the opposite sex parent, and were jealous of the other parent. There's a lot of controversy about whether or not Freud himself abandoned that view in favor of believing reports by his patients of childhood abuse, but "seduction theory" as the basis of neurosis caught on and was taught for many years.
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Re: Ego

Postby Sarandipity » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:56 am

Magnesiumchloride wrote:I am really sorry if I was being rude to you. I misunderstood some of the things you wrote and I am really sorry about that. I didn't sneak out from my system and trying to fix the system by myself... because I was told to do this and my entire system is aware that I am doing this.

Maybe I used the word 'suffering' wrongly. My host just doesn't want to deal with all these anymore so that's why she choose to give up and rest inside. I am really sorry if I offended you... I am sorry.



It's ok.
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Re: Ego

Postby Floralie » Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:13 am

I agree with Iain and Gang. If you wanna understand DID, read about DID theories. It gets you way further than Freud. There's so much that has been proven wrong in Freud's theories. They are all about sex, and not even understanding what sexuality really is. I think he was mostly thinking about himself, and then understanding other people like they would have had same reasons than him. You know, he was seeing phallic symbols in everything and pretty much all was about penis. And because girls and women don't have that, they need to envy that. He really didn't understand someone can be happily female. What kind of reasoning is that? To us it sounds, it's because he himself would not have been, he decided no one can, and didn't have a clue that all people are different.

I believe he was simply unable to see anything outside his own fantasies.

Psychoanalysis doesn't really cure patients. Having anyone to listen to you does the same work than psychoanalysis. Don't waste your time in one person's opinions, while there are things that are scientifically proven, like how trauma messes up the brain, sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems, limbic system etc. AND there are theories about what that means in psychological level. Some of it is outdated as well, but way less than Freud. There are people who are actively researching trauma and who do it like science is done, not by making up theories by having a gut feeling.

For example the development of the child in Freud's opinion is not proven at all. He made theories, like oedipus complex and then told example about a case which fit to that theory. He did not prove it to be true, he just told one case where it may have occurred. And failed to tell, that there were other things in the story of that little boy he decided not to mention, like for example the fact his mom had borderline personality. What he does tell is the fact she used to threaten him with castration, if he continues masturbating. Of f*n course that boy had troubles growing up, and it was maybe not because of oedipus complex.

Or how he thought being gay male is because of the fear of vagina, and then explains how people can get so scared about it (by their mom being too strong). Like little kids would be constantly thinking about their parents genitals. They do think about genders, yes. But they do think other things as well. It's just one thing they learn among billion others. Gays are not scared of female genitals, they are simply just not interested. And how does that explain bisexuality? It shouldn't be possible at all.

Fourteen gets mad about Freud, he finds his theories disgusting and humiliating in general. The claims he made are so obnoxious and based on nothing. And Freud himself was not as bad as the freudians who came after him and "improved" his theories. (For example Freud wrote being gay is not sick, there is nothing to be cured, but that is not how people who believed his theories thought after him, as we know. Religion probably has a lot to do with attitudes of that time, but science should not be made to please other authorities.) That is exactly what is wrong with one-man-theories in general, which can't be scientifically proven. They are always build to some individual's experience and beliefs, just like many religious communities. There is someone who claims to know the truth, and there are people who will follow strong leaders.

I relate nothing Freud has written. I relate a lot what's been told in structural dissociation theory. That is when I started to understand myself. It's not perfect either, but it explains so much.

What comes to parts and how they are, some are one dimensional, only with one feeling or one memory, not able to understand what time and place it is, and when they get help with their feeling or memory, they easily integrate. It may be enough to cry one time, and they get rid of what they held, and they don't need to stay separate anymore. Some are two dimensional, they have memory or memories and feelings about trauma as well, and they still think they live when it happened, but they can be told it's over and they can learn to understand time and place better. After they no longer need to keep their secret, they can have another job so to speak. But they are not fully developed personalities with their all own traits, they can have some traits of their own, like age and gender, but they can't adapt a lot, so they can't do difficult social things like go to work or take care of children. Or parts can be three dimensional, which means they have fully developed personality. They have their own name, age, gender, sexual orientation, they are capable of having different social roles when around different people, they can be adaptable with their behavior, they have their own favorite things of everything, they have ability to have all kind of feelings etc. but have their own personality and their own ways to react. Just like any singletons.

Real parts can't be really be defined to be phase 1,2 or 3 parts, because there are no walls between how developed individuals they can be, so separating them into three categories is not a thing you can really do. Some are somewhere between. Placing them in 3 categories is just an example how different they can be from each other, it's not a real category and every part would fit perfectly into one category. People can never be categorized like that and think it would cover all. That is why there is no answers to questions like your even if I would believe in ego etc. Some parts have it, some don't.

Things need to be categorized in order for words having the same meaning to everyone who talk about it. If there would be no categories, there couldn't be spoken language. But you need to always remember categories are there only because of spoken language, they are not only options, they don't cover all, in reality there are no limits like that. Giving names to things is literally that. You call a thing with some name to be able to talk about it in the first place, but names don't have all possibilities in them. So you need to be able to understand things without the limitations of spoken language, as what they really are, something without limits and walls.
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